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Ideal_Rock
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- Aug 31, 2005
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EBree, pertussis is not one I would mess with. I looked up some info on that awhile back, and it was just scary. I would get him the vac.Date: 8/19/2009 9:52:45 PM
Author: EBree
My son (two months old today) had a doctor''s appointment for his first shots. I''d already discussed wanting to space them out with the doctor, but found myself less prepared than I''d have liked for the decision today. I like Dr. Sears'' ''delayed/spaced'' schedule, but when I mentioned it to Henry''s ped., she recommended her own version of Sears'' schedule, which goes:
Hib/Prevnar: 2, 4, 6 months
DTaP/IPV/Hep B: 7 months
...and that''s as far as we got (other vaccines coming later). Dr. Sears plan is similar, but calls for DTaP and Rotovirus at 2, 4, and 6 months, with Hib and Pc at 3, 5, and 7 months.
I OK''ed the Hib and Prevnar, but now I''m wondering if I should ask for DTaP before 7 months, Pertussis being my main concern. My son is in a low-risk category as it is (BFed, stays at home) but I hear Pertussis can be pretty awful, especially for an infant.
Date: 8/19/2009 10:34:36 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
No debate sought, but in short, what is the general reason to choose a spaced/selecting schedule? Just curious.
Date: 8/19/2009 10:37:23 PM
Author: neatfreak
Date: 8/19/2009 10:34:36 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
No debate sought, but in short, what is the general reason to choose a spaced/selecting schedule? Just curious.
I also am curious about this as I haven't seen any research to support it yet; but it's a popular idea among many moms who I think are pretty smart. So I will be watching this thread as I am curious...
6 seems like a lot. I didn't think Amelia EVER had 6, but looking at her vac record, it says....Date: 8/19/2009 10:56:25 PM
Author: EBree
TGal- I've heard some pretty scary things about it too, and was fully prepared to OK it for Henry today. He won't be 7 months until the middle of January, and I'd like him to be protected before that.
dreamer and neat- When we went for Henry's first visit (at three or four days, I believe) they gave us a schedule of vaccines they recommend. There were six to begin with, all at once. That sounded like a lot to me, and if he were to have a reaction, how would we know which was the culprit? I started to do some research, found Dr. Sears' schedule, and what he explains (that I've posted below from his website) makes a lot of sense to me:
The main difference in my suggested alternative vaccine schedule is it spreads the infant vaccines out over the first few years of life, instead of bunching them all up in the first 18 months. It gives fewer vaccines at a time, gives the most important vaccines first, and slightly delays the less important vaccines. But ultimately the end result is the same - a fully vaccinated child. What are the benefits of my alternative schedule compared to the standard one?
- By only giving two vaccines at a time (instead of as many as 6), I decrease the chance of chemical overload from grouping so many vaccines chemicals all together at once. This allows a baby's body to better detoxify the chemicals one or two at a time.
- I give only 1 aluminum-containing vaccine at a time (instead of the recommended 4). Overloading on this metal can be particularly toxic to the brain.
- I give only one live-virus vaccine component at a time to allow the body's immune system to better handle the live viruses in these vaccines.
- Giving fewer shots at a time may decrease the side effects, in my experience.
- Giving fewer shots at a time also makes it easier to figure out which vaccine a child is reacting to if a severe reaction occurs.
I'm not too worried about autism. I know the doctor who found the link falsified the data. Plus, the vaccine in question- MMR, correct?- isn't given for a while, so I have a bit more time to research it.
And that's the name of that tune. I don't mean to offend/anger anyone going with a more traditional schedule, this is just what felt right to me. Obviously, babies have and continue to do just fine with traditional schedules.
My ped says it does come separately but it is more expensive for you (as you have to come in at different times to get the kids his shots) and they are harder to get, as supply can be low of any one of them. I asked my doc about this early on. After discussing it with him, I opted to have Amelia get the regular MMR.Date: 8/20/2009 1:48:50 AM
Author: EBree
neat- I think the biggest concern is the amount of aluminum in certain vaccines and if the amount in the ''bundles'' is truly and completely safe, as there seems to be no solid proof either way. I also want to be able to better pinpoint the cause of a reaction, if one occurs. I never had any serious reactions to a vaccine, but my husband did, to his tetanus booster. He experienced a two-week-long migraine after receiving the shot as a pre-teen.
