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Diamond dealer tells me dont go with AGS

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Tysonko1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
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Hello everyone, I have been doing my homework on here and have concluded that I would liike to persue an AGS0 princess cut diamond. I want a stone between 1.2 and 1.49. The best over all stone I can buy for under 8K all things considered. I just talked to this local person who appears to be moving single diamonds and settings. Shes local and appeared to be knowledgeable and helpful. I started to talk about finding me an asg stone and she states " I can find you asg0 stones but GIA is the better way to go, they are the leaders and are more strict than asg" I know based on what I have learned here that this is not true. She said I will pay more for an asg and its a waste of money. I said" Why would an asg cert diamond cost more when the industry looks at it as an inferior cert" That stumped her for a minute and than she responded with" I think it was because it cost more for their cert"

At this point I thought it would of been better for her to think about it and state that she would do the research, rather than to assume that she had enough information to make a strong argument either way.

I have looked at a lot of the sites gog and whiteflash not much there.

I guess I would be open to look at GIA stones if they matched the ags0 cut quality.

So now I am on my own mission to find a stone. I am open to suggestions and may even have a little gift for the person that finds me the best deal on the best stone.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated

Tyson
 
You asked for an AGS-0. That’s a CUT grade. GIA doesn’t issue cut grades on princess cuts so the cut grading, if any, is coming from her or perhaps some other 3rd party.

Whether or not this is a ‘waste of money’ is a shopping decision that’s up to you and yes, it generally trades at a premium over ungraded stones. She’s welcome to argue against it if she wishes but GIA simply doesn’t offer an alternative in this area. Have you looked at some diamonds in person to see the difference? Is this difference valuable to you?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Thank you for responding Neil,

I have not seen the ags cut stones. I learned about them on here. I am working the variables so that the stones I order or look at will at least be in the ball park of what I would like. So cut with consideration to ratios are my main concerns. That takes care of most of the issues. I need the width and length to be very close as well. I plane to have this stone kite set. Any avail stones ?

Thanks
Tyson
 
What is the specs you are looking at and your budget?
 
I want a stone between 1.2 and 1.49. The best over all stone I can buy for under 8K

Thanks for any help
 
I actually saw that one. I am going to have it kite set so I wondering if the mm 5.72 x 5.84 will be an issue due to the type of setting im planning on. Other than that Its def in the running as a good choice

Thanks for any and all help
 
Ya, maybe.
 
Date: 11/19/2009 4:35:37 PM
Author: Tysonko1
I actually saw that one. I am going to have it kite set so I wondering if the mm 5.72 x 5.84 will be an issue due to the type of setting im planning on. Other than that Its def in the running as a good choice

Thanks for any and all help
Click to expand...
You would need to ask Jon at GOG whether this would be an issue, personally I am very fond of star set / kite set Princess.
 
IMO the GIA is no stricter than AGS in their grading practices, but AGS definitely has the upper hand when it comes to princess cut diamonds because of the Light Performance rating and overall cut grade! There are definitely more GIA graded princess cut diamonds than there are AGS graded princess cut diamonds, but it seems to me that this is because it is so difficult to achieve the AGS Ideal 0 rating for a princess cut...

Want to have some real fun with the lady at the jewelry store? Ask her what her preference is for the number of chevron facets on the underside of the diamond and the relationship between the number of chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets... You can study up on this by searching for those terms here on the forum and no doubt you''ll enjoy the total look of "huh, what?!?!" on her face
2.gif
 
Date: 11/19/2009 5:24:23 PM
Author: Todd Gray
Want to have some real fun with the lady at the jewelry store? Ask her what her preference is for the number of chevron facets on the underside of the diamond and the relationship between the number of chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets... You can study up on this by searching for those terms here on the forum and no doubt you''ll enjoy the total look of ''huh, what?!?!'' on her face
2.gif
Click to expand...

cruel and unusual.
 
Date: 11/19/2009 5:49:06 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 11/19/2009 5:24:23 PM
Author: Todd Gray
Want to have some real fun with the lady at the jewelry store? Ask her what her preference is for the number of chevron facets on the underside of the diamond and the relationship between the number of chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets... You can study up on this by searching for those terms here on the forum and no doubt you''ll enjoy the total look of ''huh, what?!?!'' on her face
2.gif
Click to expand...

cruel and unusual.
Click to expand...
Pricescope Knowledge Snobbery
9.gif
 
replying without reading the qustion...
My guess: this jeweler doesnt have AGS stones to sell you so he does not reccomend you go buy from someone else instead.

now I will read the question to see if I have guessed correctly...
 
Another one to consider in case you are interested in buying on line.

1.3ct G VS1
 
Just wanted to chime in that I''d DEFINTELY go for the AGS-0 for a princess. It''s much harder to judge princesses than rounds on numbers, so the light performance grading would be the most important thing for me.
 
Date: 11/19/2009 5:24:23 PM
Author: Todd Gray
IMO the GIA is no stricter than AGS in their grading practices, but AGS definitely has the upper hand when it comes to princess cut diamonds because of the Light Performance rating and overall cut grade! There are definitely more GIA graded princess cut diamonds than there are AGS graded princess cut diamonds, but it seems to me that this is because it is so difficult to achieve the AGS Ideal 0 rating for a princess cut...

