Depressed....again...

[greengirl]

Just wanted to edit my post because I am taking all of your wonderful advice and working on myself right now. I am thinking hard about my priorities, which I know my boyfriend is #1 of, and I'm focusing on the happy things in my life and also the important things going on with me instead of my jealousy of others and desire for a shiny ring and all that goes with it. Thanks for all the support!

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[BlingBlingMommy]

Sometimes it helps just to know you''re not the only one that gets depressed about this stuff.....which is why I check this forum, and why I''m replying to your post. I''m also in a long distance relationship and worry about all the things you do. Our reasons for being apart are different, but still brings up the same issues. His reason for living where he is is his job. My reason for living where I am is to keep my kids close to their dad.

Anyway, different situation, but I have lots of the same feelings you do.....as do many of the ladies on here. You''re not alone..... *hugs*

 

[ame]

Have you addressed your depression with him at all? Does he even KNOW you are pining to be engaged?

 

[MissAva]

greengirl, I have been at it quite as long. But at just over 4.5 years I definately know how ya feel. We have been apart more then we are together and sometimes when I am with him I forget little things that "normal" couples dont. Like to keep his foods in the house, and that he requires more then Mountain Dew to surrivive. I dont think you sound harsh at all. My SO is very emotionally aware and he knows I post on PS, he also knows that I post here becuase sometimes I dont want to start something, I just want to vent the way you are doing now. I know he wont read these things, he likes for me to tell him. Everyone needs to let it out sometimes and PS is a safe place to do so. You are not coming across as whiney or high maitience. No one here is wanting to judge. I would say look for a job in both places. Yes it would be fantastic if you could go and be with him at once, but your career is clearly vital to you. I would also agree that moving in prior to your engagement could be really detrimental to thing.
Do what you think is best for you. Vent as often as you like, that is what this forum is about, the ups and downs of real relationships. *hug* I hope you feel better soon.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[Munchkin]

ETA: Clearly I took FAAAR too long composing this reply as you answered some of my questions above.
Good luck!

Wow, Greengirl. Except for a few small details, you hijacked my story!

Are you ready for the longest reply ever? BTW I am quite confident that this is riddled with typos and misspellings. My brain works much faster than my hands!

Like you, FI and I met in college. After graduation, we spent 4 years long distance. (Together 6+ years total.) The final three years were because he was only able to find a job in his home state, while I got into an amazing grad school program that I could not possibly justify refusing.

Like you, the distance took its toll. There were points at which I genuinely wondered if we could ever handle being a couple in the same state, (never mind town!) as we had grown so accustomed to the distance. Plus, I was terrified that we would finally move near one other, and it would fall to pieces. When the date from which we would live a mere 45 minutes apart was approaching, I had all of the "I have no ring. I simply have years of 'I love you and and I want to be with you forever.' Why am I moving near to him? Am I risking too much on a 'someday?'" kind of thoughts.

I also kept seeing everyone I know get engaged and married. I had the EXACT same thoughts of "But they've only been together for XX months/years! That's not fair!" Then I would chastise myself and put on my happy/excited face for them. (Even that guy friend that you think will NEVER settle down - yeah, HE got engaged before us.)

Frankly, I also began to feel foolish. I felt like I was being strung along. I felt somehow less important, or childish being introduced as his "girlfriend." Everytime someone called me that, I felt like I was back in junior high.

Also, I felt like I was morphing into the pushing him for a ring, draggin him down the aisle kind of woman I had always mocked.

I also tried to be stealth about my identity here - but that's because I hoped he would find this website on his own!

I won't go into details about all of our long discussions on the topic, but I would like to toss some advice your way.

