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Diamond stud assistance - 2/2.5 carat total weight; struggling with excellent versus fantastic

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
Hello
i enjoy reading the wonderful posts here and I’ve learned a lot.....but realize I am very dangerous (and apparently picky). I have a pair of 1 carat weight studs, one of which was my original engagement ring so it is E, VS2 with a matching friend. I wear them daily. I love the whiteness in my ears and I have smaller lobes so they look nice.

My generous husband would like to get me larger studs and we are considering something in the 2-2.5 carat weight total range. I realize these are going to be in my ears, so they don’t need to be super high color/less although I am color sensitive. I’m making myself crazy trying to dig through stones on blue Nile and Whiteflash. I thought I’d be ok with SI1 or SI2 but some of the stones look like they’ve been run over by a car :P2 at least in the super magnified pics and images.

I would like to keep the budget to around $13k with some flexibility. If I could get a lovely pair for a little less, I might be able to spring for a diamond bangle I’ve been eyeing, too (I’ve been saving up gifts for a few years and this is a big anniversary year as well).

I would be ever so grateful for help or guidance. I’m embarrassed to say that I’ve made more than 1 vendor and a brick and mortar store crazy, I’m sure. A local jeweler is trying to push a pair of hearts on fire my way (1.6 total weight, H color, $12K) but I’m hesitant because I was hoping For 2 carat total.

thanks for any guidance -
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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Are you trading, selling or keeping the original stones? Asking as you may be limited to certain vendors if you trade up. That said, it may be a smart way to stretch your dollars.

Am I interpreting correct that size and color are your primary drivers?

Remember carat weight is a function of length * width * depth * 0.006. The important part being the depth.

In a traditional ideal cut stone such as your e-ring you may want to focus slightly different on the "personality" of the stones.

With ear rings you may want to consider a larger table and shallower depth. While this isn't always preferred for an e-ring due to obstruction (diamond goes dark as you stand over it to view it and block the light source), it is great for earrings as people don't hover over you the same way, well except maybe your husband.

The advantage is you get a little more size (spread) for the same carat weight as you are pushing the diamond weight out as opposed to down (depth). Also, with lower crowns you get a little more white light return as opposed to big bold rainbow flashes. In a well cut stone with these type of proportions you will get edge to edge brightness and the bonus of making it appear as white as possible which helps with your desire for high color.

If you are shopping locally I highly encourage you to buy an ASET scope and learn how to read the images (not too hard) as most places won't have this scope and simply sell you on it being GIA XXX, blah, blah, blah. I'm cool with a XXX stone but the ASET will help you confirm if a stone has leakage or not. Harsh reality is a bunch of stones passed along as "excellent" is far from it. The ASET gives you an easy way to decipher them.


Additionally when shopping you can normally find cheaper prices with BN and similar drop shippers (virtual inventory). The disadvantage with most is no ASET images so you have to start relying on reported proportions, etc. Not impossible as we do it all the time but it can be more time consuming and frustrating.

Also, do you foresee a future upgrade? If so, it may make more sense to check out vendors with a more generous upgrade policy.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
6,307
No sign of tire tread on these beauties :love:


I think getting exactly at/over 2ctw in your budget in H or higher will be a challenge if you’re aiming for ‘perfection’ and ideal/super ideal cut. Any diamond can look like a hot mess (clarity-wise) when magnified on a computer screen, but IRL you may never see those inclusions, and it’s likely no one will see them when on your ears ... but if it’s a mind clean issue, then you need to prioritize what’s more important. Also, keep in mind that an ideal/super ideal diamond will appear larger (due to better edge-to-edge brightness) than one not cut as well.

It’d be helpful if you prioritize your preferences, and specify if your $13K budget includes the stud settings or not. If it does, what type of setting & metal? For example: Budget (max X incl platinum martini settings); Clarity - eye clean & no lower than X; Carat/Size - no less than X tcw; Color - no lower than X; Cut - Ideal/Super Ideal, XXX, etc. Also, do you think you may upgrade these studs down the road again? If so, it’d be wise to go with a vendor that provides a generous upgrade policy vs. one that doesn’t offer upgrades and/or will require you to spend 2x the initial cost.
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,889
The HCA search brings up D-E/VS candidates [>1ct, <$7K] to sift through. G/VS or SI lets some 1.2 cts in. There are many deeper stones, so the .2cts may not be substantial for anything but price.
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
No sign of tire tread on these beauties :love:


I think getting exactly at/over 2ctw in your budget in H or higher will be a challenge if you’re aiming for ‘perfection’ and ideal/super ideal cut. Any diamond can look like a hot mess (clarity-wise) when magnified on a computer screen, but IRL you may never see those inclusions, and it’s likely no one will see them when on your ears ... but if it’s a mind clean issue, then you need to prioritize what’s more important. Also, keep in mind that an ideal/super ideal diamond will appear larger (due to better edge-to-edge brightness) than one not cut as well.

