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movieds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
3
I have a problem where I have bought 2 different diamonds, and when I get them home, or when the sky is overcast, I get absolutly no sparkle. Just clear. These are good cut or better, I or better color, good (3rd out of 4)or very good symetry (4th out of 6 classifications).
I bought one at Spence (1.02 ctw.) and one at Mappins (.72 ctw). Mappins diamond sparkled incredibly more, but was 1/2 the price. Mappins diamond also had a beveled girdle. Do all diamonds go 'blank' outside of sun or special lighting? I have seen diamonds glitter with incandescent light, but not these. What is the problem?
I think that the Spence diamond was very conservative with both color and clarity, but not so on cut. Mappins was aggressive with clarity (according to my eye...si2 had an incredible amount of inclusions(specks?) under 10x loupe. Also, Spence diamond had a 59.9% table, much larger than any others I looked at and seemed deep or thick.

Question #2 : Will a smaller diamond of same ratings sparkle more?

Please help, because I am ready to distrust the help at the stores, but wish to be corrected if I am only naive.

p.s. Mappins had no flourescence, Spence was not listed and wife said had none or little glow under blacklight.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
I don't think I can completely answer your question, but I'm assuming you have a round brilliant?

Smaller or larger is not the deciding factor. A well-cut RB will sparkle no matter the size, and a larger one will be more impressive than a smaller one simply because there's more to flash. The Mappins one is more likely a much better cut than the other one.
 

Iceman

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,374
Question # 2 ~The size from 1.02 to 0.72 will not make a difference in the sparkle.

It might surprise you that most Jewelers are as naive as you are when selling a diamond.
No fluorescence , that is good. We do not need to add that to the equation


Question # 1 - Why your diamonds don't sparkle when you get them home, or when the sky is overcast, you get absolutely no
sparkle. First of all Welcome to the real world where your diamonds live , not the great lights and sterile conditions from the
store you just walked out of


This problem can addressed at a few different levels.

1. The diamond that weights 0.72 is half the price of the 1.02 diamond ~ Price has got nothing to do with the sparkle its what
ever the market will bare. Also every quarter mark the price of the diamond jumps. The diamond that weights .72 , has the .75
mark and the 1.00 carat mark to hit first that is why it is half as expensive.
2. Unless extreme the clarity does not factor into the sparkle nor does the color.
3. Just accepting Good, or better on the cut does not address the problem. We need more info on the diamonds and Just
comparing table /total depth/crown angle and pavil angle is no where near enough to say diamonds are cut well. The lower
girdle lengths can make quite a difference in the appearance of the stone, and enough of one that consumers can see the
differences when compared properly next to each other with the guidance of an expert. In fact what even would make it easier
is the use of the Brilliance Scope Viewer. Then differences are really easy to see.
Just the positioning of the girdle and its variances is enough to make a stone look different.

The the thing to do here is to look at the stones objectively ~ and not be influenced by other factors.

What it boils down to is how well it was cut and performs in the light. You don't need to be a gemologist to say 'this looks great
' or this is a "Dog"!

Find somebody that can look at these diamonds and give you an objective view.
 

movieds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
3
Thank you, both of you! Yes, it is a round brilliant. I was skeptical of the smaller diamond because they did not even have Sarin or other analysis available. Only their idea of grade. Neither was independent, but Spence would not give pavillion angles and Mappin's did not have either of the 2 grading associations appraisal available.
Both diamonds were looked in same ( SUPER,ultra-bright halogen) light, in same store. Smaller stone was more brilliant under equal lighting.
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324

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On 3/9/2003 12:21:56 PM movieds wrote:
Thank you, both of you! Yes, it is a round brilliant. I was skeptical of the smaller diamond because they did not even have Sarin or other analysis available. Only their idea of grade. Neither was independent, but Spence would not give pavillion angles and Mappin's did not have either of the 2 grading associations appraisal available.
Both diamonds were looked in same ( SUPER,ultra-bright halogen) light, in same store. Smaller stone was more brilliant under equal lighting.----------------
Moviedds-I have a question for you. #1 Are you comfortable ordering a stone on-line or through an on-line vendors. There are more options for you to consider this way. The broad knowledge your going to gain from getting input from multiple vendors. There are certain vendors that provide Sarin Data/Ogi Data for every stone they sell. Also vendors are now catering in the market by posting some of the most comprehensive info possible on a particular stone in order to help you "the consumer" to make a more educated informed decision. Examples Lightscope/Firescope/Ideal-scope images & Brilliance scope readings which measure White light/colored light/ & scintillation along with 5 different light views of the diamond. I have dealt with 1 particular vendor but will add DBOF, SuperBcert, & GoodOldGold all have this technology along with many other vendors. I don't mean to leave any vendors out but your options are limitless. Pricing on an ideal cut stone is also more competive in that you will get what you pay for in your range according to what priorities you have set in selecting your stone. With the competition I think in a way sharing knowledge and information and sites and vendors which keep the consumer informed provides somewhat of a "checks & balances in the industry" for the on-line vendors. I also believe that there are many folks who just take the word of their jeweler because Hey a jeweler is supposed to know what their talking about right? Wrong....I know I am babbling on but you mentioned that one establishment you were dealing with didn't have sarin data. A vendor should do anything in his or her power to accomodate the buyer. Along the lines of honesty thats what should happen but in some cases doesn't. I would highly reccomend you explore all your options and if you decide to go thru an on-line vendor read through the testomonials and decide for yourself. I feel you will have a much greater experience, but that's just my 2 cents...Sorry for rambling.............