#1 You have spent the past fours years talking. I know, because that's all you can do when you live that far apart. I find it unlikely that you would have lasted this long without developing some pretty strong communication skills. Use them. I was shocked at how completely receptive and not-terrified my FI was was I said "I don't know exactly when this happened, but I am completely ready for marriage now. I have morphed into a waiting for a proposal any second, ring staring, reading way too much into any unusual activity on your part, knot lurking, crazy woman." Actually, I don't think I admitted to the knot part, that might have scared him off. I was careful to say, "you may not be in the same place, but I need you to know where I stand. Further, I need to know if you aren't ready. I need to know if you are truly sure you want to marry me, and what kind of timeline you have working in your head."

He may simply not understand where you are. Tell him.

#2 I would also tell him about the mixed feelings regarding his reaction to your specialty oppurtunity. I would probably phrase it something like "Please underatnd that I truly appreciate that you are so completely supportive of me and my goals, but I think part of me was hoping for a 'please don't go' type of scene." In truth, if I were in your shoes, it probably would have been a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. IE during our tougher times, it was as though he couldn't possibly make the right choice, because I kept changing my mind about what that was. Therefore, I was often cranky, when he simply didn't deserve it. In retrospect, I think I was just so tired of the distance and unsure of where we stood as a couple, that I was finding things to use my emotions on. If you feel like you have been snappish at him since, I would tell him. It may make things easier if he understands what thoughts are running around in your head.

Finally, you are questioning looking for a job out there, out of fear that things may fall apart. A couple of questions: How soon would you need to begin applying? Can you wait to make up your mind? You mentioned that you BOTH love it there, so would you he happy if you moved there and the two of you weren't together?

I would look for jobs by him. Keep an ear open for opportunities elsewhere, but look for jobs by him. You love him. Don't let "what if" fears impede a chance at happiness with a guy with whom you have survived four years of long distance. You may not have a ring, but you have string going clear across the country connecting his heart with yours.

Good luck!
Munchkin

PS My conclusion? Engaged and living in the same state.

Every day we see each other is like a holiday, since we've seen each other so infrequently for the past few years.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[MissAva]

Okay I am not trying to be rude or hurt your feelings, so if I come off cold or harsh I am not meaning it that way.
1) Will you move in with you SO if you are not yet engaged?
2) Will you move out there if you cannot find a job there?
3) What if you can get a job where you live?
4) What do you need from him to move back there?

 

[perry]

greengirl:

I tend to agree with the line of thought that Matatora has:

What is more important to you - and to him: A job in your chosen carrear, a location to live, or the other person?

If the job is more important that either you or he - then I suggest that you will have a rocky marriage. I have seen far to many people who obvioulsy love their job more than their spouse - and have seen the resulting divorces from that.

I suggest that you have a heart to heart, if not a gut to gut, talk and figure out yours and his priorities.

I know people who had nothing and low wage jobs - who made marriage work becasue they loved each other. I know people who are so big into their profession dripping with income that they don''t have a meaningfull relationship.

While my relationship with "D" has cooled off, one of the discussions we had was who moved where (she lives 6 hours away), and why. While the decission was for her to move here, it would only take one change in the factors for the decission to have been for me to move over there (and we seriously talked about that). But, the why''s were more inportant than specific jobs. I''d walk away from my job in a heartbeat should other things line up. It is only a job, and I''m sure I would survive and do well if it ended tomorrow (Job: Temporary oportunity to to make money and learn things until something better comes along).

Facts are that marriage and cohabitation do not cost that much (in fact: two can usually live together in a modest setting for about 1.5 the cost of one living in a similar modest setting: which actually represents a savings from living apart in similar conditions). However, buying things just to be "cool" or to keep up with the "jone''s" can be very costly. Are the "things" he feels that he needs to buy actuall necessiities - or things to make you "fit in" and show "how successfull you are."

So have a good talk about where you and he are and what you actually want. What is really important: If you actaully can''t live your future without him, and he can''t live it without you - then who really cares what job or carrear you have? 30 years from now, even 60 years from now you will not be telling people that you wished you had spent more time with your carear. You will be telling people you wished you had spent more time with your family and freinds.

