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Desperately Seeking Expert Opinions On This.

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Jaded Gem

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
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Hello. Thank you for your feedback. Well, I liked the look of Asschers so I was in the process of purchasing one at Union Diamond that was .78, E, VS1. To me it looked like a very good cut for a very good price. And I talked to Tony Rixom who was very nice to me at the time. They didn''t have any antique settings so I looked around at other sites. I ended up buying a setting from Oxford Diamond Company. I couldn''t afford a Tacori setting and so I bought an off make of one that looked like it.

Here was Oxford Diamond''s description "This PLATINUM Antique Hand Engraved Custom Ring is perfect for your Solitaire Round or Princess Cut Diamond ranging from .75CT to 1.25CT.....It truly has the look of a Antique Estate Ring." I had liked the look, but of couse it wasn''t Tacori. That didn''t bother me since they said it was hand engraved nonetheless, and they had a refund policy. My big question, and one that bothers me now, was if an Asscher cut diamond was appropriate for this setting since the owner, Steve, at Oxford Diamond said it could take "Solitaire Round or Princess Cut Diamond ranging from .75CT to 1.25CT." So I e-mailed Steve with my measurements for my Asscher which was 5.23X5.15X3.28 mm. and he said that it would be fine because this setting was made for circular stones as well as rectangular and emerald type stones.

Then I talked to Tony Rixom from Union Diamond who I considered my trusty jeweler and I sent them the forwarded e-mail from Oxford Diamond Company which they (Oxford Diamond Company) said that any good jeweler would have no problem making it look like it was custom fitted.

Wanting more than Oxford Diamond''s advice, I told Tony that I needed his expertise in the jewelry business because I had none and I valued his opinion. He agreed to look at it and tell me his thoughts of what could be done. I also told him that when I placed the diamond into the mounting, the circular basket had stuck out and I didn''t know if that could have been fixed. I told him that the diamond and setting looked "mismatched" as if the diamond was too small for the setting or the setting was too big for the diamond. I didn''t know if he could rework the platinum head mounting area, but I trusted that he would get back to me with his thoughts. That didn''t happen.

So for awhile I kept everyone that I worked with posted and I thought, "great, I''ll order that setting and the diamond." I got the setting first and then I got the diamond. When I got the diamond, I took it down to Professional Gem Sciences downtown Chicago to get it verified and everything came out like the G.I.A. certificate stated.

Long before purchasing the diamond, I did the DIY cut grading on David Atlas'' website and the online emerald diamond calculator gave it a 1A to 1B grading. I also e-mailed Robert Hensley from findmyjeweler.com to verify that the price was good which it was very good. I''ve read books on how to evaluate and purchase diamonds and so I knew with emerald type stones that color and clarity would be important. Of course, I also knew that cut was above everything else. I thought I had contacted all the important people and informed myself through all the websites and through books. I guess I didn''t do enough.

And do you do know what happened to me next. Tony at Union Diamond had mounted the stone onto the ring which voided the return policy on the ring mounting from Oxford Diamond Company. Oxford''s policy was that if the ring was altered in any way then they would not accept the return which is understandable. But before Union Diamond mounted my stone, I told Tony that I didn''t have a problem returning the mounting if things didn''t look right, but they mounted it regardless which voided out the return.

So Union Diamond sent the finished product back to me the next day, and I saw this big ugly circular intrusion surrounding a square stone. I called Tony about it and he pretty much told me that it was the ring company''s fault for selling that mounting to me to begin with since there were so many problems with it besides that one. (I don''t know why he didn''t tell me this before when I told them that I could have returned the ring for a refund, traded in the ring, or bought elsewhere since I didn''t like the circular intrusion and asked if anything could be done.) I thought something could be done by informing Tony of the circular intrusion, but if not then I would return the ring to the manufacturer to get a full refund. Too late, UD mounted it.

