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Diamond Misrepresentation

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politicalace

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
14
Dear Pricescope,

I am looking for advice. Recently I purchased a diamond which I like. My one hangup is that the appraisal by my local GIA Certified appraiser certified the stone at 2 color grades (from E to G) below what the GIA certificate says and 1 clarity grade lower (from VS2 to SI1). The company website says it makes no representations concerning grading but I feel as if the gem was misrepresented since there is such a vast differnce in the possible price of the stone.

I emailed the company asking them to address this issue and I am probably going to take it to another appraiser to be compared to the certificate.

I was looking for advice on this matter. Am I blowing this out of proportion (I am aware that appraisers can differ in opinion)?

Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
Can you fix your typo mistake, as it is now, it does not make much sense. Also who is the company you are referring to? UD or GIA?
 
Is your appraiser independant? If they are, I'd contact the vendor ASAP. A three grade difference is alot. I'd make sure the correct stone was sent first, if it was, I'd want to know what they have to say about this.
 
Does the stone match the cert? This can be verified based on the inclusion plot. If it matches the GIA cert (is it GIA?) then the opinion of the appraiser does not much matter to me, because GIA is the benchmark. Was the diamond loose or set when the appraiser looked at it?
 
FYI the appraiser is GIA certified
 
Date: 5/1/2010 12:41:49 PM
Author: politicalace
FYI the appraiser is GIA certified
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Means little or nothing unfortunately.

Can you answer our other questions?
 
Date: 5/1/2010 12:40:18 PM
Author: dreamer_d
Does the stone match the cert? This can be verified based on the inclusion plot. If it matches the GIA cert (is it GIA?) then the opinion of the appraiser does not much matter to me, because GIA is the benchmark. Was the diamond loose or set when the appraiser looked at it?
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DD- If it was a one grade difference or borderline, I'd agree. But if this is a "qualified" appraiser with nothing to gain, then there's something very wrong.

What's your appraisers qualifications?
 
The Company was Union Diamond the Certificate was GIA so far as the appraiser, I''d have to check on how they looked at the stone, it may or may not have been set. (I bought it in loose to be set and appraised). I still have to check to see if the stone matches the cert.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 12:47:29 PM
Author: politicalace
The Company was Union Diamond the Certificate was GIA so far as the appraiser, I''d have to check on how they looked at the stone, it may or may not have been set. (I bought it in loose to be set and appraised). I still have to check to see if the stone matches the cert.
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So hold on.. did the jeweler, or someone working with a jeweler appraise the stone? Because that''s not independant.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 12:46:01 PM
Author: elle_chris


Date: 5/1/2010 12:40:18 PM
Author: dreamer_d
Does the stone match the cert? This can be verified based on the inclusion plot. If it matches the GIA cert (is it GIA?) then the opinion of the appraiser does not much matter to me, because GIA is the benchmark. Was the diamond loose or set when the appraiser looked at it?
Click to expand...
DD- If it was a one grade difference or borderline, I'd agree. But if this is a 'qualified' appraiser with nothing to gain, then there's something very wrong.

What's your appraisers qualifications?
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The key to the whole thing in my mind.

Now knowing it came from Union makes me highly doubtful that it was a misrepresentation of the stone on their part, they have a very good PS reputation. If the diamond matches the cert, it could have been an off day at GIA, which has happened though it is rare, or perhaps the cert is fabricated all together, which again seems unlikely.

But what other option would there be, Elle, to explain the discrepancy if the diamond and cert match?

Call Union and talk to them about this asap. Why worry when they can help you out (or should anyways).
 
The only thing the Jewler did was take the stone and the ring (which wasn''t bought from them either and set the two. The only thing I bought from the jewler was the head.

As far as the appraiser''s resume, i have to check into that further.

I appreciate the advice thus far. Thanks everyone for responding.
 
DD- If someone at a jewlery store where I didn''t purchase my stone appraised it for less, I wouldn''t be surprised. But if it''s a true independant appraiser, I wouldn''t dismiss what they said. Maybe like you said someone at GIA did have an off day, it''s still a mistake I wouldn''t want to pay for...

