Diamond help-HCA score 0.9

[benfikaman]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading a lot of everyone's posts now for a few weeks and doing a lot of research and I ordered a diamond from James Allen for a planned proposal on valentine's day. Sadly I found out today that the shipping is delayed n wont make it in time ...even though I had talked to them prior and they assured me it would be delivered by the 9th. In the meantime, I figured It will give me some more time to analyze the diamond and make sure I understand everything.
Here are the specs:
Hoping someone can help me.

This diamond is scoring 0.9 on HCA and scores excellent on everything but it falls outside of GIA excellent and PGS Grade 0.

Why would this be? I've read on here less than HCA score of 1 and what that might mean but wouldn't that be the case for shallower diamonds with a a PA of 40.5 or less?

Here is the info:
Depth:60.6%
Table:58.0%
Crown Height:14%
Crown Angle:33.0°
Pavilion Angle:40.8°
Pavilion Depth:43.0%
Star Length:50.0%
Girdle:Medium to Slightly Thick







Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[rockysalamander]

The crown angle is a bit low and with the other angles, this may not be ideal as a ring. I also prefer a table less than 57% for not 60/60 diamonds, but this is more a personal preference as I don't like the side to look flattish. To be sure that this will have performance, ask for an Idealscope images. For many, unless culturally important, IF is overkill and you may be paying a lot for clarity you can't see. Here are a few that have solid angles (some with an IS to show performance) but I played with a few of your criteria to show you a range.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3850220, 6.78 mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3243080, 6.66 mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3151850, 6.61 mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2519448, 6.60 mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2627982, 6.60 mm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3280372, 6.55 mm

But, assuming I'm correct that you have a $10k budget, I'd look at these super-ideal that look great at this pricepoint and size.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3916986.htm, 1.152 G VS1, 6.78 mm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936406.htm, 1.08 D VS2, 6.62 mm

 

[TreeScientist]

Well, to begin, the crown angle is lower than we typically recommend on this site (34-35). Before you purchase this diamond, I would ask JA for an IdealScope and ASET image to verify that there is no light leakage.

Also, what is the price of this diamond? Is there a reason you selected internally flawless for clarity? In doing so, you're likely overpaying for a difference that you'll never see. Anything over VS1 is overkill, and even a VS2 it is very unlikely you'll ever see anything in the diamond. Most people on here recommend looking for "eye clean" SI1's or VS2's as the best value diamonds.

For example, here is a really nice G/VS2 that has a beautiful IdealScope image along with it. I'm guessing this is much cheaper than the diamond you selected, no?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4403964

This diamond is also a better cut than the one you selected, and I'm sure is much cheaper (although you would need to ask for an IdealScope image to confirm light performance):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4370952

And finally, a F VS2 from WhiteFlash's A Cut Above line. Pricier than the other options at $8,600, but I'm sure it is still cheaper than the one you selected, and will likely be the most beautiful of the bunch.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947664.htm

I would suggest that you look into other options before committing to the diamond you selected, unless there is some cultural reason which absolutely necessitates that you purchase an IF diamond.

 

[benfikaman]

Hi guys and thanks for your replies, there is no cultural reason for IF clarity but I figured the price difference that I've found is not much difference between this one and a a step below. Also does James Allen provide idealscope and asset scope images?

 

[TreeScientist]

Hi guys and thanks for your replies, there is no cultural reason for IF clarity but I figured the price difference that I've found is not much difference between this one and a a step below. Also does James Allen provide idealscope and asset scope images?

Yes, they will typically have these images on file for any diamond over 1 carat. Just ask a representative for them. If not, then they can have the images taken for you.

But again, since there's no cultural reason for IF (or even a step below at VVS1 or VVS2, which is also overkill) I would suggest you look at a few of the diamonds that @rockysalamander and I suggested.

 

[rockysalamander]

JA generally can provide Idealscope IS images for rounds, but not ASET. It seems to depend on the supplier if they can get an IS or not.

Hopefully, one of the options we posted will suit. If you have a hard deadline that is near, do not buy from JA. During peak buying times, JA has often missed deadlines and disapointed customers. They seem to have some problems with scaling their production with high demand. WF is much more reliable at all times, but especially during peaks, and will move heaven and earth if they make a mistake.

 

[benfikaman]

I just asked James Allen for an ideal scope image and asset scope image...this is there reply:
For round diamonds we will not provide an ASET image, but we may be able to provide an idealscope. I do see it looks like we may have an image on file for this stone. I will request that our team email it to you within the next 48 hours.

I'll let u guys know once I receive it

 

[benfikaman]

What confuses me about the light leakage is that as you can see from the image above the hca score says excellent on light return and fire and scintillation and Gia graded it as an ideal cut. It seems that despite that there could still be reason for concern?

 

[TreeScientist]

What confuses me about the light leakage is that as you can see from the image above the hca score says excellent on light return and fire and scintillation and Gia graded it as an ideal cut. It seems that despite that there could still be reason for concern?

Yes, the HCA is used as an Elimination tool, NOT a selection tool. An HCA score under 2 means that the diamond is worth considering, but it doesn't necessairly that it will have absolutely perfect light return (which is what the IS and ASET images help to confirm).

