Diamond advise please!!!

[kuvalda99]

Hi All,

First of all, I would like to say thank you for creating such a wonderful community full of helpful advice and positive feedback. This is really a pleasure!

I've spent countless hours reading through all the different topics on these forums and it's time for my first post.

I've been looking for a loose diamond with the following specs:

cut: VS1-VS2
color: F-G
cut/ polish/ symm: EX/EX/EX
H+A
budget: $12,000

I really need your help and advise on the following two stones:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1360508.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
(HCA score: 1.7)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2199926.htm
(HCA score: 1.5)

Given the price, this might be a really good find (although I realize that I am probably giving up on some tech specs). The question is - is it worth to spend extra 2-3k on a diamond with better paper specs and will it make any visual difference?

Really appreciate your help!

Thank you.

 

[yssie]

Both look nice. Would ask for hearts pic retake from JA, slight digging but clearly not enough to negatively impact light return or spread for weight, the WF is not sold as H&A so no need for that pic from them

What's the price difference, and does one vendor have the setting you prefer, etc? Also what are the upgrade/trade/buyback policies on the WF (I believe w/ PS it's case by case so you want to ask before purchase)

As for whether or not extra 2k is worth it on paper - only *you* can decide whether or not your eyes see differences, and whether or not the pricier one is more mind-clean for you! But at the end of the day you're buying the stone, not the paper! A blind test would be the only way, as once you have stone/price association you are likely already biased toward one over the other..

 

[Dancing Fire]

the heart at 7:00 is questionable.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Both look nice. Would ask for hearts pic retake from JA, slight digging but clearly not enough to negatively impact light return or spread for weight, the WF is not sold as H&A so no need for that pic from them

What's the price difference, and does one vendor have the setting you prefer, etc? Also what are the upgrade/trade/buyback policies on the WF (I believe w/ PS it's case by case so you want to ask before purchase)

As for whether or not extra 2k is worth it on paper - only *you* can decide whether or not your eyes see differences, and whether or not the pricier one is more mind-clean for you! But at the end of the day you're buying the stone, not the paper! A blind test would be the only way, as once you have stone/price association you are likely already biased toward one over the other..

Ditto all this.

 

[kuvalda99]

Both look nice. Would ask for hearts pic retake from JA, slight digging but clearly not enough to negatively impact light return or spread for weight, the WF is not sold as H&A so no need for that pic from them

What's the price difference, and does one vendor have the setting you prefer, etc? Also what are the upgrade/trade/buyback policies on the WF (I believe w/ PS it's case by case so you want to ask before purchase)

The price difference is quite significant

JA: $10,900
WF: $9,333

Both diamonds have AGS certificates, the only difference is that WF has Excellent for polish, while everything else is Ideal for both diamonds.

Most jewelers in Toronto, Canada swear by GIA reports... how does AGS grading compare to GIA?

Many thanks.

 

[yssie]

WF is AGS DQR report - different specifications for top grade than AGS DQD report (confusing, I agree!). Is purely proportions-based and doesn't include any light performance evaluation (like a GIA report). An AGS0 grade on the DQR does not have the cachet of an AGS0 on the DQD, stones w/ the DQD do carry a premium over GIA.

My choice would be the cheaper WF, it is clearly not a sacrifice in appearance/light return - assuming acceptable upgrade/buyback policy

 

[Dreamer_D]

AGS is as reputable a GIA. I am in Canada too and you see a lot more GIA, same in the US, but the marjority of top cut stones on PS anyways get sent to AGS because their cut grading scale is much stricter than GIA. Even though the DQR is not as fancy, the IS image for the WF stone is good and supports the high cut rating of the WF stone, eliminating any small margin of error the proportion based grade may have included.

I don't see a reason in this case the spend more for the JA stone, personally.

 

[farmer gal]

I would go with WF also. I don't think it is worth the extra money for the JA stone. I would check with WF about the trade in value of the stone though before purchase. If I read their website correctly Premium Select does qualify for their trade in, but check to be sure You will not be able to visualize the difference between ideal and excellent polish.

http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/lifetime-upgrade.htm#aca_es

 

[kuvalda99]

I would go with WF also. I don't think it is worth the extra money for the JA stone. I would check with WF about the trade in value of the stone though before purchase. If I read their website correctly Premium Select does qualify for their trade in, but check to be sure You will not be able to visualize the difference between ideal and excellent polish.

http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/lifetime-upgrade.htm#aca_es

Just talked to a WF rep... they are saying that only ACA and Expert Selection diamonds qualify for their life-time upgrade policy. But their website clearly states...

"We are so confident in the quality and value of the diamonds we buy for our stock that we offer this valuable benefit on all diamonds in our three in-house categories: A CUT ABOVE® , Expert Selection, and Premium Select."

... so thanks for pointing this out. I will give them another call tomorrow to find out.

 

[yssie]

I would go with WF also. I don't think it is worth the extra money for the JA stone. I would check with WF about the trade in value of the stone though before purchase. If I read their website correctly Premium Select does qualify for their trade in, but check to be sure You will not be able to visualize the difference between ideal and excellent polish.

http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/lifetime-upgrade.htm#aca_es

Just talked to a WF rep... they are saying that only ACA and Expert Selection diamonds qualify for their life-time upgrade policy. But their website clearly states...

"We are so confident in the quality and value of the diamonds we buy for our stock that we offer this valuable benefit on all diamonds in our three in-house categories: A CUT ABOVE® , Expert Selection, and Premium Select."

... so thanks for pointing this out. I will give them another call tomorrow to find out.

I think only their ACA/ES lines *automatically* qualify for the lifetime upgrade policy - definitely call and ask about this particular PS, b/c I was told that PS and virtuals are on a case by case basis when I asked soon after the PS line came out.

 

[kuvalda99]

I've also noticed that the AGS report from WF is dated back to September 2009. Is this something to be concerned about?

Does it mean that the diamond was sitting on a shelf for 2 years? or could it have been traded in recently? Although, I would imagine that if the diamond was actually traded in, WF would want to get a new certificate for the stone?

http://pics.whiteflash.com/jewelry/thumbnail.ashx?itemcode=ci_ags-1040373960029.jpg&type=certhouse

thanks all.

 

[yssie]

Possibly a trade-in, or a stone someone had called in from the virtual inventory that they didn't want, that WF decided to brand as PS?

The concern with trade-ins is that they may have acquired small scratches, chips from previous use that are not noted on the older report (the report does not indicate the current condition of the stone). A vendor might buff/polish the stone so that it does in fact match the condition described on the older report and resell it that way, esp if the existing report is more favourable, or might put it up for resale without any inspection/work, or might buff/polish and send it in for a new report... call and ask WF what the deal is, anything else is just speculation you can also inquire about getting a new report when you talk to them, if that is important to you.