But I''m unclear about who did the appraisal..
 
I wouldn''t freak out yet. We are talking about a GIA stone here and it is likely to be accurate. The appraiser as mentioned above may be off but he also appraised the diamond in a setting.
 
The appraisal was done by the local person who assembled the ring
 
Just FYI, I emailed the appraiser for answers the questions you have provided me. Additionally, I must commend Union Diamond for contacting me via phone less than 1/2 hr after I emailed them. At this point, I have informed them that I will be in touch after seeking out additional information.
 
I guess call me a cynic but I would not really believe a color/clarity appraisal by a random person with a GIA "certificate" who assembled my ring. Were they using a master set to assess color? What is their experience with assessing clarity? Most appraisers out there assess value only it seems to me and do not necessarily have expertise in grading. I would verify that the diamond matches the cert, and then if I was still concerned I would have the diamond appraised by a truly independent and experienced appraiser, like some of the experts who regularly post here on PS. If they concur that the diamond is lower in color/clarity, then I would pursue a return or price adjustment with Union. As mentioned, GIA has had "off" days with diamond grading in the past.

I would also ensure that the value appraisal reflects the GIA cert and not the opinion of the appraiser, assuming that they confirm that the diamond matches the cert.

But this is just my opinion
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Date: 5/1/2010 1:16:34 PM
Author: politicalace
Just FYI, I emailed the appraiser for answers the questions you have provided me. Additionally, I must commend Union Diamond for contacting me via phone less than 1/2 hr after I emailed them. At this point, I have informed them that I will be in touch after seeking out additional information.
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Good! You are in good hands and I am sure you will resolve this to your satisfaction. Worst case scenerio, are you still within a return period for the diamond?
 
Policicalace, you wrote, "The appraisal was done by the local person who assembled the ring".
If this person sells diamonds they have a conflict of interest when they "grade" or "appraise" a stone they didn't sell.
In other words they could be lying to you to make you feel bad, or so you return the stone and buy one from them.

Appraisals should only be obtained from a person who works as a professional appraiser that:
1. Does not sell diamonds.
2. Charges YOU the appropriate rate for their professional services.

If it is free, paid for by the seller, or if the "appraiser" sells diamonds (and lost this sale) you can't be sure of what they tell you.

GIA and Union Diamond are reputable and if there really was a mistake (highly unlikely) I'm sure they will make it right.
It is much more likely you were lied to by that "local person who assembled the ring", or the person is genuinely incompetent.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 1:24:33 PM
Author: kenny
Policicalace, you wrote, ''The appraisal was done by the local person who assembled the ring''.
If this person sells diamonds they have a conflict of interest when they ''grade'' or ''appraise'' a stone they didn''t sell.
In other words they could be lying to you to make you feel bad, or so you return the stone and you buy one from them.

Appraisals should only be obtained from a person who works as a professional appraiser that:
1. Does not sell diamonds.
2. Charges YOU the appropriate rate for their professional services.

If it is free, paid for by the seller, or if the ''appraiser'' sells diamonds you can''t be sure of what they tell you.

GIA and Union Diamond are reputable and if there really was a mistake (highly unlikely) I''m sure they will make it right.
It is much more likely you were lied to by that ''local person who assembled the ring'', or the person is genuinely incompetent.
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What Kenny said. All "appraisers" aren''t created equal, and most especially free opinions are totally worth what you pay for them. It happens *all the time* that jewelers tell people they got a terrible deal/bad diamond and hey, guess what, they can sell you something much better. Surprise! It is a really common sales tactic and it''s pretty lame. It sounds to me like that''s what''s going on here.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 1:24:33 PM
Author: kenny
Policicalace, you wrote, ''The appraisal was done by the local person who assembled the ring''.

If this person sells diamonds they have a conflict of interest when they ''grade'' or ''appraise'' a stone they didn''t sell.

In other words they could be lying to you to make you feel bad, or so you return the stone and you buy one from them.