Perry

 

[jellybean]

There is another thing that worries me here: You said you are basically "iffy" about having kids. What are his thoughts? Does he want kids? This is an issue that you two have to be totally 110% in agreement on.

You have spent a lot of time and energy into your schooling for your career. If you settle down with this man and start a family, are you completely ready to put all that on the back burner to have kids? Having a career when your kids are babies is very hard unless you have them in daycare all day. Heck, even if they are in DC, it''s still very hard to do.

My husband and I did the long schooling route too. He went to law school and I pharmacy school after college. For me however, I wanted a career that allowed me the flexibility to work part time while my kids were little. Career was not first and foremost to me -- my relationship with my husband was. When I graduated from pharmacy school I had the opportunity to do a residency at an awesome hospital halfway across the country. Since my husband was studying for the Bar Exam, he could not have come with me. I had to make the decision whether to do the residency or stay here with him. I made the decision to stay here and have never regretted it.

We too went through the gamit of questions - when are you getting engaged, etc. Sure, I was jealous of all my friends getting engaged and married but I knew in my heart that when the time was right we would get engaged. In my case, he proposed a lot sooner than I expected him to.

I have had many people ask why I spent all that time and money on pharmacy school only to work part time. As I said, I have always put my family first and for me I am willing to put my career aspirations to the side and raise my kids. Am I sometimes jealous of my friends that are constantly buying new things b/c they have a dual income - sure. It is definitely not easy even working part time. But I am completely happy with this decision. You two have to decide what you want in the long run, not just if/when you move out by him.

I have a friend who also went to school for many years and her and her husband are now bringing up the issue of kids. She is 34, he is 35. He has always wanted kids, she said she did...but now since she is very successful in her career (and she has worked hard, long hours to get to this point) she doesn''t want to put that aside. It is causing some major issues between the two of them. They are seeing counselor because of it but all of us think the kids issue is ultimately going to drive them apart.

I''m sorry if I''m rambling, but what I guess I''m trying to say is you have to determine what is best for you. It sounds to me like you''re putting your career first, which I am not criticizing at all. You said you wished your boyfriend would have asked you not to do your specialty training. If I were him, I wouldn''t have asked either b/c he probably felt then he would be making things harder on you. Like Munchkin posted, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn''t.

You have to remember too that men work on different timelines then women do. For some men, it is very important to their self esteem to be successful financially and they determine their self worth on how much they make. For many men too, engagement = marriage, whereas for women it is two totally distinct things. What if you do move out by him and it takes another year to become engaged b/c he "financially" isn''t ready?

I like the questions that matatora posted. Be honest with yourself when answering them.

Perry - your post was very thoughtful and you have given a lot of good advice.

I hope things work out for you.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[MissAva]

I am glad you like Miss Ava, she loves everyone. They are great dogs, loyal and loving.
What I sense here is that it is his way of the highway. His comment about you staying out there alone seems selfish. Why should he not be willing to put in the same level of commitment that you are?
What if you moved in and a year later you were not engaged, what then?
also your comments about children worry me. I would ask him what he would do if at 30 you were not ready to have children.
The other issues about the bar and what not sound like you are trying to think of reasons why not to stay where you are. I will write more later when I have the time, it sounds like you have a lot of thinking you need to do.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[caligal]

I''m so sorry you were frustrated- but glad you found some great women on this forum to talk with. Aren''t they awesome?!

I think continuing to communicate with your boyfriend and get you both on the same page is good- and you don''t have to explain why you are frustrated. That is a long time to be long distance! We all want to be in the "big girls married club" so we understand!

 

[allycat0303]

Hey Greengirl,

Welcome to Pricescope! I think it just sounds like the timing isn`t quite right yet. People would ask me why my boyfriend and I (we were together for 10 years) weren`t engaged yet. I`m 25, so young still. I think part of it was money, but also that I wanted to finish school, etc. I just had other things going on. I think a lot of us want to have carreers and sometimes it just doesn`t happen that school and relationship line up perfectly.

