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DHL charging customs duty on an antique item?

kipari

Ideal_Rock
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. The seller then messaged her and told her that she was just being emotional as it is the nature of women.

:sick:

What an ar$e!!!

I'm sorry that person is an idiot beyond the usual attitude...


I truly hope the item*Is* all that you hoped for and will bring you lots of blingy joy!

I'd love to see pics!
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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I believe that messaging a buyer about reviews like that is against ETSY TOU.
 
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Lookinagain

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I agree that the seller’s interpersonal skills are definitely lacking. But the way I read it technically his policy did say that the buyer needed to request that the customs forms be filled out to indicate it’s an antique. Not sure why he would put the onus on the buyer when he knows whether or not what he is selling qualifies as an antique. Is it that much extra work for him to fill that form out for all antique items he sells? I’m not sure whether you would have a leg to stand on to file a complaint given how that was laid out in his policy.

> Otherwise: INTERNATIONAL BUYERS – PLEASE NOTE: Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding/buying.


I disagree. He says the CHARGES are the buyer's responsibility. He does not say that the buyer has to request that the forms be filled out properly. Only that the buyer has to pay if there are duties, taxes and charges. That's fair. But he doesn't indicate in what I'm reading that it's up to the buyer to instruct him on how to fill out forms. All buyers would not know that and they would just assume he would do it properly and if a tax or duty or other charge was imposed, that they, as the buyer, would have to pay it. I see form filling and payment as two separate things.
 

Smith3

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Most of the items I sell,if not stated otherwise are Antique or Vintage. Many items are not subjects to import taxation as I often deal with original artworks and genuine antiques aged over 100 years.
On buyer's demand Customs forms for such items can be marked with customs codes 9701,9706 that id the contents as Antique / Art related,and not new or mass produced presently / recently.. Thus normally you will not need to pay your country’s import duties upon reception of such items.

> Otherwise: INTERNATIONAL BUYERS – PLEASE NOTE: Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding/buying.


This was his etsy policy. So yes, he knows there are forms to fill out. He knows antiques are duty-free depending on the country, which US happens to be. When I buy something titled antique and described as antique, am I in the wrong for assuming that the seller will declare it as antique with proper documentation for international shipping and customs?

I sell on Etsy and will say that as a seller and selling overseas that’s the blanket statement Etsy has for everyone. I would also like to mention, I have never had to fill out a duty form for Etsy. Etsy just takes care of it through the listing and I send it through USPS and then it turns to whatever Carrier that country has. I have insurance on my items, thank god because an expensive antique pin got lost and I pay for insurance on my own even though The buyer is supposed to. I stopped doing overseas because of the lack of control to track etc.
 

adlgel

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I disagree. He says the CHARGES are the buyer's responsibility. He does not say that the buyer has to request that the forms be filled out properly. Only that the buyer has to pay if there are duties, taxes and charges. That's fair. But he doesn't indicate in what I'm reading that it's up to the buyer to instruct him on how to fill out forms. All buyers would not know that and they would just assume he would do it properly and if a tax or duty or other charge was imposed, that they, as the buyer, would have to pay it. I see form filling and payment as two separate things.

The first paragraph on post 13 is also from the seller and that is where he says he will fill out the customs form as an antique if the buyer requests it.
 
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Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
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The first paragraph on post 13 is also from the seller and that is where he says he will fill out the customs form as an antique if the buyer requests it.

I assumed those were ean's words. I thought his policy started where it says "otherwise", so i misunderstood. If the entire post is is policy, then yes, he says the buyer should request it.
 
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ean

Shiny_Rock
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I assumed those were ean's words. I thought his policy started where it says "otherwise", so i misunderstood. If the entire post is is policy, then yes, he says the buyer should request it.

All he had to do was put in the antique HTC Code on the customs forms (All it is are numbers) to mark it as antique. My main problem with this is why would he use a different code and describe his item differently on the customs forms vs what he is describing it on his etsy store front.

Idk, this is wayyy too much stress for something that should be bringing me comfort and joy. It’s also 8:30pm and it hasn’t been delivered still (even though it says out for delivery), so I assume it’s not happening today.
 