Kaleigh- When you say spaced out, do you mean he received the M, M, and R separately? It only comes in a single shot now, apparently- I would have preferred one at a time.
Date: 8/19/2009 10:34:36 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
No debate sought, but in short, what is the general reason to choose a spaced/selecting schedule? Just curious.
I opted to go with what Health Canada recommends, which all kids get here as a matter of course, and I actually have no idea what the shots were! Didn't think much about it.
Date: 8/20/2009 11:51:48 AM
Author: EBree
I''m also undecided on Varicella, and I''m leaning toward delaying Hep B for a while. I asked a nurse why infants are scheduled to receive the vaccine shortly after birth and she gave me two reasons: one, to protect babies whose parents have the disease (we don''t), and two, because they''re assuming that once the parent(s) leave the hospital, the baby won''t be receiving up-to-date medical care (H will), so they''re ''doing it while they can.'' The chances of him coming into contact with infected bodily fluids as a baby are very, very slim, so I think it''s safe to hold off until he needs it for school.
Date: 8/20/2009 12:29:05 PM
Author: Rhapsody
Another problem with Hep B is that it can remain infectious for weeks on a surface that was contaminated. Most other viruses and bacteria don't have the viability outside of the body that Hep B has. So even if your child doesn't have much contact with other children/adults, infection is still entirely possible. I know 7 months doesn't seem like that long of a time, but unless you plan to keep your child in a bubble there is a lot of chance for exposure.
Hehehe, I know a lot of people like Sears. It''s just my personal preference. And I say crackpot loosely, in the sense that I think the guy is responsible for quite a bit of guilt in some of today''s moms!Date: 8/20/2009 11:51:48 AM
Author: EBree
TGal- Good to know they''re still available separately. I don''t mind an extra cost, so I guess I''ll talk to his ped. about what she''d advise. As far as concerns go, I''ve got a few, some of which Sears addressed above (which I''d had before even starting the research). I agree with the dangers of not vaxxing at all, but I''m not too concerned with exposure in the small windows of time between delays- for example, his spaced schedule has IPV (Polio) given first at 9 months instead of at 2 months. Not a large enough window to be too worried about, especially as H won''t be in daycare or interacting much with other children before that time.
Here''s what Dr. Crackpot () has to say about aluminum: Aluminum Information from The Vaccine Book![]()
Lysser- I''m glad you found a flexible pediatrician. That was important to me, too. I''m also undecided on Varicella, and I''m leaning toward delaying Hep B for a while. I asked a nurse why infants are scheduled to receive the vaccine shortly after birth and she gave me two reasons: one, to protect babies whose parents have the disease (we don''t), and two, because they''re assuming that once the parent(s) leave the hospital, the baby won''t be receiving up-to-date medical care (H will), so they''re ''doing it while they can.'' The chances of him coming into contact with infected bodily fluids as a baby are very, very slim, so I think it''s safe to hold off until he needs it for school.
I''m sure my hesitance makes me look like an alarmist to some, but I''m okay with that. I''ve got to do what feels right while also being responsible, which is why he''ll be vaccinated- just on a different schedule.
For Mandarine, Lysser and anyone interested, here''s a timeline from US News & World Report comparing Sears'' delayed schedule with the CDCs, as well as a link to the article:
A Parent''s Guide to Managing Vaccinations
Date: 8/20/2009 12:44:12 PM
Author: EBree
Date: 8/20/2009 12:29:05 PM
Rhapsody,
That''s interesting (and scary!)- thank you for bringing it up. The WHO gives it a life of about a week but notes it ''does not cross the skin or the mucous membrane barrier.'' So while the chance of exposure is there, it''s still very low. Something to consider, though, absolutely. I haven''t completely made my mind up yet; I''ve got more research to do.
No, it wont cross non-disrupted skin, but all it takes is a scratch to break that barrier. I just looked at the CDC data at it says "at least 7 days", it can live much longer depending on the conditions. I work with human tissues, and we have insane protocols for disinfecting all surfaces and tools we use because of the risk of infection. Hep B is pretty nasty, and infants have a 90% chance of developing the chronic disease if they are infected.
I see nothing wrong with spreading the vaccine schedule out if it makes you more comfortable. But please dont wait too long. A lot of parents like to convince themselves themselves that "it wont happen to my child" and I think that''s a big gamble.