As for the money issue, it`s a valid point, but I think it also depends on what you are looking for an engagement ring. Is this an issue? Are you set on a very expensive/ elaborate ring? Icekid and I (who are both med students) made little compromises on our enagegment rings, to ensure that our boyfriend`s were within their budget. Don`t let the emotional/ irrational part consider putting the ring on credit. At the end of the day an e-ring is a luxuary item. For my boyfriend, he finished school, paid off student debts, bought a car, bought a house, and THEN bought me an e-ring. I`m lucky that he could afford what I wanted (or close

) but if not, I would have waited, or gotten engaged with something else. Whatever we both felt comfortable about.

I hope it works out for you, there`s tons of support on this board!

 

[perry]

Greengirl:

OK, so finish up your program and move out there pronto with your S.O.

Yes, you will have to retake the bar exam.

Yes, you will probably find that jobs will be scarce.

Yes, you may even discover that in general lawyers are not paid that well.


15 years ago, when I lost the career of my choice, I had several lawyers tell me that I would make a great lawyer - and should go through law school. I had been doing "volunteer" legal research for a national charitable orginization as part of putting together a package for orginazation to present to a major law firm on what their case was and why they wanted to fight (the lead lawyer said it was the best legal research he had ever seen by a non- lawyer, and was even better than many law clearks could do).

But, I did some research: Quite honestly, I was interested in 2 legal areas. Area 1 had almost no money in it - and was largly done pro-bono by lawyers. Area 2 would have required me to live in larger cities- places that I consider nice places to visit occasionally, but not places to live.

I also discovered that the "average" lawyer did not make that much money.

End of story, I did not go to law school.

But, I do wish you well in your carear. First, however; get together with your man - then build a life together. In the end that is more important than other factors.

Perry

 

[Buena Girl]

Date: 9/16/2005 12:57:22 PM
Author: greengirl
.....
I''m lucky that I''ve found a great man who I want to spend my life with. I know he feels the same way, but he is practical and rational and he''s not going to go out and buy a ring on a credit card just because I happen to want one right now.
...

My situation exactly!! Ugh, so frustrating, but trust me you are not alone! My b/f has been saving up since January. What''s that, 8 months or so?? The ironic part is that now that he has a pretty nice stash of cash, he is stressed about spending so much of it all in one shot on a ring. This is the first time in his life that he has felt financially secure. I am pretty sure he will be purchasing a ring in the next 4 or 5 months, and I think he hasn''t purchased a ring yet because he wants to have more savings built up so that he is not as depleted.

Just be prepared for that possibility. It''s frustrating when you know your b/f technically has saved up enough cash to buy your ring, but hasn''t purchased yet because he doesn''t want to go back to the same feeling he had throughout life and college of feeling strapped for cash. Hopefully, this does not happen for you! If it does, then come here to vent about it. You sound like you have a wonderful relationship and a great future ahead. It sounds like his plans are to get you a fabulous ring, but in his own time frame, is that right?

It takes so much patience to deal with "boy soon", and I think most of us have had a mini-meltdown or two. Completely natural. This is a great forum to vent on because many of us know how absurdly frustrating it is to be in this situation!!!

 

[blueroses]

Welcome to the funny-farm greengirl....you are NOT ALONE HERE!!!!! At this point (it''ll be 9 years next month for us) I just don''t have the energy to re-type my sad little saga

but I dug up this old thread which I hope will be helpful!!! HANG IN THERE!! ((HUGS))

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/boy-soon.25425/=

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[greengirl]

See above post for why I edited.