This is why it is good to select diamonds graded by the AGS. Not only is there selection criteria for "Ideal" cut (AGS 0) more strict than for GIA excellent, but they also provide you with all of these images and give you an analysis of expected light return from the diamond. For reference, all of the WhiteFlash ACAs and Expert Selection diamonds are graded by the AGS, which is one of the reasons why they are so highly recommended on this site.

 

[rockysalamander]

GIA excellent is a broad category that includes some meh options and some amazing ones. So, its just the first of the filters we use when screening stones. The next is looking at those angles. Remember, HCA is used to eliminate stone...never to select for them. They goal of the HCA is to help you weed out of the GIA Excellent group those that are very uncomplimentary. After that, we use other tools, including IS or ASET to look at the volume of light return...and the H&A image to look at symmetry and cutting consistency.

Its like buying a used car, you initially screen for price/make/mileage...then you need to make selections based on features (bluetooth, leather, etc.). Then, you go look at it and its about the engine sound, and feel and overall package.

 

[benfikaman]

GIA excellent is a broad category that includes some meh options and some amazing ones. So, its just the first of the filters we use when screening stones. The next is looking at those angles. Remember, HCA is used to eliminate stone...never to select for them. They goal of the HCA is to help you weed out of the GIA Excellent group those that are very uncomplimentary. After that, we use other tools, including IS or ASET to look at the volume of light return...and the H&A image to look at symmetry and cutting consistency.

Its like buying a used car, you initially screen for price/make/mileage...then you need to make selections based on features (bluetooth, leather, etc.). Then, you go look at it and its about the engine sound, and feel and overall package.

It's starting to get clearer for me now...so after I narrow it down using hca and assuming there is no ideals cope and asset scope images.. is there an angle combination that you guys generally look for? From your comments above..crown angle between 34-35, Pavillion angle recommend is? You also mentioned 57 and below for table..how low? How about depth %?
Also isn't Gia diamonds more popular, more expensive than ags?

Sorry for all the questions but I can't even sleep thinking about all this!

 

[TreeScientist]

It's starting to get clearer for me now...so after I narrow it down using hca and assuming there is no ideals cope and asset scope images.. is there an angle combination that you guys generally look for? From your comments above..crown angle between 34-35, Pavillion angle recommend is? You also mentioned 57 and below for table..how low? How about depth %?
Also isn't Gia diamonds more popular, more expensive than ags?

Sorry for all the questions but I can't even sleep thinking about all this!

Here's the dimensions that you should be searching within:
Depth: 60-62.3%
Crown Angle: 34-35 (35.5 works with 40.6 PA)
Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (40.6 works best with with 35 or 35.5 CA, 41 with 34 CA)
Table: 54-57% (or 58% in certain diamonds)

Looking within those ranges will get you pretty far in finding diamonds which will have good light performance. All of the diamonds that @rockysalamander and I suggested above fit within these ranges.

GIA is certainly a larger lab, but AGS is actually considered more "prestigious" and their stones usually command a premium over GIA Excellent Stones. Again, this is because AGS0 is more stringent than GIA Ex, and the report provides more information.

It's sort of a "chicken or the egg" argument when discussing why AGS stones are usually more expensive than GIA, but I believe it is because cutters will only send their best stones to the AGS for grading. AGS costs more for a certification than GIA, so cutters will only send a stone to them if they know it will get AGS 0. Look around on the internet vendors. Do you see many AGS 1's? That's because, if they know that a stone will get AGS 1, it would make more sense for them to send it to GIA to get an excellent grade.

Again, this isn't to say that there aren't nice GIA EX stones that will be great performers, it just means that not every GIA EX will be a great performer. They need to be examined on an individual basis.

 

[benfikaman]

I just received via email the idealscope for the diamond above from JA. They also shipped out the diamond this afternoon and it's on its way for Monday delivery. Let me know what you guys think...keeper or not?
Thanks again for your inputs!

 

[benfikaman]

Any thoughts on the IS image?

 

[benfikaman]

Also, what is the difference between the Ideal scope image and the asset scope image. Is it necessary to look at both?

 

[TreeScientist]

Also, what is the difference between the Ideal scope image and the asset scope image. Is it necessary to look at both?

Well, the IS looks pretty good. The arrows are a bit short, but that's to be expected in a more 60/60-ish style diamond with a larger table and lower crown. There are a few pink areas under the table and a little bit of obstruction next to the arrows from 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock, but the diamond should still be a great performer.

The IS and ASET are completely different images, but both are measures of light return in their own way. For an in-depth comparison of the two tools, read this interesting journal entry:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

 

[benfikaman]

Well, the IS looks pretty good. The arrows are a bit short, but that's to be expected in a more 60/60-ish style diamond with a larger table and lower crown. There are a few pink areas under the table and a little bit of obstruction next to the arrows from 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock, but the diamond should still be a great performer.

The IS and ASET are completely different images, but both are measures of light return in their own way. For an in-depth comparison of the two tools, read this interesting journal entry:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

Thanks TreeScientist for your input on the IS image and the great article about the IS and Aset images. Where can I purchase an Aset scope?
Never thought there was so much to know about diamonds!