It’d be helpful if you prioritize your preferences, and specify if your $13K budget includes the stud settings or not. If it does, what type of setting & metal? For example: Budget (max X incl platinum martini settings); Clarity - eye clean & no lower than X; Carat/Size - no less than X tcw; Color - no lower than X; Cut - Ideal/Super Ideal, XXX, etc. Also, do you think you may upgrade these studs down the road again? If so, it’d be wise to go with a vendor that provides a generous upgrade policy vs. one that doesn’t offer upgrades and/or will require you to spend 2x the initial cost.

Thank you so much for your prompt responses! I should’ve specified:

cut is most important and the budget could go up a bit. I don’t anticipate further upgrades and the setting would be a simple white gold martini I think. I’m really trying to get the sparkliest pair without overkill on color or clarity. I’ve heard I can face up white if well cut and that SI1 is plenty for ear studs. I think I’m looking for biggest bang for rye buck without going over the top (maybe I’m looking for unicorns and I need to just spend the $16-20k and enjoy).

Thank you so much for any guidance and feedback.
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
Thank you so much for your prompt responses! I should’ve specified:

cut is most important and the budget could go up a bit. I don’t anticipate further upgrades and the setting would be a simple white gold martini I think. I’m really trying to get the sparkliest pair without overkill on color or clarity. I’ve heard I can face up white if well cut and that SI1 is plenty for ear studs. I think I’m looking for biggest bang for rye buck without going over the top (maybe I’m looking for unicorns and I need to just spend the $16-20k and enjoy).

Thank you so much for any guidance and feedback.

@the_mother_thing those are gorgeous! Might have a winner!!!! Thank you so much!!!!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 25, 2014
Messages
8,228
There are 39 AGS000 stones in the search engine right now with parameters that might suit:

And there are 655 GIA XXX stones with PS-recommended parameters and an HCA score of Excellent (so top-notch light performance):

Many are SI1 so will need checking out in video/pictures, but you can get to 2.5ctw if you're lucky, maybe even more than that if you extend to G colour.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
6,307
@the_mother_thing those are gorgeous! Might have a winner!!!! Thank you so much!!!!

I think either of the pairs I posted would be a great choice and nice size jump from your current pair (if I read correctly, the current pair are 1ct total weight, correct?). You’d also be getting in with a respected vendor offering a generous upgrade program, so if you wanted to upgrade again at a later date, just spend $1 more.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
Hello
i enjoy reading the wonderful posts here and I’ve learned a lot.....but realize I am very dangerous (and apparently picky). I have a pair of 1 carat weight studs, one of which was my original engagement ring so it is E, VS2 with a matching friend. I wear them daily. I love the whiteness in my ears and I have smaller lobes so they look nice.

My generous husband would like to get me larger studs and we are considering something in the 2-2.5 carat weight total range. I realize these are going to be in my ears, so they don’t need to be super high color/less although I am color sensitive. I’m making myself crazy trying to dig through stones on blue Nile and Whiteflash. I thought I’d be ok with SI1 or SI2 but some of the stones look like they’ve been run over by a car :P2 at least in the super magnified pics and images.

I would like to keep the budget to around $13k with some flexibility. If I could get a lovely pair for a little less, I might be able to spring for a diamond bangle I’ve been eyeing, too (I’ve been saving up gifts for a few years and this is a big anniversary year as well).

I would be ever so grateful for help or guidance. I’m embarrassed to say that I’ve made more than 1 vendor and a brick and mortar store crazy, I’m sure. A local jeweler is trying to push a pair of hearts on fire my way (1.6 total weight, H color, $12K) but I’m hesitant because I was hoping For 2 carat total.

thanks for any guidance -

I assume you're using the "Build your own Earrings" feature on BN's site? I went through a similar journey last month trying to find a good pair of matching earrings. It is difficult, but not impossible if you've got time and patience.

BN's site is ideal for searching for pairings because you can filter by table and depth, unlike James Allen which oddly doesn't have this functionality for pairings. Alternatively you can just find two single loose diamonds manually, but that is extremely time consuming.

This was the pair I ended up with on Blue Nile - G/SI1, literally identical spread and proportions. I couldn't be happier with how they ended up - perfectly eye clean and sparkle like crazy. At your size range, SI1 is perfectly doable but you will have to be more careful to make sure it's eye clean. If you want to err on the safe side, perhaps target VS2.