 

[platinumrock]

What is more important to both of you? Building a dream career or being with each other? Cuz you can''t have a dream career and dream relationship when you''re thousands of miles apart. You need to BE together physically. One of you needs to move soon. Be in each other''s lives...spend time, get to know each other again, be physically intimate, fight, make up, get on each other''s nerves then appreciate each other, be there during hard times and grow closer. And you are right, romance is crucial in keeping a relationship burning. It''s the little things that you do for and to each other that reaffirms your love and commitment. But there''s only so much romance you can do over the phone and internet. What about the snuggles during rainy days? Holding hands at the beach? Gazing in each other''s eyes over dinner? Or seeing each other at your very worst?

How much longer can you look at other couples and wish your man was with you?

I know it''s important for you to be happy and established with your dream career....but can you imagine your life without him? Can you imagine him being someone else''s husband? If yes, then stay where you are and look for local prospects. At least you don''t have to move again.

Follow your heart....and do what''s best for you. Good luck!

 

[MissAva]

Romance can happen through the distance, there is something so wonderful about getting a letter, package, or flowers when you are not expecting it. But romance at a distance takes more work and planning then when in the same place. I am doing the long distance thing too but I dont withdraw from my SO. And he does not expect me to make all of the sacrfices.
I am sure we have all given you quite a lot to think about.

 

[ame]

Date: 9/16/2005 12:27:25 AM
Author: greengirl
Ame:


Thanks so much for listening. He does know I want to get engaged by the time I''m done with my program (in May 2006)....and I know he wants to get engaged too and start the adult part of our lives. But every time I bring it up he gets frustrated and says:


Greengirl''s guy: ''Babe. What does it take to get engaged?:


Greengirl: Um....some planning, and...


Greengirl''s guy: What else?


Greengirl: Well money I guess.


Greengirl''s guy: Yes, money. And what haven''t we had since we''ve been in school the last 4 years?


Greengirl: Well....money?


Greengirl''s guy: Yes. And you can''t get engaged without money. But I''m starting work in the fall and then we''ll finally have an income and we''ll be able to pay for bills and things we need and then other things can happen.



etc.....


So he isn''t a big jerk, and I understand his rationale......but I still feel emotionally drained about it. I try not to nag and try to forget about anything engagement/marriage related but its getting harder and harder. And I understand you shouldn''t buy an engagement ring or any sort of giant purchase on a credit card etc (unless its super necessary or an emergency) but although I realize that rationally, on an irrational level I''m thinking ''why doesn''t he love me enough that he''s so crazy about me he can''t rush out and buy me a ring on whatever credit/financing there is and sweep me off my feet?''

But see...that''s the part that bothers me. Its not about the love and the relationship. Its about the ring and the proposal. You can get engaged without money if you want to be engaged, the ring is just a ring, it''s not a good solid relationship or feeling.

It seems more like you are interested in the ring. You are cutting your affection for him down because you are mad that he won''t just propose and give you a ring. And you are trying to rationalize that to yourself and other people because you realize that is a major problem and you hate that you are feeling that way.

Pretty much my thought on it, asI stated in the other thread, is that you need to figure out if you want this person for the rest of your life. Because all that I am reading lends me to think that you could care less about whether or not it''s this guy you just want the ring and the proposal.

Im not trying to be rude, Im sure it comes off that way, Im trying to be realistic. Your priorities are not looking very good right about now.

 

[pharaoh]

Greengirl,

Your story''s pretty similar to mine, too. I met my bf at an internship one summer, far away from both of our homes. His home state and my home state were also far apart. I''d had a crazy previous year, full of awful dating experiences, and just wanted to have a nice summer fling to forget about all that. He''d had a crazy year too -- he was engaged and the girl called it off; they weren''t totally broken up but were allowed to see other people -- but he was also interested in a nice summer fling to decompress. Funny how things happen when you least expect it... we fell hard for eachother and after the internship ended and we were back in our respective states, he broke up with her, called me, and said he''d been thinking about me for months, and wanted to know if I would consider a LDR. He said even though LDRs are so hard, he thought I might be the "end all". I was incredibly torn... LDRs hardly ever work (I''d tried it twice, with great guys, so I was doubtful), but I''d never felt this way about someone either. He was incredible. So we tried it.