Lookinagain

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OP, I'm not saying I like his policy but it will be his defense. If you really want the item, I would just pay the fees and mark it up to having a jerk for a seller. I think he should have properly marked the forms regardless. He knows what is needed and it should be part of his normal shipping. I do think, however, you should identify this seller, not necessarily because of his policy but because he was so rude in his dealings with you. Right or wrong, there is no call for that.
 

ean

Shiny_Rock
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OP, I'm not saying I like his policy but it will be his defense. If you really want the item, I would just pay the fees and mark it up to having a jerk for a seller. I think he should have properly marked the forms regardless. He knows what is needed and it should be part of his normal shipping. I do think, however, you should identify this seller, not necessarily because of his policy but because he was so rude in his dealings with you. Right or wrong, there is no call for that.

I get what you’re saying now about him using it as his defense. You’re right. For sure. I’ve paid the fees and will definitely leave an appropriate review and will identify him once the item is delivered . I have never left a negative review about anything my entire life, so that’s saying something. You all have been very helpful! Thank you!
 

blingmeupscotty

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Once the item is received, compose a timeline and a list of additional charges in addition to the ignorant "i'm not going to file the paperwork on that item because we're too busy even though I ADVERTISED you wouldn't have to pay antique item custom charges through this shipping vendor" email and item listing. Hopefully they will refund you. It is all still disputable because this portion of the purchase is still considered a fraudulent practice.

edited: This REALLY pisses me off-sorry :) Also-ALL of this documentation needs to be send to Etsys business department. This IS clearly a fraudulent practice. It doesn't matter what you call it - lazy, forgetful, on purpose-a seller shouldn't be able to advertise one price for the item AND shipping AND customs, then leave the buyer in a lurch because he 'feels' like it for whatever reason.
 
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lissyflo

Brilliant_Rock
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The seller’s responses to you have been downright rude and personally I’d be tempted to return the item on that basis. I’d also name him (I’m not sure you have?) so that others can avoid them too.

The initial antique coding is a separate issue though and I think he’s in the right there. Here’s headline info from a quick Google search - I have no knowledge of more detailed rules, but neither would your seller as he’s European and presumably sells globally, so can’t be expected to be on top of import tax rules for each country:

24285419-A61A-4721-8471-43C0D9DDA505.jpeg
I think you said the item was Deco, in which case there’s your problem: anything from the 20s and 30s is highly likely to fail the 100 year age requirement given we’re only in 2021.

I think the seller has described the piece as antique based on general usage of the word, not the specific tax usage, and that seems entirely reasonable to me. I thought the working definition of antique was 100 years, but I think most sellers would describe Deco pieces as antiques as the period is now approximately 100 years ago. The tax man doesn’t like ‘approximately’ though.

I’m in Europe and understand your frustrations in reverse with taxes on import from the US, but tax is ultimately your responsibility not the seller’s. If you knew the piece was Deco then a quick search before purchase would have confirmed that it would be taxed unless you can prove it was made right in the first year of the deco period. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I think the criticism of the seller in this thread (solely in that respect) is unwarranted.

I honestly think the seller did the right thing re the import coding: if he deliberately miscoded and can’t prove the item is 100 years old, then he’s potentially in trouble for deliberate tax evasion. His actions after that point are wholly unpleasant and dishonourable, however.

If the situation has tainted the piece for you, I’d return it and write off the shipping cost and any restocking fee in his policies. Otherwise, I’d view your 5% tax as a contribution to the US economy during Covid when it would probably be well used and enjoy your new piece (which we’d love to see pictures of!).
 
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Rhea

Ideal_Rock
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My main problem with this is why would he use a different code and describe his item differently on the customs forms vs what he is describing it on his etsy store front.

I sent something a while back and filled it out as "antique" when sending Fedex. Because it was labelled as antique I then had to prove that I wasn't dealing in pillaging of other country's valuables. Like they thought the trinket I was shipping was stolen from Palmyra during the Syrian war or something. It was a total pain and took nearly 2 weeks to sort with me signing and emailing declarations to customs trying to prove it was both original antique (which was really really difficult) but not a valuable artefact. It's like there wasn't a customs category other than "this is antique, historically priceless, and it's probably been stolen" and "this is shiny jewellery and therefore couldn't possibly be antique".