And when I told Tony about the circular intrusion still being visible. Tony proceeded to tell me that the mounting was not hand engraved but cast. Furthermore, he said that the ring wasn''t manufactured that well, and that the ring mounting sold me out because that setting was meant for circular diamonds. Then he told me that he could cut the ring apart and solder and file away to make the basket square or rectangular, but in another earlier e-mail he told me that this jeweler couldn''t make a square platinum basket from a round one. That''s where I was confused and frustrated and some of my trust was lost. Then I was told that if I wanted it to be mounted in one of their platinum settings then I would have to pay whatever that would cost.

So to make a long story shorter, Union Diamond gave me back my money for the diamond and they gave me back my altered ring. They told me that I should be expecting that FedEx sometime today. I had to eat the wire cost, ring cost, verification cost, and the cost to send them back the diamond via insured mail. Not counting the ring mounting, I spent about $150 to $200 on this process, and I can''t return the ring mounting because it has been altered. And I have this "Carte Blu" for the diamond that I don''t have anymore.

I was hoping that they would set the diamond in one of their settings for free because of what had happenend to me, but they wanted to charge me. When I told them I didn''t think I should pay again, they told me that I was being "silly and rediculous." I was balling to both Tony and Scott on two different occasions because I was so frustrated with what had happened.

I have to say that Tony Rixom did talk to his partner, Scott Anderson about this problem. After a few days of thinking about my situation, yesterday Scott finally offered me a ring mounting from their company to be set in one of their mountings for free which they also said they would of course keep my old ring mounting that I purchased from Oxford Diamond. I thought that was great and I thought I told them so, but they changed their minds yesterday evening. Last night and today, via e-mail, Scott Anderson at Union Diamond said that the money that I had spent for my diamond would be returned to me with my altered ring. What can I do? I think I just have to look at it as not being profitable to them for them to set my ring correctly in one of their settings for free. My frustration means nothing and I have to accept it.

Now I will have a ring mounting not meant for an Asscher. I guess nobody thought to tell me this until I saw how ugly the ring looked. Maybe everybody thought that I wouldn''t notice such an obvious intrustion. So my words of advice is not to buy a ring with a circular basket no matter who tells you that it''s meant for a rectangular or square stone. Maybe trusting your jeweler is one that is meant to develop over time and that sending products off to others relies on your expectations of what will be fully disclosed to you. There may be things that won''t be told to you until after the fact despite you wanting and asking for second opinions.

And as much as studying diamonds took me, I wish I studied the mountings more because nobody told me this wouldn''t work until after the fact, even when I told the jewelry experts that it didn''t look right to begin with. But again, I wanted a second opinion(s) and it cost me. Maybe I learned not to be so trustworthy from this transaction. Both diamond and ring parties have blamed each other for this mishap, but I think I feel the greatest loss of all. Maybe I shouldn''t ask so many questions because I might not be told the full story or things may not be disclosed to me even though I am the customer who is asking to be informed.

I guess second opinions even from the jewelry experts can be costly. So I''ve gotten over being frustrated. I guess I just thought I would inform newbies or people who think they''ve done everything possible that events such as this scernario like mine can happen. I would hope not for your sanity. And I guess I shouldn''t try to put together another ring again because things like this could happen even when you only deal with two vendors. What are your thoughts?
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I am very sorry to hear about this situation. It's a real shame!
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My suggestion is to pick another diamond (I found a couple at www.niceice.com which are pretty close) and use that unfortunate setting for another little project.
If I understand correctly, it can be used again and it's not physically damaged... Well, take it to a nice jeweler and put into that ring a nice synthetic stone... Maybe a created Chatam sapphire or padparadsha. It will look great and you could use it as a right hand ring or could be a good ring to wear during your travels.
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If someone is buying on the net I always suggest him/her to get the stone and the setting from the same place... In this way you'll avoid problems like yours or risks of chipping. Be sure to get everything from only one vendor next time.
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Asscher 0.82 VS-1 E N EX EX GIA $3,750.00 $3,625.00 In House 68.1 62 44.1 17.8 53.2 46.2 SK-TK N 5.21 x 5.21 x 3.55 1.00:1.00
Asscher 0.90 VS-1 H N EX EX GIA $3,850.00 $3,720.00 In House 69.7 61 46.5 19.2 54.0 46.9 TK N 5.36 x 5.34 x 3.72 1.00:1.00
 