I don''t have kids yet, but when I do they will receive all their vaccines as soon as they can, because all my research indicates that the risk from the vaccines is lower than the risk of serious complications from any of these preventable diseases.
Date: 8/20/2009 1:19:27 PM
Author: Rhapsody
No, it wont cross non-disrupted skin, but all it takes is a scratch to break that barrier. I just looked at the CDC data at it says ''at least 7 days'', it can live much longer depending on the conditions. I work with human tissues, and we have insane protocols for disinfecting all surfaces and tools we use because of the risk of infection. Hep B is pretty nasty, and infants have a 90% chance of developing the chronic disease if they are infected.
I see nothing wrong with spreading the vaccine schedule out if it makes you more comfortable. But please dont wait too long. A lot of parents like to convince themselves themselves that ''it wont happen to my child'' and I think that''s a big gamble.
Date: 8/20/2009 1:37:06 PM
Author: EBree
Date: 8/20/2009 1:19:27 PM
You''re absolutely right about not waiting too long, and that is precisely why these decisions have been a bit more difficult than I''d expected. One side screams, ''But the toxins in the vaccines...!'' while the other side screams, ''But the diseases....!'' I''m just trying to find a safe, happy medium.
Dosage makes the toxin. Even water (plain happy non-contaminated water) is toxic if you drink too much. The dosage of the chemicals in the carriers for vaccines is extremely low, far below the amounts known to be toxic. Allergic reactions are still an issue, but if the medical staff is prepared to react if something happens than even that becomes easy to overcome.
Date: 8/20/2009 1:55:02 PM
Author: Rhapsody
Dosage makes the toxin. Even water (plain happy non-contaminated water) is toxic if you drink too much. The dosage of the chemicals in the carriers for vaccines is extremely low, far below the amounts known to be toxic.
Date: 8/20/2009 2:54:36 PM
Author: EBree
Date: 8/20/2009 1:55:02 PM
Author: Rhapsody
Dosage makes the toxin. Even water (plain happy non-contaminated water) is toxic if you drink too much. The dosage of the chemicals in the carriers for vaccines is extremely low, far below the amounts known to be toxic.
This is where the ''other side'' disagrees. For example, thimerisol: not present in most vaccines, but apparently still in some (flu and tetanus). The NVIC states that 50,000 ppb of mercury is the ''current ''preservative'' level mercury in multi-dose flu (94% of supply), meningococcal and tetanus (7 and older) vaccines.'' Only 200 ppb of mercury is the “level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous waste.” Source
It''s now a concern (my doc mentioned it before I did) but was being given to children at 50,000 ppbs in the DTaP and Hib vaccines as recently as the 90s.
Date: 8/20/2009 2:54:36 PM
Author: EBree
Date: 8/20/2009 1:55:02 PM
This is where the ''other side'' disagrees. For example, thimerisol: not present in most vaccines, but apparently still in some (flu and tetanus). The NVIC states that 50,000 ppb of mercury is the ''current ''preservative'' level mercury in multi-dose flu (94% of supply), meningococcal and tetanus (7 and older) vaccines.'' Only 200 ppb of mercury is the “level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous waste.” Source
It''s now a concern (my doc mentioned it before I did) but was being given to children at 50,000 ppbs in the DTaP and Hib vaccines as recently as the 90s.
The source you cite has an obvious interest in discrediting vaccines, so I would take their data with a grain of salt. I dont have enough time to read through everything and do the calculations, but theres a few quick points.
The mercury in thimerosal is metabolized into ethyl mercury which is chemically different that methyl mercury. The data indicates ethyl mercury is cleared from the body faster then methyl or inorganic mercury and is less toxic (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=16079072). The EPA numbers and the cell culture toxicity studies your source references all use methyl mercury, so we''re comparing apples to oranges.
The concentration of mercury in the vaccine (quoted as 50,000 ppb) is irrelevant. What matters is the final concentration in the infant after injection. If the shot was intravenous, assuming a half liter of blood that would be 50 bbp, and this will be less really since it will distribute to other tissues and not just the blood since the shot is IM.
The EPA safety limits refer to amounts that are safe to ingest daily, the amount that is safe for an acute single exposure would be different.
And the epidemiology shows no evidence that decreasing the concentration of thimerosal in the vaccines has altered health outcomes. This issue has been studied intensely and nothing has been found.