Appraisals should only be obtained from a person who works as a professional appraiser that:

1. Does not sell diamonds.

2. Charges YOU the appropriate rate for their professional services.


If it is free, paid for by the seller, or if the ''appraiser'' sells diamonds (and lost this sale) you can''t be sure of what they tell you.


GIA and Union Diamond are reputable and if there really was a mistake (highly unlikely) I''m sure they will make it right.

It is much more likely you were lied to by that ''local person who assembled the ring'', or the person is genuinely incompetent.
Click to expand...

all of this - just what I was going to say, but kenny said it well already.
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Even if you did not buy something from them (you said you only bought from the appraiser the head?), sometimes B&M stores like to "bash" online diamond purchases, unfortunately..

Anyways, I think you should be able to easily resolve this by seeking out a reputable, truly independent appraisal - someone who has no horse in your race at all, and *does not* sell diamonds or jewellery.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 12:41:49 PM
Author: politicalace
FYI the appraiser is GIA certified
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NO! HE IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIA does NOT certify appraisers. They train gemologists. The grade diamonds and issue reports. (Not certificates, Diamond Grading Reports, although they are commonly called certificates, even by those of us who know better.)

Is he/she looking at the diamond mounted or loose? Loose is much more reliable for grading purposes. Are his or her color grading stones clean or dirty? Every couple of years, or less if they are used a lot, they may need to be boiled in acid to remove particles of metal from the tweezers from the girdles. This is especially true if using an older set of comparrison stones that have bruted rather than polished girdles.

Is he/she in good health? A temporary illness can affect color acuity, as can being tired or even just hung over.

Your diamond was graded by three different graders at GIA and they had to come to a consensus of what they believed the diamond to be prior to issuing the report. I find it more likely that your appraiser was wrong than GIA, although I have seen the occassional "lucky" cert from GIA.

By all means get a second opinion if you are uncomfortable with the grade you received from the first independant appraiser, but be aware that the company selling you the ring has good faith in relying on the GIA report and will probably not be interested in dropping their price to meet the grading report of an unknown independant appraiser, even if he/she is correct.

Wink

P.S. If your independant appraiser says that he is GIA certified, that should be a good clue. If he says he is GIA educated and holds a GG or other degree from them, that is entirely different from claiming to be GIA certified.
 
Ahh, I feel better, many of the good people here have chimed in and also you are aware that the appraiser is not independant by any standard of independance as we know it.

fade away muttering, "GIA certified, why I never, certified by whom, why I auta certify him up along side the head... mumble mumble"

Wink on a cold windy cloudy Saturday, wishing he was fishing somewhere warm.
 
Heck... even that appraiser list on PS isn''t created equal. Some I wouldn''t touch with a 10 foot pole .. others I will jump to without a second thought.
 
FYI GIA Certified was my words, not theirs
 
Is your appraiser saying it’s a different stone from the one described in the GIA report, that he/she disagrees with the GIA assigned grade or that it has been damaged or altered since GIA saw it? (these are the only 3 explanations I can think of other than a simple reporting error on his part and he should be able to tell you which applies in your situation). Was he even aware that GIA inspected the stone before him? If not, and I’m guessing not, show him the GIA document and have this conversation with him. The difference is important.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Regarding clarity, we''ve already had discussions in this forum about "grade creep." I could see how an "old school" GIA gemologist might grade today''s GIA SI2 as an I1. My diamond is one of those I''d say should have been called an I1, not a SI2. So, I could believe that someone trained a few years ago might be of the opinion that a recent VS2 is really more of an SI1.
 
Date: 5/1/2010 5:32:19 PM
Author: Wink
Ahh, I feel better, many of the good people here have chimed in and also you are aware that the appraiser is not independant by any standard of independance as we know it.


fade away muttering, ''GIA certified, why I never, certified by whom, why I auta certify him up along side the head... mumble mumble''


Wink on a cold windy cloudy Saturday, wishing he was fishing somewhere warm.
Click to expand...

giggling at Wink''s muttering....
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