Thank you for reading my post and offering good advice. I guess it kind of helps me realize that things like this can happen and I guess doing it through one vendor is the way to go. Too bad Union Diamond couldn't let me have my Asscher diamond placed in one of their settings. I guess they changed their minds in one day on what they wanted to do. I still haven't got their return FedEx package yet. We talked about them keeping my old mounting so it wouldn't be too much loss for them, and I let them know that they could retrieve their package today with an aborted delivery and have it sent back to sender. But I guess they changed their minds and thought it was easiest just to return my check with the altered ring. Thanks for your kind words. Maybe I will have better luck next time if I dare try.
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Ouch. I'm really sorry you had to go through this. Perhaps you're going to have to find a setting locally, where you can physically bring in your diamond and have the experts there make sure it will fit before buying a setting. Good luck.
 
Jaded-- this kind of things happen! It sucks, but that's the way it goes... Next time it will be much better, I'm positive about that! Be sure to pose us all your questions and everything will work out perfectly!
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Now, don't discourage and keep looking... When you've done your extensive research, you'll end up having 2 rings instead of one! Not bad! Ha ha!
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Well dear friend, they took back the diamond and gave me my check so I just have the ring mounting left and my money. Not how I would do things, but hey who am I? The customer who is wrong this time, right? I guess it's this customer who is not satisfied, but hey I learned from the experience. And I hope posting my experience helps with anybody else who may think that putting together a diamond engagement or any ring for that matter is easy. Who do you believe? Do you believe that it's the ring people's fault for selling me a deceptively advertised ring, the diamond people for knowingly setting it incorrectly, or me for not knowing who to trust and who not to and not being in this business myself to know when I am being fooled. I guess it just wasn't financially or economically viable for the ring people to refund a ring with altered prongs and it was not a choice for the diamond people to try and place it in one of their rings.
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From your story, yes, it looks like it's not your fault. A part of responsability is of the peple that sold you a deceptively advertised ring, and a part is of the setter.
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On 12/23/2003 6:14:28 PM Jaded Gem wrote:


Do you believe that it's the ring people's fault for selling me a deceptively advertised ring, the diamond people for knowingly setting it incorrectly, or me for not knowing who to trust and who not to and not being in this business myself to know when I am being fooled. ----------------




It should not be necesary for any buyer to get into such technical details about their purchase: how to make rings is a jeweler's business! Getting a serious amount of info prior to buying is, of course, wise, but geting a second job to learn the trade yourself is out of this world. Not that I would have expected hand engraving on a ring at that price: the false claim of the manufacturer regarding this would have turned me away from their business asap. Usually one can tell from the photo of the setting if it is hand engraved or casted, and it's precise measurements may help check the fit with the stone. However, not every detail can be evaluated form a picture. The fact that exact info about the size of settings and technicals was not clear seems to have been the root of all ills. Otherwise, I can see myself in your position well enough.




You may be able to find a jeweler willing to modify the original setting, but I would forego such an option entirely. Chances are that you will loose even more money for a questionable result. No idea what you could do with it, but maybe the jeweler who ends up doing the job would have an idea... Damaged jewelry is not usually trashed, is it?


I am sorry you have lost the initial diamon: it sounds like it was a fine make. What are your plans?
 
Dear JD,

I am sorry for all your troubles on this. I guess this is the type of scenario that kept me from using an internet company. Yet, consistantly people post great purchasing experiences with Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and others.

I found it necessary to see everything together since I am very visual. I used a B & M, actually two. I was able to view 3 stones at first. I took the specs and ruled them out, but I fell in love with the setting I saw at the first store. I had them make the setting in my size, and then took the setting to a gemologist whom I had developed a relationship with. I gave her my specifications for a radiant diamond and we narrowed it down to 4 diamonds for me to look at but she gave me the specs on many more. This way I had the setting to look at with the diamonds.

I ended up with one of the most gorgeous radiant cut diamonds in a setting that I think is stunning. Yes, I paid more than I would have if I had purchased over the internet, but for me I got to compare diamonds myself and see everything together and I knew it was right. I would have absolutely driven the poor internet vendors nuts as I am so anal about things like this!!