I saved a lot over what I would've paid for similar spec stones on Whiteflash - I only bring that up because it sounds like you are budget conscious like me. The other benefit of BN is that all of their studs come standard with Protektor backings which in my opinion are the highest quality backing you can get. You will definitely want those if you're rocking 2+ TCW. I've come across several pairings like these on BN, but I suspect at your size range there will be much fewer options.

The other thing I did that might help you is I called James Allen and basically asked them to do all the legwork for me since I couldn't filter by depth and table. They came back with a decent list of options, but none as ideal as the pair I found on BN. I'd try that avenue as well.
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
I assume you're using the "Build your own Earrings" feature on BN's site? I went through a similar journey last month trying to find a good pair of matching earrings. It is difficult, but not impossible if you've got time and patience.

BN's site is ideal for searching for pairings because you can filter by table and depth, unlike James Allen which oddly doesn't have this functionality for pairings. Alternatively you can just find two single loose diamonds manually, but that is extremely time consuming.

This was the pair I ended up with on Blue Nile - G/SI1, literally identical spread and proportions. I couldn't be happier with how they ended up - perfectly eye clean and sparkle like crazy. At your size range, SI1 is perfectly doable but you will have to be more careful to make sure it's eye clean. If you want to err on the safe side, perhaps target VS2.


I saved a lot over what I would've paid for similar spec stones on Whiteflash - I only bring that up because it sounds like you are budget conscious like me. The other benefit of BN is that all of their studs come standard with Protektor backings which in my opinion are the highest quality backing you can get. You will definitely want those if you're rocking 2+ TCW. I've come across several pairings like these on BN, but I suspect at your size range there will be much fewer options.

The other thing I did that might help you is I called James Allen and basically asked them to do all the legwork for me since I couldn't filter by depth and table. They came back with a decent list of options, but none as ideal as the pair I found on BN. I'd try that avenue as well.

@TODiamonds thank you so much! This is very helpful advice and information. The journey is fun but I’m limited on time and quite honestly don’t trust myself to make an expensive mistake. I’ll check out blue Nile again - I am so grateful for all the great info!
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
Are you trading, selling or keeping the original stones? Asking as you may be limited to certain vendors if you trade up. That said, it may be a smart way to stretch your dollars.

Am I interpreting correct that size and color are your primary drivers?

Remember carat weight is a function of length * width * depth * 0.006. The important part being the depth.

In a traditional ideal cut stone such as your e-ring you may want to focus slightly different on the "personality" of the stones.

With ear rings you may want to consider a larger table and shallower depth. While this isn't always preferred for an e-ring due to obstruction (diamond goes dark as you stand over it to view it and block the light source), it is great for earrings as people don't hover over you the same way, well except maybe your husband.

The advantage is you get a little more size (spread) for the same carat weight as you are pushing the diamond weight out as opposed to down (depth). Also, with lower crowns you get a little more white light return as opposed to big bold rainbow flashes. In a well cut stone with these type of proportions you will get edge to edge brightness and the bonus of making it appear as white as possible which helps with your desire for high color.

If you are shopping locally I highly encourage you to buy an ASET scope and learn how to read the images (not too hard) as most places won't have this scope and simply sell you on it being GIA XXX, blah, blah, blah. I'm cool with a XXX stone but the ASET will help you confirm if a stone has leakage or not. Harsh reality is a bunch of stones passed along as "excellent" is far from it. The ASET gives you an easy way to decipher them.


Additionally when shopping you can normally find cheaper prices with BN and similar drop shippers (virtual inventory). The disadvantage with most is no ASET images so you have to start relying on reported proportions, etc. Not impossible as we do it all the time but it can be more time consuming and frustrating.

Also, do you foresee a future upgrade? If so, it may make more sense to check out vendors with a more generous upgrade policy.

@sledge thank you for all these great details. I was searching for ideal specifications and was not aware of the larger table/shallower depth option. I’ll also try to look at the ASET. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and for the helpful guidance!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
You mentioned you have wiggle room. These are a little over 1 carat each, G VS2 minimum. Both have medium blue fluor. Puts you right at $16k total. 6.44 x 6.48mm.

Super ideals with all the images, etc. FYI, contact BGD and ask Lesley to send you the hearts image. They don't post them on their website, but will make them available upon request. Side note, they will be blue as opposed to the typical red. Small thing I found cool since these are BGD Blue stones.


 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
5,791
Something closer to the $13k range, and still over 1 carat each. Stones measure around 6.50mm each. No images to confirm light performance or symmetry, but proportions and HCA scores are promising. Also, limited upgrade program.