I'm not excusing the seller, I have no idea if the system is still like that, this was a couple years ago, and as a seller they should be able to deal with it better than I could as an individual but that was so not fun.
 

peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
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I’ve seen one recent review (after I had purchased my item) about a customer being disappointed that the item wasn’t as described and had a lot more chips in the bands than what was disclosed but she’s still planning to keep the item as it was a lot of trouble to return it. The seller then messaged her and told her that she was just being emotional as it is the nature of women.The review disappeared, idk if they’ve come to a resolution. I’m beginning to think there’s probably a lot more reviews like this that has since been deleted.

Another review was a person saying that she felt the clasp was flimsy on earrings she bought and that she honestly wouldn’t have bought it if she has seen it in person first. Seller messaged her telling her to never buy from his shop again.

To privately message people after they leave you honest reviews is absolutely DISGUSTING behavior.
I hope you took screenshots of these reviews, because I think you should report this seller to Etsy for unprofessional conduct and toxic behaviour.
 

ean

Shiny_Rock
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The seller’s responses to you have been downright rude and personally I’d be tempted to return the item on that basis. I’d also name him (I’m not sure you have?) so that others can avoid them too.

The initial antique coding is a separate issue though and I think he’s in the right there. Here’s headline info from a quick Google search - I have no knowledge of more detailed rules, but neither would your seller as he’s European and presumably sells globally, so can’t be expected to be on top of import tax rules for each country:

24285419-A61A-4721-8471-43C0D9DDA505.jpeg
I think you said the item was Deco, in which case there’s your problem: anything from the 20s and 30s is highly likely to fail the 100 year age requirement given we’re only in 2021.

I think the seller has described the piece as antique based on general usage of the word, not the specific tax usage, and that seems entirely reasonable to me. I thought the working definition of antique was 100 years, but I think most sellers would describe Deco pieces as antiques as the period is now approximately 100 years ago. The tax man doesn’t like ‘approximately’ though.

I’m in Europe and understand your frustrations in reverse with taxes on import from the US, but tax is ultimately your responsibility not the seller’s. If you knew the piece was Deco then a quick search before purchase would have confirmed that it would be taxed unless you can prove it was made right in the first year of the deco period. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I think the criticism of the seller in this thread (solely in that respect) is unwarranted.

I honestly think the seller did the right thing re the import coding: if he deliberately miscoded and can’t prove the item is 100 years old, then he’s potentially in trouble for deliberate tax evasion. His actions after that point are wholly unpleasant and dishonourable, however.

If the situation has tainted the piece for you, I’d return it and write off the shipping cost and any restocking fee in his policies. Otherwise, I’d view your 5% tax as a contribution to the US economy during Covid when it would probably be well used and enjoy your new piece (which we’d love to see pictures of!).

If the seller would’ve explained it to me this way then I wouldn’t have said or posted anything. Yet he chose to be unhelpful and downright rude so and there isn’t any excuse for that behavior.
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
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If the seller would’ve explained it to me this way then I wouldn’t have said or posted anything. Yet he chose to be unhelpful and downright rude so and there isn’t any excuse for that behavior.

It seems to me all he had to do in response to your inquiry is say that it is a deco piece and therefore he can't guarantee that is an antique at 100+ years and therefore he couldn't put that on the form. It seems like you would have understood that and moved on to pay the fees. I agree, it's his behavior that is the true issue here and again, once you get your item I hope you let us know who he is so we can avoid him.
 
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ean

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Here she is. To truly give you how much this seller don’t give two sh***, this was shipped in a DHL envelope (not padded or anything), with just the ring in the box. No other protective measures knowing it’s traveling to literally another continent.

Etsy seller is: https://www.etsy.com/shop/AtelierDeMontplaisir?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=869951913

Do these look like OECs to you? I am going by to the jeweler this weekend to make sure everything is as described.

C111AF5E-2165-493E-A569-AFB40389FF86.jpeg 921263EE-64C7-4C80-ACB4-F0D2EFE6AAAC.jpeg C476D329-2506-4949-B327-0400CFBDD373.jpeg E92ED99B-20F4-45EF-A235-EA9B31FACEEE.jpeg
 

Rfisher

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I see various table sizes and crown heights. Some I think I see open culet, others not. Some kinda look round OM/OE pattern kinda, some look a bit transitional...
They all kinda vary?
putting aside this seller being a stinky DB,
I think the total price paid would sway me on how happy I would be with what I see?
it looks lovely on you.
im judging my statements on the listing pictures.

it sucks to receive jewelery in not that protected packaging. I know! Not all PS loved vendors package that protected as much as you’d think.
 
