shape
carat
color
clarity

Diamond prices are confusing to consumers.

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by itsuitsmefine, Aug 11, 2000.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
  1. itsuitsmefine
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2000
    by itsuitsmefine » Aug 11, 2000
    So, here's the deal, I am shopping for a loose diamond. My local jewelry store, an apparently reputable place, wants to sell me a .84, round, G, VS2, "very well cut" (I take that as meaining almost ideal cut, I forgot the table and depth dimensions), GIA cert stone for $5000... ok, fine... I have checked with another very reputable source and have been quoted about the same $5000...but when I look on the pricescope site, I see similar stones for about $1500 less... the jewelry store claims they can't even get the stone from the cutter at that price... so, what gives?
     
    


    


  2. basnjas
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    by basnjas » Aug 11, 2000
    Yeah! You guys are the best! You got my smile for me! Thank you!!!!!!!Lawmax, you can be assured that I will support any activity that you pursue and will be your #1 cheerleader. [​IMG]Same with you, Leonid!And Lawmax, it makes my day to have made your day yesturday! Got that? [​IMG]
     
  3. itsuitsmefine
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2000
    by itsuitsmefine » Aug 11, 2000
    Thanks for all of your input... well, I decided to make them an offer and they accepted. I also presented her with the ring, and she accepted. She said the ring was the most beautiful thing she has ever seen, so you can't go wrong with that!One thing I forgot to mention is that this diamond is laser engraved with the GIA cert #.. that was worth something to me as well. So, I think we're all happy now [​IMG]
     
  4. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Itsuitsmefine, cut can make a lot of difference in price. GIA lab report is good thing but GIA doesn't grade cut and does't provide vital cat parameters as crown and pavilion angles.So post all grading data (including polish, symmetry, girdle and culet) and you'll get experts opinions. In a meanwhile check out these sites for information about cut: www.niceice.com , www.diamond-cut.com.au , www.whiteflash.com , www.goodoldgold.com leonid
     
    


    


  5. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Itsuitsmefine, Congratulations!After all happiness is the only what counts!leonid
     
  6. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Itsuitsmefine, nobody can tell you what you should do. You have to decide yourself and go where you feel more comfortable. As much education you will get, as better your choice will be.You see, Lawmax prefers super ideal cuts (being already very sophisticated in diamonds). Your girl might want some other qualities…The fact is that over the web you can buy cheaper and better quality stones. We cannot say for all dealers listed on the PriceScope but some of them we know and we know how they treat customers and what kind of service provide.Try to call some of them and see what kind of impression you will have. Here are some links in random order you can start with: Joe Bacon ( http://www.intellex.com/~bacon )
    Martin Sheffield ( www.usacerteddiamonds.com )
    Iceman ( www.midwestgems.com )
    SteveL. ( www.demsjewelers.com )
    Jonathan ( www.goodoldgold.com )And www.Whiteflash.com of course.Having Pricescope as a tool you can negotiate prices much easily (especially if you will mention that you came from Pricescope [​IMG]). But don't forget to educate yourself first (especially about the cut).Some people concern about security of buying over the web. Well, you always will have from 7 to 30 days money back guarantee. So you can always arrange examination of your stone by a third party.By the way, Rockdoc ( http://www.diamondclearinghouse.com ) can arrange examination of the stone prior you will pay for it and give you unbiased opinion.leonid
     
  7. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    Itsuitsmefine,It is hard to say and the value of a diamond is basically in what someone will pay for it. Many internet dealers work on very small margins while many brick-and-morter dealers will charge whatever the market will bear. Many retail jewelers, especially those that call 60/60 ideal are not in touch with fairly recent changes in the types of diamonds available and the cost of diamonds over the internet. 25% greater mark-up is probably not the highest found. If the jeweler actually bought the stone to have in inventory instead of having it on memo or just calling for one from the dealer lists, than that can explain cost as well. 60/60 stones cost the dealers less to buy than the superideal cut diamonds so it is easier to stock them. It could be that your jeweler likes to buy these for inventory and mark them up a lot versus buying others with smaller profit margins. You do get the advantages of in person customer service, cleanings, sizings, etc.I don't understand why your jeweler can't buy the same diamonds for the same price as everyone else. I believe some dealers get breaks from certain cutters/brokers for doing volume business. I was interested in my search to see that A Cut Above, which sells brand name hearts and arrows diamonds, had a stone within your specs for about $3900. That's impressive!Your happiness with your purchase is all that matters! I'm sorry there are no easy answers in this business! I wish you a wonderful engagement! [​IMG]lawmax
     