I don't think you can blame yourself for this unfortunate situation. I do think that there is so much room for misunderstanding when purchasing this way, and maybe specifically emailing the vendors so that it is in writing and there is no room for misinterpretation would be in order. And then there is the timing issue! This has to be the absolute busiest time for the jewelry industry.

Hang in there, when you finally get the ring you want you will appreciate it even more because of what you went through to get it!
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Hello and thanks everybody for trying to make me feel better about this. Yes, to answer your questions. Everybody knew the dimensions of the diamond. Everybody saw the ring. However, I wasn't sure if a ring was appropriate for the diamond, and I tried to get a second opinion from my (trusty?) jeweler who I thought was Union Diamond. I talked to Tony Rixom (one owner of a two owner partnership) and Scott Anderson (the other owner) about the problem. They didn't think they had any fault or responsibility because the issue was not with the diamond that I bought through them.

I guess they didn't think it was their responsibility to answer any of my questions or tell me about the ring until I asked about it the third or fourth time that the problem was still there. I think working with somebody on a local scale may help me in the future. I think everybody, except me, thought this was a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell or Reveal" policy, but the problem is that everybody knew the dimensions of the diamond and chose not to tell me that this was the wrong setting until it came out not looking so great and the circular basket underneath engulfed the diamond. And the funny thing is that I asked about the problem and the ring people insinuated that the jewelry people could fix it. When the jewelry people set it in, seeing full well that it was not right, they still sent it to me looking like two thiings were thrown together.

Personally regarding the diamond company, I think they knew that they couldn't sell me any of their settings because they didn't have any antique settings, but then they didn't care to tell me all of the problems with the ring. And this is where I lost trust in them. Frankly, I think the experts could have said something at some point. Was it my responsiblity to tell them that something wasn't right and then for me to listen to the blame game I thought was very immature on their behalf. Nobody wanted to go forward and help me put it together anymore because it came down to money and this was a financial decision on their part. Yeah the ring appraised for $1250 from the company that I bought it from, and the process I went with the diamond verification, wire, and shipping came to about $150-$200. So my estimated loss came out to $1,400-$1,450. I think I lost the most out of it, but it seems that the two other parties don't care.
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Did you pay for the setting by credit card?
If so get it in writing that the setting is cast and not hand ingraved.
save a copy of the website that says it is spose to be.
Then dispute the charges with your credit card company.
 
Hey should I return the ring with the altered prongs when they offered me the refund policy on it if it wasn't altered? The ring people said that they would give me 100% of a refund if two of the following happened: they misadvertised and if the ring was not altered. Yes, maybe they may have deceived me by their misadvertisement, but the diamond company also had it altered. Couldn't the ring people say, "well, that's too bad, we would have done a refund, but you set a diamond in, you took it out, and now you want a refund for something that has been altered, too bad." Can I still dispute a altered ring?
 
Depends on the credit card company.
A lot of the time they will just refund your money and do a charge back with virtualy no questions asked.
It is worth a shot.
At this point you dont have a lot to lose and $$ to gain.
 
Yeah, but I feel bad because the item was altered and I guess they did say they would refund me all my money if it wasn't altered. How would you go about this? I guess even though I do feel very cheated out of this transaction, I don't want to be like the other people that I dealt with. Some people might think I have a weak heart, but I guess I am not here to get revenge even though people have lied to me or did not choose to tell me the truth on more than one occasion. What would you do?
 
Id get my money back anyway I could even if I lost more money in the deal they would feel my pain :}

First thing you need to do is talk to them they might just refund it to avoid problems.
If that dont work there is the credit card company and the bbb and lawyers.
Pre-paid legal services is cheap for this kinda stuff.
 
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On 12/24/2003 11:02:53 AM Jaded Gem wrote:

Yeah, but I feel bad because the item was altered and I guess they did say they would refund me all my money if it wasn't altered. How would you go about this? I guess even though I do feel very cheated out of this transaction, I don't want to be like the other people that I dealt with. Some people might think I have a weak heart, but I guess I am not here to get revenge even though people have lied to me or did not choose to tell me the truth on more than one occasion. What would you do?----------------


But they told you it was hand engraved right? They also told you that it would work with your stone. So, it's not that you're out for revenge, but you want to get your money back!
 