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kipari

Ideal_Rock
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I see various table sizes and crown heights. Some I think I see open culet, others not. Some kinda look round OM pattern kinda, some look a bit transitional...
They all kinda vary?
putting aside this seller being a stinky DB,
I think the total price paid would sway me on how happy I would be with what I see?
it looks lovely on you.
im judging my statements on the listing pictures.

it sucks to receive jewelery in not that protected packaging. I know! Not all PS loved vendors package that protected as much as you’d think.


What she said!!

ALL of it!
 
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ean

Shiny_Rock
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I see various table sizes and crown heights. Some I think I see open culet, others not. Some kinda look round OM pattern kinda, some look a bit transitional...
They all kinda vary?
putting aside this seller being a stinky DB,
I think the total price paid would sway me on how happy I would be with what I see?
it looks lovely on you.
im judging my statements on the listing pictures.
Thank you! Your opinion is always so valuable. Listing describes them as all OECs, but they don’t all look like that in person. To me some look transitional (or even modern rounds) as well. I’m going to the jeweler this weekend (the only time I can) to see what they say. I think I’d be fine for the price I paid if there are some transitional cuts mixed in there despite not being described as so, but if there are RBs in here, for the price, I don’t think I’d be happy.
 

Rfisher

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Thank you! Your opinion is always so valuable. Listing describes them as all OECs, but they don’t all look like that in person. To me some look transitional (or even modern rounds) as well. I’m going to the jeweler this weekend (the only time I can) to see what they say. I think I’d be fine for the price I paid if there are some transitional cuts mixed in there despite not being described as so, but if there are RBs in here, for the price, I don’t think I’d be happy.


if you are feeling froggy- take a loupe to all the halo stone girdles to see if there’s any more modern looking ones that has a girldle that stick out like a sore thumb from the rest.
i think it’s due diligence to have a local jeweler test the halo stones.
where does one draw the hard line of where a transitional ends and a MRB begins? I’m sure there’s an answere here somewhere?


I have a halo has one stone that looks much more modern than the rest. Facet pattern, table crown and the most curious - the girdle.
he who rehabbed the ring, when questioned his opinion, told me it’s an original. Possibly repaired...
 
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junebug17

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Oh wow, it's gorgeous!

I feel the same as PPs, it looks like it could be a mix of different cuts? I see some that look like OECs to me. Sometimes damaged diamonds are replaced with newer cuts in these vintage/antique pieces. It will be interesting to hear what the jeweler thinks.

I agree with @Rfisher, can be kind of hard to distinguish between transitionals and RB.

It is a beautiful ring! I love it. I'm hoping you can come to a place of peace with this ring. I looked at the return policy and it looks like he won't accept returns unless the item is not as described. Not sure you want to deal with the ag that's probably going to be involved with a return.
 
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ean

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Oh wow, it's gorgeous!

I feel the same as PPs, it looks like it could be a mix of different cuts? I see some that look like OECs to me. Sometimes damaged diamonds are replaced with newer cuts in these vintage/antique pieces. It will be interesting to hear what the jeweler thinks.

I agree with @Rfisher, can be kind of hard to distinguish between transitionals and RB.

It is a beautiful ring! I love it. I'm hoping you can come to a place of peace with this ring. I looked at the return policy and it looks like he won't accept returns unless the item is not as described. Not sure you want to deal with the ag that's probably going to be involved with a return.

I paid the fees, I left my review, and I am taking this as a lesson to not buy anything from the Etsy seller anymore. If he tries to message me about my review, I won’t answer back, and will report her to Etsy. This is the end of this whole ordeal for me.

I am gonna get her checked and no matter what the outcome is, I am going to enjoy her for what she is. I am not going to tie her to all the negativity that I’ve experienced with the seller. Thank you all so much for all your help.
 

pokerface

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Truly appalling behavior from the seller. If you're able to move past it and enjoy the ring, good on you. I tend to hold grudges, and I don't think I would be able to look at the ring without feeling resentment. I would make sure you're at peace with the whole situation before deciding to keep the ring, because a memento bring joy, not stress or unhappiness.
 
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