Diamond Liposuction

[Stephan]

Do you remember my last diamond?
It was nice, but I thought the pavilion mains were too narrow.
So I had my diamond re-cut.
It lost 16.44% of its original weight.
The color went down one grade, but I think that the original GIA cert was generous by giving the diamond a J-color.

Old certificate

link

New certificate

link

I will post pictures as soon as possible.

 

[Lorelei]

Hey Stephan!

I would LOVE to see pics!

 

[mercoledi]

How cool is that? I can''t wait to see the before and after.

 

[angeline]

wow! did Paul do the recut? How exciting, I can't wait to see pics

Edited to ask: Are you happy with it? Can you see the difference? what does the change in pav mains make to the look of the diamond?

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

pics please!

 

[Stephan]

Hi all, I''m still waiting as the diamond is being set in my ring right now, I''ll be able to post pics later.

Date: 8/15/2008 1:10:58 PM
Author: angeline
wow! did Paul do the recut? How exciting, I can''t wait to see pics

Edited to ask: Are you happy with it? Can you see the difference? what does the change in pav mains make to the look of the diamond?

I''ll answer your questions when the ring is back.
Paul did not do the recut. If you look at the new certificate, you will see who did it.

 

[Lynn B]

Ooooooooooooh, an Eight Star!!!

How exciting!

Can''t wait for pics!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I would like to know QM - why they had to shrink your diamond so much?

Did you bother to get estimates from Paul and others?

 

[purrfectpear]

Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

good q pp...

 

[Shay37]

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

I do not believe that EIGHT STAR and eighternity are the same cut. Please feel free to correct me if I''m wrong. BTW, 8star will overcome by brand quite a bit of size loss in the money department. How much? I am not exactly sure, but a significant amount.

shay

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/15/2008 10:36:01 PM
Author: Shay37

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

I do not believe that EIGHT STAR and eighternity are the same cut. Please feel free to correct me if I''m wrong. BTW, 8star will overcome by brand quite a bit of size loss in the money department. How much? I am not exactly sure, but a significant amount.

shay

not if they keep this up

 

[MMT]

How can the color go down a grade?

 

[purrfectpear]

Color grading is still somewhat subjective. Looks like the new lab compared to their master stones, and their lab guys/gals said K. It''s also possible that a new cut could change how the color reflects, but I suspect it was just the difference from GIA to the new lab?

 

[Linda W]

Hi Stephan

Glad to see you posting again.

Count me in, on wanting to see the pictures!!!

Linda

 

[Stephan]

Date: 8/15/2008 10:11:21 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I would like to know QM - why they had to shrink your diamond so much?

Before EightStar estimated the final loss, I already knew it would be a lot because of
- the shallow depth of the original diamond,
- the slightly painted lower girdles and the too narrow pavilion mains,
- the large table.

Correct me if I''m wrong, but I have the conviction that a slightly deep diamond will loose less weight than a shallow one when re-cut.

I really think EightStar did its best.

Date: 8/15/2008 10:11:21 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Did you bother to get estimates from Paul and others?

EightStar is not the same than H&A.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/15/2008 10:36:01 PM
Author: Shay37

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

I do not believe that EIGHT STAR and eighternity are the same cut. Please feel free to correct me if I''m wrong. BTW, 8star will overcome by brand quite a bit of size loss in the money department. How much? I am not exactly sure, but a significant amount.

shay

you''re correct. they are not the same cut.

 

[MMT]

Thanks for your response purrfect pear.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

Perhaps did I loose in retail value, but if you try to sell a 2.5 J VVS2 common diamond or a 2.08 K VVS2 EightStar on other forums, which one do you think will sell easier and for more money?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:09:17 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?

Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

Perhaps did I loose in retail value, but if you try to sell a 2.5 J VVS2 common diamond or a 2.08 K VVS2 EightStar on other forums, which one do you think will sell easier and for more money?

probably an infinity 2.25ct K VVS2 with an AGS report and H&A''s would fetch more, but it is not my field QM. However this is clearly a brand value question for you and I have no rights to question that.
But as someone who knows a bit about diamond cut, I would like to know from 8* what problems they encountered that led to the diameter and weight loss.

 

[Stephan]

Garry,

I don''t complain about the final weight.

As I said, I think the diamond lost weight because of:
- the shallow crown and pavilion of the original diamond
- the slightly painted lower girdles and the too narrow pavilion mains
=> lower halves angle very near to pavilion mains angle
- the large table

I don''t see any problem?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 8/16/2008 9:09:17 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM

Author: purrfectpear

Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?


Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

Perhaps did I loose in retail value, but if you try to sell a 2.5 J VVS2 common diamond or a 2.08 K VVS2 EightStar on other forums, which one do you think will sell easier and for more money?

‘Retail’ value is not a relevant concept here. Normally this value definition means the price being asked by traditional stores before discounting, which may not be relevant in ANY situation but even if you take it to mean the prices actually realized by stores it doesn't apply here.

Where do you go to get an eightstar? There are a few dealers who sell them as well as directly from eightstar and although a 2.08/K/VVS2 from inventory isn’t completely out of the question, I think chances are good that the only way to get one is to have a bigger stone recut, just like you have done. It’s easy enough to work out the cost to do that by talking with an eightstar dealer but it is simply not valid to say that because 2.50/J/VVS2 list higher than a generic 2.08/K/VVS2 on Rapaport or Pricescope that the conversion from a 2.50/J/VVS2/GIA-VG to a 2.08/K/VVS2/Eightstar resulted in a reduction of retail value.