Want to have some real fun with the lady at the jewelry store? Ask her what her preference is for the number of chevron facets on the underside of the diamond and the relationship between the number of chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets... You can study up on this by searching for those terms here on the forum and no doubt you''ll enjoy the total look of ''huh, what?!?!'' on her face
2.gif
Click to expand...
I agree 100% and i stated that to this women. She is not at a jewelery store she is an independent dealer. I believe she works from home and has access to a large inventory of stone. She sent me a large list of various gia stones. For the 8k I am willing to spend she had a number of 1.5 stones for under that price. Its labeled regular rapnet and it has a colum that says %disc next to the price per karet. Does this mean anything to you?



After todays call she said she will do whatever I want. I was put off by her opinion on the AGS so I just said I would be in touch.

I will be doing some homework on the the relationship between chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets.


Oh by the way during our conversation she said "oh I can see that your a person that wants to know every detail" I cant tell you how close I was to saying, Well that does not look like it will be possible dealing with you, however, I was polite and did not want to burn a bridge, so I just shut up and let her talk.

I will have prob 7-8k in the stone and than I want to do a custom band semi eternity 75% around the band with smaller princess cuts kited and normal position alternating in plat. Prob run about 1500-2500 so its not like Im trying to waste anyones time.

Thanks for all the info so far. I truly appreciate it

Tyson
 
Date: 11/19/2009 9:57:50 PM
Author: Kelli
Just wanted to chime in that I''d DEFINTELY go for the AGS-0 for a princess. It''s much harder to judge princesses than rounds on numbers, so the light performance grading would be the most important thing for me.
Click to expand...

Im with you Kelli, I look at this way, I will be real close to what I want if I am only looking at the best cut stones. I dont have a problem stepping into a SI1 or a G color however I have learned on here that no matter how strong the color and clarity is if the cut is bad its all for not.

Thanks for the response
 
Date: 11/19/2009 6:38:06 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover


Date: 11/19/2009 5:49:06 PM
Author: JulieN



Date: 11/19/2009 5:24:23 PM
Author: Todd Gray
Want to have some real fun with the lady at the jewelry store? Ask her what her preference is for the number of chevron facets on the underside of the diamond and the relationship between the number of chevron facets and the resulting virtual facets... You can study up on this by searching for those terms here on the forum and no doubt you'll enjoy the total look of 'huh, what?!?!' on her face
2.gif
Click to expand...

cruel and unusual.
Click to expand...
Pricescope Knowledge Snobbery
9.gif
Click to expand...
Yes and ask if she knows the amount of facets a diamond has.
1.gif
 
To some extent, this example shows how AGS is failing in the promotion of its services.

Being the only lab that grades Cut on princess-cuts, and with their own research showing that the average princess-cut on the market would score AGS-5 or lower, one would think that this is a solid basis for a promotion-campaign.

The reality now is that they do not succeed in bringing this valuable message across, thus resulting in cutters not being pushed by more demand from jewelers and consumers to actually produce them.

It remains very lonely at the frontline, I fear. Then again, it sure is funny to read about professionals struggling with a knowledgeable consumer up to the level of claiming that the report-costs of AGS are higher than GIA''s.

Live long,
 
...diamond dealer is ding bat
9.gif
 
Date: 11/19/2009 11:51:22 PM
Author: Tysonko1
Its labeled regular rapnet and it has a column that says %disc next to the price per karet. Does this mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

Rap Net is a network which is available to diamond dealers and members of the jewelry trade by subscription, it is one of the Multiple Listing Services (MLS) relied upon and republished by many dealers so that they may advertise a "X thousands of diamond inventory".

Rap Net is part of the Rapaport Diamond Trading Network which publishes a diamond price report which is kind of similar to Kelly Blue Book for automobiles in concept, except it does not provide clear discounts or increases for Diamond Cut Precision or Diamond Cut Quality - these factors are left up to the discretion of the trade and can have an impact of as much as 60% upon the base price recommended by the Rapaport Diamond Price Report or what is commonly referred to as just "Rap".

On a trade member level, diamonds are sold by Price Per Carat (PPC) which appears on the Rap output as $/ct and there is a column which represents the %/Rap which indicates the relationship between the Price Per Carat and the Base Price on the Rap Sheet. The %/Rap can represent a discount off of Rap, e.g. -5%, or a premium over Rap, e.g. +10%, and from experience I can assure you that extremely well cut diamonds usually sell for a price well over Rap and poorly cut diamonds sell for a significant discount off of Rap (in trade terms we call this "in back of Rap" or "over Rap").

I''ve seen a lot of consumers try to make sense of Rap and I definitely have to say that time spent trying to unravel the intricacies of Rap would be better spent studying up on Cut Precision and Cut Performance and the relationship of Chevron Facets and Virtual Facets because Rap is a scenario where "a little information" can be enough to lead a consumer down a poorly lit dark alley - but since you asked
2.gif
 
Thanks Todd. After I posted the comments on rap I found good resource iinfo on here. I also found the service online. Its very similar to MLS ,as you mentioned.

I found a couple of stones online. I will post the info for opinions.

Thanks to everyone for the information.


Tyson
 
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