GIA XXX 1.06 G VS2 @ $6,662

57 table, 61.4 depth, 34 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 80 LGF (slightly thick girdle)

Capture34-406.PNG


GIA XXX 1.05 G VS2 @ $6,529

57 table, 61.0 depth, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF (med-slightly thick girdle)

Capture34-408.PNG
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
58,547
I have been extremely pleased with Whiteflash and after upgrading multiple times, I also think they have the largest selection of superideals which makes matching pairs much easier. Mine are H VS2 and they appear bright and white on the ears due to the cut.

If you choose not to go with superideal cuts, then I'd recommend B2C over BN because B2C's prices are lower. It just takes some work going through all the stones at vendors with virtual inventories. Many stones are listed on multiple sites, so always compare prices.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
58,547
Around $14,000 can get you a pair of 1.10 each H VS2-SI1 at Whiteflash:


Hearts on Fire is so overpriced!
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
Around $14,000 can get you a pair of 1.10 each H VS2-SI1 at Whiteflash:


Hearts on Fire is so overpriced!

@diamondseeker2006 thank you so much! I’m reviewing all the fabulous information you and the others have shared. It feels far less overwhelming now.

My goal of getting the best cut and hitting the perfect mark of optimizing the performance for the price seems much more attainable now. I don’t want to inadvertently spend thousands of dollars and end up with something less than wonderful. Quality only hurts once and I want to be thrilled with the choice. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
You are very welcome! You know, my greatest jewelry regrets have been when I didn't get exactly what I wanted in order to save money. That's when I've ended up selling (sometimes at a loss) and later getting what I wanted in the first place! I have zero regrets when I have gone for high quality.

Good luck and please let us know if you need further help or come back and show us what you chose!
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
Something closer to the $13k range, and still over 1 carat each. Stones measure around 6.50mm each. No images to confirm light performance or symmetry, but proportions and HCA scores are promising. Also, limited upgrade program.


GIA XXX 1.06 G VS2 @ $6,662

57 table, 61.4 depth, 34 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 80 LGF (slightly thick girdle)

Capture34-406.PNG


GIA XXX 1.05 G VS2 @ $6,529

57 table, 61.0 depth, 34 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF (med-slightly thick girdle)

Capture34-408.PNG

These are nice stones - I prefer shallower stones like these for earrings. It's a good match - similar depth, same table. The only reservation I would have is the 0.06mm difference on spread. Won't be perceptible to the naked eye (especially when you're wearing them), but would still bug me :razz:

Here's a link I concocted which will help you compare them easier on one site:
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
These are nice stones - I prefer shallower stones like these for earrings. It's a good match - similar depth, same table. The only reservation I would have is the 0.06mm difference on spread. Won't be perceptible to the naked eye (especially when you're wearing them), but would still bug me :razz:

Here's a link I concocted which will help you compare them easier on one site:

What do you think of this one?

0.94 CT. ASCENDANCY HEARTS & ARROWS G SI2 ROUND CUT DIAMOND

it says it is a SI2 and I do see a chip but is there anything else wrong with the stone? I’m trying to figure out why the price is so good and I’m also not familiar with what a hearts and arrows mean.
 

TODiamonds

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
260
What do you think of this one?

0.94 CT. ASCENDANCY HEARTS & ARROWS G SI2 ROUND CUT DIAMOND

it says it is a SI2 and I do see a chip but is there anything else wrong with the stone? I’m trying to figure out why the price is so good and I’m also not familiar with what a hearts and arrows mean.

That's a massive feather. For that reason I wouldn't buy it. I would avoid SI2 altogether unless you're buying for studs.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 25, 2014
Messages
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What do you think of this one?

0.94 CT. ASCENDANCY HEARTS & ARROWS G SI2 ROUND CUT DIAMOND

it says it is a SI2 and I do see a chip but is there anything else wrong with the stone? I’m trying to figure out why the price is so good and I’m also not familiar with what a hearts and arrows mean.

That feather is visible at the top of the stone in the video (which is rotated slightly from the clarity plot on the grading report):

You could put the inclusion under a chunky prong to hide it - it's not really reflecting around the rest of the stone, which is very clean, so it could be a good purchase.

I think feathers are only plotted when they break the surface, though, so it could potentially be at risk from impacts on the girdle or gunk collection?

I'm not an expert, though, and others on here are better placed to call on SI2 stones.
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
That's a massive feather. For that reason I wouldn't buy it. I would avoid SI2 altogether unless you're buying for studs.