It’s also worth noting that ‘retail’ value is not the same as ‘resale’ value in either case. Both J and K are a tough color to sell in the secondary market especially when paired with high clarity and adding the eightstar branding would help a lot. Eightstar fans are a small but very enthusiastic marketplace and they ARE willing to pay a premium for the brand. I don't know which would come out higher and even that may not be important, I'm just pointing out that the question is not as easy as it seems at first blush.

If you’re worried about the ‘value’ issue, it may be worth your trouble to fight for that J color. Eightstar doesn’t like to send stones to GIA because they slam them on cut grading. I’ve seen knockout stones that scored a ‘good’ cut grade and, although this doesn’t affect the stone at all, it’s a slap in the face to the cutters and it’s distressing to customers who went way out of their way to get the best of the best and even an unjust grade still looks bad on paper. AGSL may be the right choice for this one instead of GCAL. Talk with Dana about it.

BTW. Eightstars rock.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Stephan]

Very interesting post, Neil!
Thank you so much!
I don''t want to have the diamond re-graded, because I could feel that the J-color given by GIA was a little high, as the diamond looked yellower than other J''s I''ve owned, so I think K is the right color.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:08:17 AM
Author: Linda W
Hi Stephan

Glad to see you posting again.

Count me in, on wanting to see the pictures!!!

Linda

Me too!

 

[Stephan]

I''m not able to post ring pictures at yet, I''ll have my ring back this week.
But here is a before/after Firescope picture that Dana sent (only 20% of the real picture size because of the 100KB limit).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

QM your stone had painted lower and upper girdles - that is why it looked especially shallow.
Here is how much 8* took away

 

[Jenn5504]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:10:48 PM
Author: QueenMum
I''m not able to post ring pictures at yet, I''ll have my ring back this week.
But here is a before/after Firescope picture that Dana sent (only 20% of the real picture size because of the 100KB limit).

WOW! I can''t wait to see pics when you get it back! This is a really interesting post, thanks for sharing! It''s going to be GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:51:41 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
QM your stone had painted lower and upper girdles - that is why it looked especially shallow.
Here is how much 8* took away

Garry..., how would you create/re-cut a steeper crown and pavilion with out compressing/re-blocking the diameter if (in case) the original girdle was a thin one?

 

[Stephan]

Hi Garry!

Before the re-cut, I could see that the pavilion was obviously painted, but not the crown, the crown was in fact regular or very very slightly digged, as the girdle had this particular (also slight) wavy look.

Thank you for the picture! In the reality, the diamond before had a shallower crown and a bigger table (59%) than in your picture, I can understand that it does cost some yield when you cut to obtain a smaller table and a higher crown. Also the too shallow lower halves angle (narrow arrows + painting) minimize the spread if you cut to EightStar proportions.

But that is my guess, I''m not a professional of course...

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/16/2008 10:01:25 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 8/16/2008 9:09:17 AM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 8/15/2008 10:29:30 PM

Author: purrfectpear

Since you went from a 2.50 J VVS2, to a 2.08 K VVS2 it would appear that you lost about $6,000 in retail value. Do you feel the eighternity cut overcomes some of the loss?


Looking forward to seeing pics to see if we can see the difference in performance

Perhaps did I loose in retail value, but if you try to sell a 2.5 J VVS2 common diamond or a 2.08 K VVS2 EightStar on other forums, which one do you think will sell easier and for more money?

‘Retail’ value is not a relevant concept here. Normally this value definition means the price being asked by traditional stores before discounting, which may not be relevant in ANY situation but even if you take it to mean the prices actually realized by stores it doesn''t apply here.

Where do you go to get an eightstar? There are a few dealers who sell them as well as directly from eightstar and although a 2.08/K/VVS2 from inventory isn’t completely out of the question, I think chances are good that the only way to get one is to have a bigger stone recut, just like you have done. It’s easy enough to work out the cost to do that by talking with an eightstar dealer but it is simply not valid to say that because 2.50/J/VVS2 list higher than a generic 2.08/K/VVS2 on Rapaport or Pricescope that the conversion from a 2.50/J/VVS2/GIA-VG to a 2.08/K/VVS2/Eightstar resulted in a reduction of retail value.

It’s also worth noting that ‘retail’ value is not the same as ‘resale’ value in either case. Both J and K are a tough color to sell in the secondary market especially when paired with high clarity and adding the eightstar branding would help a lot. Eightstar fans are a small but very enthusiastic marketplace and they ARE willing to pay a premium for the brand. I don''t know which would come out higher and even that may not be important, I''m just pointing out that the question is not as easy as it seems at first blush.

If you’re worried about the ‘value’ issue, it may be worth your trouble to fight for that J color. Eightstar doesn’t like to send stones to GIA because they slam them on cut grading. I’ve seen knockout stones that scored a ‘good’ cut grade and, although this doesn’t affect the stone at all, it’s a slap in the face to the cutters and it’s distressing to customers who went way out of their way to get the best of the best and even an unjust grade still looks bad on paper. AGSL may be the right choice for this one instead of GCAL. Talk with Dana about it.

BTW. Eightstars rock.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Its not my expertise but I hear these type of combo''s are very sought after in the east (of the globe)..., especially VVS''s.
I see these combo''s sell at ridiculous prices in HK, etc...