-Josh RIoux
Sitka, Alaska
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792

----------------
they did not even have Sarin or other analysis available. Only their idea of grade
----------------

MovieEd, this quote of yours explains it all... Essentially the sellers really didn't know "anything" about the diamonds they were selling "only their idea of the grade" - that part kills us! Want a diamond that is blinding? Don't buy blind. Make the sellers step up into modern times and provide you with the information that you require prior to buying from them and if they fail to do so, don't buy from them. Losing sales is the only way that these jewelers from the dark ages are going to learn that they can't continue to snow people with "oooh, here's a pretty diamond!"

Diamonds need Ultra Violet light to truly perform, thus they tend to flatten out a bit under fluorescence lighting and outdoors when it is overcast and gray. Still, better cut diamonds with the right crown and pavilion angles will perform better with what limited light is available than diamonds that are poorly cut... You don't have to step up into the world of "ideal cut diamonds" to obtain better-than-average results, but it would certainly make your quest faster and easier... Find a local jeweler that will provide you with the Sarin / OGI results on the diamonds they sell and then punch that information into the HCA on this site, then compare your findings with some of the diamonds you find on-line via the PS Diamond Search and make an educated decision from there.

While we're on the subject of Sarin and OGI results, now that more detailed reports are available, consumers should stop accepting the "avery mailing label" version of the results... Full page reports that provide facet-by-facet measurements for the factors that comprise the crown and pavilion angle measurements (the high and low points of the averages) have been available for quite some time now and they enable the buyer to determine how "tight" the diamond has really been cut. For instance, the average crown angle of 34.5 degrees shown on the sticker version of the Sarin / OGI results could be based on a range as small as 34.4 - 34.6 degrees or on a range of 34.0 - 41.0 degrees, which option would you prefer? The tighter one of course
 

movieds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
3
Well, I appreciate all the help you have given me. We have made up our minds. I am happy with my purchase. That is all it boils down to. IF I could have made a purchase online (in the US), I would have been using the comprehensive photos and spectrographs offers. Unfortunately, being in Canada means paying more in duties than I could possibly save.

Thanks again for your fast responses! :)
 

WalnutCrunch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
48
----------------
On 3/9/2003 4:35:52 PM movieds wrote:

Well, I appreciate all the help you have given me. We have made up our minds. I am happy with my purchase. That is all it boils down to. IF I could have made a purchase online (in the US), I would have been using the comprehensive photos and spectrographs offers. Unfortunately, being in Canada means paying more in duties than I could possibly save.

Thanks again for your fast responses! :)
----------------
movieds:

While it's great to hear that you're happy with your purchase, I'll have to disagree that it's more costly for us Canadians to buy online from the US than to buy from retail stores like Spence.

Reputable online jewellers in the US such as: niceice, superbcert, goodoldgold, whiteflash, etc., have really high quality diamonds that are difficult to find in Canada, and they sell them for way less (even after 10% excise tax + 7% GST + 7.5% PST + shipping) than something of equivalent quality that can be purchased at a jeweller in Canada.

This difference in price will remain the same until more Canadian jewellers start offering diamonds online. That would create increased competition and allow consumers to compare prices (let's face it, there is almost no way for us to find out of a price we're given is a good price). But until there's more Canadian e-tailers (if it ever happens), the best way to get the most for our money is to buy online from the US, especially right now with our stronger dollar.

But even if one prefers to make their purchase at a local jeweller, we do have options here in Canada. If you look hard enough, you will be able to find a jeweller who sells great products and provides good service at a reasonable price. There are also waaaay too many jewellers who don't know their stuff, won't provide clients with information (still in the "dark ages", as niceice put it). But there are good jewellers around who will provide you with excellent service, products, and information at a decent price.

Anyway, I'm rambling too. My point is that we do have choices here in Canada, even if our prices are not as good as the Americans'.
 
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