Merry Christmas and Have A Happy New Year. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I really appreciate every single word of advice from everyone who posted feedback on both sympathy and advice on how to proceed going forward. For the longest time, I felt through my e-mails and talks to both ring and diamond vendors that I was just so dumb about this whole deal and maybe I was to blame for not being in the business and for not knowing what they knew. But I actually did do a lot of research on trying to put a ring together by reading posts here on Pricescope, Diamondtalk, other websites, and researching on my own through books. I guess I am learning from this experience, and I am glad to share it with others. But I really really am thankful that people who are strangers to me are so willing to help with any type of advice and also give such kind words while helping me through this. I think that has made my Christmas. It is not that I did not get an engagement ring put together correctly, but that people actually care about other people and are actual willing to take time out of their hectic schedule to help me. Thank you, and I'm trying not to cry or get sappy but "God Bless your caring heart."
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Your welcome.
Please keep us updated on what you decide and what the responce is.
 
Hello everyone. Here is what is happening as of now. Union Diamond said that I should receive my ring (without diamond) with the check for the diamond. I guess I'll get it today since FedEx has been bogged. They told me that they retouched the prongs as if a diamond has never been set. This information is a little late since I told the ring people that a diamond was set before and now it's taken out. Also I want to be honest about what is happening even though other people were not honest with me before. I told the ring people that the ring's prongs were redone to look new and unset as when I received it, and that I will argue the statement that the ring was not hand engraved but cast. The ring people never replied to that statement so I guess it is safe to assume that they agree on misadvertising the ring as hand engraved. The ring people are still standing firm on their no refund on this ring. I guess I have notified them on what I thought they should do, but they aren't doing so I will have to pursue this claim via my credit card company. Do you think I did the right thing?
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Sounds good to me.
Keep on it until you get your money back on the setting.
Your doing the right thing.
 
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Thanks strmrdr! You are one ideal rock! I will pursue this and let you know what the outcome turns out with. Thank you and others so much for the excellent advice and support. I don't think I would have had the courage to do this alone, but thank you for supporting me.
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The position of the ring maker makes no sense to me: could they be so complacent as to let the credit card company run the course of the dispute? If they may have the least interest to cut this short and satisfy your complaint, the easiest way would be for them to replace rather than refund the setting. I have no idea how long it would take for you to recuperate your money via the credit card company. Would you consider asking for a replacement (with the argument that the ring is now in "as new" condition)? Of course, I have the least imaginable regard for the attitude of the ring maker this far (and serious doubts about their product and worse impression on their representation, etc.
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). However, I would still try such an easy way out, if it is not completely repellent for you by now.

All in all, I would not worry at all about whether having had the setting modified would nullify your request for a refund: obviously the product was misrepresented (by two false claims about it fitting your stone and the engraving technique, as previous posts noted) and you must have a hoard of e-mails proving it by now.
 
Thank Valerie101! Yeah, I don't want to buy another product or exchange this ring for another one from the ring people because they did lie to me on several occasions. To tell you the truth, they said that they would refund me my money only if two conditions were met: that I sized it for them as a 6.5 ring size (I am guessing so that they can resell it again at a more popular size versus a size 5) and then pay them for the shipping that I had paid originally to send the ring to me which was $9.50 since they would do a full refund with shipping (I don't know why they just don't subtract $9.50 from the selling price). I told them that I would pay for the cost of shipping back to them and send a money order for the $9.50 original ship cost, but that I thought it was not wise to alter the size of the ring since it most likely would affect their cast engravings on the side. Plus I did not think it was my responsibility to size it for them at my cost. When I was sent the ring, it was a size 5, and it still is a size 5 now. That was how they sent it to me. I don't understand their logic and I think it is a ploy that they hope the jeweler who sizes it up will mess up which would void the refund entirely. I said that I would just let my credit card company handle this claim if they would not accept the ring as the condition as how I received it: new, same prongs, same size, etc. Your thoughts on this?
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I never dealt with a CC refund: if you think this works, than it probably is the easiest way. Otherwise, I believe you are right not to have the ring sized for them. How much can sizing be? Surely the maker of the ring can do the sizing themselves, so the whole thing does not make any sense. If you agree at all with this scheme, maybe just tell them that you prefer to ask them for the sizing and cite what you believe is a fair price? this should deter them form asking it: and this should be a petty expense even if they agree. I expect them to agree to the refund if confronted with little more pressure from you (if they already offered this version). Sorry to hear about this most unpleasant experience...