  8. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    Hi itsuitsmefine!You need to post the proportions on the GIA stone you are looking at and ask for a Sarin report which will show all of the angles, etc. and let you know just how ideal the stone is. Then you need to make sure you are comparing "apples to apples" as we say.Also, some dealers do get better prices on diamonds off the wholesale to dealers lists due to volume of business, etc.Post all the stats on the diamond you're looking at and we'll help you. [​IMG]lawmax
     
  9. basnjas
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    by basnjas » Aug 11, 2000
    Another happy ending. Congratulations! [​IMG]
     
  10. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    Hi basnjas!It makes my day to see you here! [​IMG]lawmax [​IMG]
     
    


    


  11. basnjas
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    by basnjas » Aug 11, 2000
    Another happy ending. Congratulations! [​IMG]
     
  12. Diamond Lover
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    17
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    by Diamond Lover » Aug 11, 2000
    Thanks Leonid for your well wishes, but I'm afraid it's going to take some time now that the lawyers are involved! [​IMG]Will keep you posted!DL
     
  13. Diamond Lover
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    17
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    by Diamond Lover » Aug 11, 2000
    Leonid,Here I am, but I'm a bit confused. [​IMG] Has Itsuitsmefine already bought his stone and is unhappy? If so, he probably has a better chance for a refund than I do in my situation on 47th Street *IF* he bought from a reputable independent jeweler with a return policy. My particular case involves a falsified or misrepresented lab report that doesn't match the diamond I bought. To make matters worse, I didn't take the stone to be verified at the time of purchase, so it took me 18 months to find out I'd been defrauded and paid for something I didn't have. However, the jewelers on 47th Street are pretty low on the rung of jewelry dealers, and if this had happened elsewhere, I'm sure I would be having a somewhat better experience rectifying the situation. As it stands now, a law suit will be instituted since the jeweler refuses to cooperate.The good news is, for my second diamond purchase, I read everything I could and got educated. I purchased from an internet dealer and obtained a beautiful 2.06 F VS1 AGS 000 H&A for a great price, and THIS time had it verified immediately. [​IMG] I'm very happy with the way that purchase turned out, and I can't emphasize enough to everybody....educate yourself FIRST, and take the appropriate measures to verify you got what you paid for. It's critical to deal with a seller that is reputable as well...whether in a brick & mortar store or on the internet.Hoped this helps...but I'm open to more questions if I missed the point! [​IMG]Diamond Lover
     
  14. StevL
    Brilliant_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    598
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by StevL » Aug 11, 2000
    From what I just read, A Cut Above is a much better cut diamond, and less money. Money alone should never be the major factor, but we are talking much better cut too. Your also talking about a branded diamond that comes with many perks, but you will probably have to buy the setting and have the work done locally. Some internet sellers also offer mountings and provide the labor. So take you time, and *Think Through This*.If you really like the diamond and mounting you saw, make them a offer and see what happens. To have a local jeweler to complain to, or have service work done is worth something too (but how much you have to decide). You can also view many diamonds with out putting up one cent.Good luck..........------------------
     
  15. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    Congratulations! I wish you a lifetime of happiness together!Enjoy,lawmax [​IMG]
     
    


    


  16. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    itsuitsmefine,Ask your jeweler to run a sarin report if he/she has the machine. This information is not on a GIA certificate. Your jeweler is telling you that a 60/60 diamond is ideal or near ideal but not according to many experts. Can you go to a store that carries stones with a table between 54 and 57% with depth percentage around 61% as well? When you do your research on the sites mentioned by Leonid, you will see what is considered ideal by the AGS lab. Their certs contain all of the information you need. All of the cut proportions together determine how brilliant, sparkly and fiery the diamond will be. This is a matter of taste. Brilliance referring to white light, scintillation is how "sparkly" the diamond will be when you move your head around, dispersion refers to the fiery rainbow colors you see in the diamond. In general, a diamond with a 60% table will be more brilliant but less fiery than a diamond with a 55% table which many consider ideal. But these two percentages alone are not enough to determine how beautiful a diamond will be. Many diamonds are cut inefficiently to save carat weight.It would be good if you could find a store that carries diamonds with AGS certs (they grade cut), unbranded hearts and arrows stones, and also if you could find one that carries branded hearts and arrows diamonds. Some brands are A Cut Above, EightStar, Hearts on Fire, etc. You should compare to decide what look you want and what fits into your budget.I hope this helps you get started! [​IMG]lawmax
     
