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Diamond goes dark in artificial light!

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Ok, I need some help. I'm getting ready to return an H colored diamond I bought that scored under 2 on the HCA, so cut is excellent. It sparkles like mad and is nice and bright outdoors but once I"m inside in artificial light with low lighting or jewelry store, etc, the stone goes black. Ick. IS that because it's an H? It's so confusing because my sister has a G color with faint fluorescence and her diamond is always lit up brightly and dances white in ALL lighting, I've never seen her stone dark, ever. We ran it through the HCA and she scored under a 2 so she has a great cut as well. So why would one step up, my stone, an H cause the darkness? OR is it something else? I need to know because I have two stones on hold and need to get the brightest one and hope don't run into the same problem AGAIN with the new stone.
Specs on stone I"m returning:
.96 H color (GIA Cert excellent cut and under excellent scores on HCA) no fluorescence
6.43 x 6.43
59 table
59.7 depth
34
40.6
medium faceted

Here's my choices (yes, I know, they are both SI2 but I've confirmed they are eye clean!) They are both GIA certed excellent cut and both scored all excellent on HCA.

1.05 G color with medium blue fluorescence
6.54 x 6.53
depth 61.7
table 56
33
41
medium to slightly thick faceted
$4,555

or

.96 E color with faint fluorescence
6.43 x 6.44
59 table
59.2 depth
34
40.6
thin to medium faceted
$4, 351

Which one will be the brightest? I just can't handle a stone that is dark in most lighting. It's giving me a headache trying to figure out why it's doing this???
I'd appreciate any and all input! :wall:
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,786
Re: Diamond goes black in artificial light!

Where does it look black?
if it is under the table then the pavilion angle could be an issue if some of them are under 40.5ish
GIA averaging then grossly rounding can bite at times.
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Re: Diamond goes black in artificial light!

I guess a better way to describe it is the whole diamond takes on an overall dark/dingy appearance. :knockout: I showed it to the lady in the jewelry store today and she thinks it's because it's an H. She also was wearing an H color diamond in her ring and says she sees the same thing in hers but I didn't observe that when looking at her ring. I'm baffled. :think:
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,786
It sounds like obstruction, the diamond is drawing light from the area where you block the light rather than the areas around you.
H color will not cause that, shallow pavilion angles will.
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Karl, what do I look for to avoid this? Do either of the diamonds I'm looking at look like they'd be better?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,786
When gia report says the pavilion angle is 40.6 its a good idea to have them checked for issues before being sent to you to save time and shipping. If its lower than that then its easier to avoid them than sort out the good ones.

Easiest way is don't use drop shippers and have them screened before being sent to you.
I cant suggest specific diamonds but if your interested in recommendations the prosumers here would be happy to help.
 

16ocean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
695
Hi desertgirl- I'm not sure abt either diamond you posted. When I was looking for my diamond I used these specs as a guideline:

depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,693
I'd guess it was the cut rather than the colour making the stone black out in certain lighting. I own mid coloured stones and they don't black out.
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Thank you guys! Is this better? GIA excellent 1.02 G color

57 table
61.2 depth
34.5 crown angle
40.8 pavilion angle
Thin to medium faceted
 

HappyNewLife

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
2,534
My fiance and I each have a 1.7 carat, G, SI1, HCA under 2 and idealscope images confirmed they were both cut well. My fiance's diamond is white under all light, while mine goes pitch black in certain lighting (fluorescent crap lighting is the worst) and sometimes it goes orange. It's so weird. But, for some reason, I'm OK with it. They just behave differently for whatever reason, despite having similar angles.
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Arkieb1, do you have the details on your stone so I can gauge if I'm looking in the right ballpark?
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
Thank you for sharing Happy NewLife! So strange. I'm glad it's not bothering you though!
 

16ocean

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
695
desertgirl|1416458664|3787018 said:
Thank you guys! Is this better? GIA excellent 1.02 G color

57 table
61.2 depth
34.5 crown angle
40.8 pavilion angle
Thin to medium faceted
my guess and know it is only a guess is yes . . . .but you never know till you see it.
 

thecat

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
1,483
Mine too. I read somewhere that well cut rounds will appear dark in some lighting. Can't remember what sort of lighting though.
 

desertgirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
17
I keep hearing that about well cut diamonds too but I'm not a fan of the dark look at all. Wish there was a happy medium. Most of the time we are in artifical light so. The stone I has looks great in the sunlight, direct and indirect. Baffling for sure. :wall:
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
The beauty of well cut diamonds is that they are alive and SPARKLING in all lighting conditions. If you go out into the sunlight you will have dark areas in your diamond as the "single point" of light is a long ways away and a very narrow pinpoint, so much of the diamond is not gathering much light, but the dispersion and brilliance that will come out of the "lit" areas will be incredible. Now if you take that well cut diamond under a broad leafed tree that single point of light will be broken into thousands of points and you will have a light show that makes your eyes happy.

From the picture shown above, it does not appear to be from cutting that your diamond is turning dark, but without the diamond in hand to test we have no way of knowing what the cause is. We can make guesses, but guesses are not the same as answers.

Wink
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Can you send it to one of our PS appraisers?
Or maybe you live near one, where are you?
 

TC1987

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
1,833
HCA is a rejection tool. It's not the last word. CA / PA angle combos can affect character and performance, and so does the minor faceting. GIA Excellent grade is very broad compared to AGS 000 and it allows some that are not great performers. Perhaps just look at AGS 000 stones, if you just want a shortcut. I believe that if a cutter knows he or she has a stone good enough for AGS 000, that's the lab it will most likely be sent to. :)

Color didn't make it go dark. I have an M H&A and it's not dark. Diamond buyers used to have a quick test: Wrap your fingers around the pavilion to block light, put the stone under the table, check whether or not it goes dark or it reflects light. (It was something like that.)

I have OECs, which are supposed to be "candlelight-friendly" stones, but sunlight is really where they come alive. My everyday ring is a .8ct J from a pawn shop. It has a 60% table or something, might be a European cut, not Old European, but that stone lights up like a headlight in office lighting. The modern H&A RBs are a more homogenous group with fewer quirks but diamonds are still individuals. The ASET image can help judge that. I used the GemEx Brilliancescope live reports heavily when I made my purchases from Good Old Gold. I thought it was a great substitute, when one could not look at the diamond in person. I must have been the only customer that did, because I don't see it used much nowadays. lol
 
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