I felt optimistic because we were both in grad school, about 2 years away from finishing, so we wouldn''t be in it for an eternity. I started to realize pretty quickly that he was the love of my life. We have a fantastic relationship, I''ve never had something so good. The distance has been amazingly do-able up til now - we visit regularly, the cost is not so bad, we don''t cry or get sad, he''s an incredible listener, and we are able to solve problems over the phone. It''s amazing. When I tell people about our relationship I have to try not to gush too much!

The only problem is, that it''s been 3 years... not 2 years... and he''s still in grad school with no clear end in sight. It will most likely be another year before he graduates... and then the job search... who knows when he will have a solid plan for the future. All of a sudden... wham... a few months ago, I started getting incredibly frustrated and impatient because of this. The days seem to tick by, very slowly, I feel like the distance is killing me. His grad school is taking FOREVER... it will end up being 4 years apart, not 2. I sort of feel tricked. But I know that''s not fair -- you never know how long a PhD will take. He''s had a lot of unfortunate setbacks (difficult advisor, research that has not worked out...) But it''s been 3 years already, it will be 4 years... but it could be longer... who knows... the PhD thing is so unknown. He''s 30. All of our friends are getting engaged. I have friends with babies. I feel like an adult. I at least want to have a normal boyfriend who I can see when I come home from work. I thought a lot about moving to his city to be with him when I finished my school, but at the time he said that I should get the best job -- he said our relationship was doing fine and there was no sense in moving to be with him since he''d be done with school soon anyway -- so I just took the best job I could find (which is not where he is). It''s an incredible job and I am really good at it. I like it a lot.

Here''s the funny part, which may not make sense to you... earlier this year I bought a house. I did it because it became clear he had a lot longer in school (probably 2 years) and I had a lot of money saved up. I decided it would be a great investment - housing in my area is appreciating like crazy. He encouraged me to do it, too. So I''ve bought the house and it''s AWESOME. I love it so much I can''t even describe how great it is. And I feel very proud of myself.

So now I am stuck in my state, in my house, (surrounded by married couples and babies, blech! Didn''t realize that would happen if I bought a house!!) and he is plodding along in school, still unsure of the actual finish date. Everyone is asking "how much longer?" "do you talk about marriage?" Ugh. I hate it. He says that he wants to live together first before getting engaged. So that means I have a long time to wait, because until he graduates, he can only come out and visit me for long weekends. But, when he graduates and gets a job, it will probably not be where I live -- he wants to look for the best job possible, not necessarily where I live. I used to think that was totally fine -- I would be happy moving with him. We used to talk about fun cities where we''d want to live. But now I''m feeling attached to my house and am starting to feel a little hurt that he doesn''t put a priority on moving to my city.

It''s frustrating... I feel like I know him so well, and I love him so much, I''d marry him in a heartbeat. So I wish he''d propose. But I think for him he wants to finish one chapter of his life (school) before starting another (engagement/marriage). Also, I understand he wants the best job, but I wish he''d show an interest in the city where I live. But I guess he wants to look for the dream job. He says he wouldn''t move anywhere unless it could work for both of us, but he also doesn''t show an interest in looking for a job in my city.

I feel so unsupportive lately and so depressed. He''s got so much pressure on him in school right now (because the time is *really* ticking away and he''s got about a year before they kick him out) so I feel terrible for being depressed about the future, but I can''t help it. Every time he says he thinks he''s ready to start writing his thesis I get skeptical -- there have been many setbacks and false alarms (advisor says he''s not ready, wants him to do more work). I wish I could be encouraging for him, but I am starting to feel so tired. I find myself always thinking that I want to be engaged, like it would give me some kind of commitment from him. It''s so hard waiting around, because I feel like I''m depending on this so much. When I ask him "how long do I have to wait?" he says "I don''t know. I wish I knew when I''d finish". So, what? I''m supposed to wait forever? He won''t give me an absolute date when he will choose me over school. We are perfect in so many ways, we agree on kids, we laugh, he''s my best friend and he is always there for me.