  17. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Itsuitsmefine, thanks for posting your story.I'm not going to question the reputation of your jeweler. I hope you compared apple to apple, including grading lab and ALL the cut proportions. Take into account the following.1. Markups in brick-and-mortar jewelry stores normally much higher then at internet dealers (25-50-100% versus 8-15%).2. Most of the stones listed in the net don't belong to the dealers but listed at the trading networks. I.e. being in business for a long time your dealer should be able to have an access to these stones.I personally know several trustworthy and intelligent internet and traditional dealers who are doing business that way.There are many cases when customers have been realized that they overpaid for the diamond or got low quality stone comparing with what they can get over the web.I will ask Diamond Lover who already posted here to share her story about her frustrating experience buying diamond on 47 st. Now she is in painful and uneasy process to exchange the stone or get her money back.We'll also ask the experts to share their insights on this problem.Lawmax is right as usual [​IMG] Could you please post all available grading data?leonid
     
  18. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,317
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2000
    It would be my choice for sure. Check out www.whiteflash.com I'm sure they have a good return policy. If you decide after reading about them to buy one of their diamonds, you can take it to the other jewelry store to compare the different cuts and the way they affect brilliance, scintillation and dispersion. The superideal cuts look excellent in lower lighting-flashes of beautiful rainbow colors. This will be limited in a 60/60 cut although it may look a bit brighter. The other thing about these superideal cut diamonds is that they leak less light. Better light return is key. Give it a try! You are definitely getting a lot more for the money this way. [​IMG]lawmax
     
  19. itsuitsmefine
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2000
    by itsuitsmefine » Aug 11, 2000
    Hey Folks,No, I havent purchased the stone yet. Well not entirely. I put down a refundable deposit and picked out the stone and am having them set it in an engagement ring that will return from the setter today. If I like what I see, and feel the price is somewhat reasonable, I'll complete the sale. So, really, my question was is it REASONABLE to expect a 25% price difference between the internet and a store IF the stone parameters are the same. If yes, why the difference? What are the chances that this price is mainly overhead and less about quality, assuming my jeweler is honest, and I do believe she is. And secondly, another jeweler which I trust quoted me a price on the phone that is quite similar and again, about 25% above average internet pricing (looking at 4C's, table & depth). I realize that there are many, many subjective measurements that go into a diamond and that pricing can be nebulous at times (probably perpetuated by the diamond industry to confuse guys like me). I buy a lot of jewelry. I really prefer colored stones and metals and this is the first diamond I have purchased. Mainly because of the hype and cartel price fixing I avoid them (not real romantic eh?). Generally I am more comfortable with the process of pricing colored stones and feel I am actually buying something of value. Personally I think that a diamonds value isnt intrinsic but rather contrived. That causes me heartburn. [​IMG]
     
  20. itsuitsmefine
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2000
    by itsuitsmefine » Aug 11, 2000
    Wow, thanks for the quick reply... I should get a copy of the GIA cert tomorrow... will that have all the grading data you need? What specifically? This is just from memory, but I recall them telling me the table was 60% and the depth was 61%... I suppose the real question I am asking is can the cut alone make $1500 difference in a .84 stone?
     
  21. itsuitsmefine
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2000
    by itsuitsmefine » Aug 11, 2000
    >I was interested in my search to see that A Cut Above, which sells brand name hearts and arrows diamonds, had a stone within your specs for about $3900. That's impressive!Huh, well the diamond I have been considering is about a grand more than that... so does that mean I'm being taken for an expensive ride and I should cash out and go on a cruise with the H&A diamond instead?
     
  22. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Lawmax, I see the problem that Itsuitsmefine should not get started but finised since he already bought his rock.I wonder whether it's worth trying to get an exchange. Hope DL will share her experience with us.leonid
     
  23. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    8,266
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1999
    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2000
    Thanks, DL, well said! I sincerely hope your case will be resolved in your favor!leonid
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

Share This Page