@TODiamonds thank you so much! Yes, I was thinking they could find a match to this one for studs. Does the feather interfere with the integrity of the stone otherwise, e.g., does it make it more susceptible to long term damage or anything? Thanks for your help- much appreciated!
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
That feather is visible at the top of the stone in the video (which is rotated slightly from the clarity plot on the grading report):

You could put the inclusion under a chunky prong to hide it - it's not really reflecting around the rest of the stone, which is very clean, so it could be a good purchase.

I think feathers are only plotted when they break the surface, though, so it could potentially be at risk from impacts on the girdle or gunk collection?

I'm not an expert, though, and others on here are better placed to call on SI2 stones.

@OoohShiny thanks for the idea on the chunky prong and also for the info on how feathers are plotted. The impact piece scares me; although it would be on my ear , I’m still pretty tough on my jewelry.
I can see that I should probably go for higher equality and get the very best I can to avoid worry. And there’s always insurance , but still.

thank you so much for sharing your wisdom on this!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
It looks like GoG has that stone in stock because of all the imaging they did. It may be worth a call to discuss the feather and how bad it is or isn't.

For me, it's a turnoff because of the size and type for the clarity level. I'd be concerned from a mind clean perspective and that would negate my joy from the stone. Others may have no issues but I know me, lol.

Also, I like to consider the rarity of the deal. What I mean by that is I consider the perceived risk against the discount I am receiving for the risk. Is the value large enough for me to be enticed to take the risk? More importantly how rare is the object I am considering and could I somewhat easily find an equal or similar deal.

For example, a new fridge with dings on the side that I will never see because of where the fridge sits. Normal price $2,000, but discounted to $1,650. I would be tempted as long as there were no other damage or drawbacks. Put the dents on the front door where I can see them and I'm less willing to buy as the discount isn't large enough for me. But let's pretend this is a supa dupa dream fridge normally costing $4,500 and I can get for $2,300. They are very rare and never go for less than $4,000 even during black Friday sales. Then maybe I consider exactly how bad the dents are and decide to get some magnets and put a picture of my wife or kids or schedule or whatever over the dents to mask them.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
Also you asked about H&A. What this means is the stone is cut to a higher level of symmetrical precision.

For instance the SI2 in question has very good light performance as evidenced by the ASET and idealscope images. Combine this with H&A symmetry and you have a great performer.

Looking at the hearts image I do think the symmetry is above par of most stones but there are some minor variances that would make me feel it's a very near miss to a true H&A. However, inclusion aside, if I was looking and price was right that would not stop me from buying. It's definitely way better than most stones.

Below is a more in depth explanation.

 

tuckie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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Apr 21, 2013
Messages
229
WF ACAs are truly beautiful stones. If they are "mind-clean" for you - just go buy them and you will not be disappointed. This is 100% what I would do for a ring stone.

If you are interested in doing a little legwork or are open to other possibilities, I'd personally call Yuketiel at ID Jewelry. He picked out a fantastic set of 1.26ct studs for me a few years back - which are GIA Excellent but a little shallower / spreadier than the proportions of a superideal. For earring stones, I prefer the slightly shallower stones that optimize for white (vs. colored) light and give me a some extra bang for my buck. 3 years later I am about to call him to source similarly proportioned stones a little larger.

In any case, happy hunting. I do love a good set of studs <3
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
Also you asked about H&A. What this means is the stone is cut to a higher level of symmetrical precision.

For instance the SI2 in question has very good light performance as evidenced by the ASET and idealscope images. Combine this with H&A symmetry and you have a great performer.

Looking at the hearts image I do think the symmetry is above par of most stones but there are some minor variances that would make me feel it's a very near miss to a true H&A. However, inclusion aside, if I was looking and price was right that would not stop me from buying. It's definitely way better than most stones.

Below is a more in depth explanation.


@sledge thank you so much! I especially enjoyed the fridge analogy. That really hit home and I’m thinking these are a skip. I cannot thank you and the others for sharing such helpful wisdom.
 

katkrack

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
191
WF ACAs are truly beautiful stones. If they are "mind-clean" for you - just go buy them and you will not be disappointed. This is 100% what I would do for a ring stone.

If you are interested in doing a little legwork or are open to other possibilities, I'd personally call Yuketiel at ID Jewelry. He picked out a fantastic set of 1.26ct studs for me a few years back - which are GIA Excellent but a little shallower / spreadier than the proportions of a superideal. For earring stones, I prefer the slightly shallower stones that optimize for white (vs. colored) light and give me a some extra bang for my buck. 3 years later I am about to call him to source similarly proportioned stones a little larger.

In any case, happy hunting. I do love a good set of studs <3

@tuckie thank you so much! I’ll definitely give Yuketiel a call.
 
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