I want to be there for him, just sit back and support him no matter how long it takes. But it''s waring me out and when people ask me "what''s the plan?" everything seems to be unknown. Nothing is definite. I''m a wreck.

Greengirl, I guess I just wanted to write because when I saw your post I understand how much you want to see that your guy wants YOU over work. Because then it would be easier for you to choose HIM over work. You are considering making a big sacrifice... leaving your program to live with him, with no engagement yet and no job. And for me, it''s the same. The best scenario for my bf is that he graduates and gets a fantastic job in a fantastic city... but in that case then after all of my waiting (5 years of distance), I will most likely have to sell my house and switch jobs. And then he will be probably 32 and me a little younger... and we''ll have to settle down, get engaged, get married... kids will probably be when we''re mid-late 30''s. Ugh. So it''s tough. I feel like I''m on the super-slow route, like you.

I guess I just wanted to take the opportunity to clear my head, tell you that you are not alone, and say thank you for sharing your story. It''s made me feel like my feelings and fears are okay. And I can tell you and your bf are very much in love, and that these kinds of issues do not signal a bad relationship, but are just very challenging. I feel very confident that we will both get through this. Communication is so key. Keep talking to him and try to be patient I guess. It''s so hard, but you''ve come so far. Do you think I''m crazy? Like you, I feel like I could never give him an ultimatum or break up with him. So I guess I just have to deal with it for a few more years? What else can I do?

 

[Mara]

In reality, getting engaged is free. It doesn't cost anything. What costs is the perceptions that are attached.

Personally, I feel like if two people want to be together, they will. You don't need a ring or money to be engaged. I know that for some guys the whole 'acting like an adult' thing or 'being settled' and ready to start a new life together is important, but I also know other couples who have been together since college when they had ZIPPO and even were in debt with loans but they knew they wanted to be together and gave each other $20 rings etc. Yes every couple is different but if a couple really wants to be engaged or be together or get married, they CAN and it does not take loads of money or a great job etc.

I really don't get the whole 'I need to be in a place in my life' personally...because to me that's all separatist thinking. For me it's all about building things together rather than fulfilling dreams separately.

Just my thoughts...good luck!

ETA: I see ame and platinum rock kind of also already said what I am thinking. Sure it's fab to have a nice ring and a nice wedding and all that but in REALITY that's not what life is about...especially after the wedding. It's about you and this other person making a happy life *together*.

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 9/21/2005 8:28:05 PM
Author: Mara
In reality, getting engaged is free. It doesn''t cost anything. What costs is the perceptions that are attached.

Personally, I feel like if two people want to be together, they will. You don''t need a ring or money to be engaged. I know that for some guys the whole ''acting like an adult'' thing or ''being settled'' and ready to start a new life together is important, but I also know other couples who have been together since college when they had ZIPPO and even were in debt with loans but they knew they wanted to be together and gave each other $20 rings etc. Yes every couple is different but if a couple really wants to be engaged or be together or get married, they CAN and it does not take loads of money or a great job etc.

Mara''s absolutely right.

We were engaged without a diamond ring (we got one after we''d been married several months) and had a very modest wedding indeed. It wasn''t even about money in our case; we wanted to be engaged and knew that finding the perfect ring would take months, so we just went for it without one. We could have afforded a much more lavish wedding, but neither of us wanted one. So it can be done without a lot of expense on ring or wedding, if the commitment is what''s important to you (as it was for us) rather than the material trappings.

But you do need a man who wants to commit as much as you do. You need to establish whether money is the only thing holding him back (because he thinks you want a fancy-schmancy ring and wedding but he can''t afford that) or whether he genuinely just isn''t ready.