I would not even dare suspect this mindless organization of a complicated ploy: after all, they are going for such an unusual refund "technique" (yeah, it is easier for an inexperience clerk to refund the full expense rather than tinker with the shipping component, but courtesy should be their job, right?!).






PS: My whole attitude is probably to lenient (disclaimer here). However, I happen to work often in completely lawless countries (Eastern Europe, South America, central Asia and worse) so I would probably never think twice about bargaining by now... Two years in the US did not cure this behavior, as you ca see...
 
Yeah, I can see your point. I have offered them the money order that they have requested, and I can only wait to see what they say if I don't size it for them. I think I can only offer the facts here to both them and my credit card company. Yes, they have my cash and the power to refund or not. I have been very polite to them always "thanking them for their time and assistance" even though they have never offered a logical way of solving this issue. I don't like to get mad or angry even though I think most people would be cussing to them and themself if this had happened to them. I have tried to remain as calm as possible knowing that some people will try anything for a dollar. However, I also believe that all people are not perfect and that they can change their minds and do the right thing. I guess I would hope that they see this case as an example of how they should not deceive any of their customers in the future. But like I said, this is my hope. If the ring people thought it was okay to deceive me then that is also fine which I will respect and let the credit card company deal with them as a "fraud" issue. I have notified them and I believe the ball is in their court. I refuse to volley back and I have replaced myself with a bigger and stronger opponent for them to deal with: my credit card company. Thanks for your advice, Valerie.
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Sounds like you are doing the right thing, judging from the satisfactory response you have got by now. If this kind of deceit is NOT the way this company does business for a living, they should go forth with the refund. I surely hope this happens. Good luck!

What are your plans for getting a ring ? Will you stil be looking for one after this is (hopefully soon) over? Surely the Pricescope folk could help with an idea or two...
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Actually, I would just let the credit card company deal with it at this point. Why put yourself through any more aggravation? I've dealt with a cc refund before and it was pretty easy. Call your company, to find out about the specific process. Basically, I sent them a letter detailing my dispute and included all of the emails, receipts, advertisements etc. I think the credit card people called me once or twice for more information and then I got my refund within a week. Make sure you have everything you need in writing and then contest it. In the letter, say that you are willing to return the merchandise, but don't wish to do so unless you are assured of a full refund. Good luck!
 
Hello Valerie. I still like the Asschers a lot (can't afford the real thing so I was hoping to purchase a square emerald cut), and judging from this experience, I will just continue to like them from afar. The Royal Asscher company supplies a store (Lester Lambert?) with their Royal Asschers, but the last time someone called with a "cheap price" for a Royal Asscher it was at least a starting price of 10K. So that is why I wanted to put my ring together because I didn't think little ol' me would feel secure or was worthy of having this 10K diamond on my finger. Anyway, I have told myself with a lot of convincing after this experience that I may just be happy with a plain platinum wedding band. So I think, based on fears, I will just concede with not trying to put one together. Any thoughts?
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Thanks sxn675. I think I will do that step that you had advised with the credit card company. Thank you for offering me this advice because that is what I was thinking that I could do at this point. I'll try to remain positive through this and I just want to thank everyone for being so supportive of me. Thanks!
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I am soooo sorry for you that this whole experience has been so dreadful.
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SXN is absolutely correct. A Credit Card dispute is fairly easy to do. Call the CC company and notify them of the problem. They might put a hold on the charge and interest right now. The CC company will probably want a letter and the types of info SXN referred to above. Get with your CC company and get the Dispute process started ASAP!
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I think you were right to not have the ring resized. If you bought a size 5, return it as a size 5.

I hope you get the whole situation resolved as quickly as possible.
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