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Defect if dark due to shallow depth?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by pmd1117, Aug 11, 2001.

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  1. pmd1117
    Rough_Rock

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    by pmd1117 » Aug 11, 2001
    I've followed these postings and never seen anything on how some diamonds look darker then other diamonds of the same color since they are shallower (I've seen it in Diamonds 59 to 60.5). I am just about to purchase a 1.28 E VS2 Table: 58, Depth 60.5 (for 15% off Rap $8,200). (7.01-7.07 x 4.26mm) It's a beautiful cut (Hollaway score of 1.4) The problem is that it is a bit darker then other stones but just as colorful. My only concern is that it may look weird since I'm placing it in a platinum setting with two side Diamonds (F color which look very white-clear). I've spent a long time looking for a diamond and would like one but wondering if I should wait for another stone. Does the slight darkness devaluate the stone and will it look really strange next to the whiter side stones??? Please respond ASAP as I need to buy this stone tommorow.
     
    


    


  2. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

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    by pricescope » Aug 11, 2001
    Pmd1117, price looks very good.How far from your eyes do you hold the diamond when observing it? 10", 12", 15"?Try to vary the distance and see whether the diamond looks brighter when distance increases. Another trick Garry taught us is to check the diamond through the small holes in the white paper sheet. It will eliminate the shadow of your head.Getting Ideal-scope would help too [​IMG]
     
  3. pmd1117
    Rough_Rock

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    by pmd1117 » Aug 11, 2001
    It was only slightly darker and I was observing it from 1 foot (from 3 feet you couldn't tell). I'll see if an appraiser here in chicago has an ideal scope. Does the value of the diamond and beauty go down if it is slightly darker. Not black but almost yellower, deeper even though it is an E.
     
  4. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Aug 11, 2001
    The issue you are discussing is not quantified. It is unlikely you will find an appraiser who knows what we are discussing.
    We have only just begun the www.ideal-scope.com site 2 months ago. They will not know what it is, but you can still buy a prototype for just $10 +PP, and the site has instructions for its use. Do you have the stones proportions?garry
     
    


    


  5. pmd1117
    Rough_Rock

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    by pmd1117 » Aug 11, 2001
    Crown 33.5, Pavillion 41, no Culet (Actually I was wrong before on the sarin it's a 1.2 with excellent brilliance and fire and very good for spread and scintilation. Perhaps I'll go ahead and have it appraised today.
     
  6. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Aug 11, 2001
    Excellent observation.
    Stones with shallow combinations of crown and pavillion are effected more by your head shaodow.
    You can read all about this at http://www.gemology.ru/cut/english/faceting/ in the article written by Bruce Harding (alias Beryl).
    The dark background from your shadow makes it possible to see more fire.
    However when you look from the side at such a stone it will look fantastic.
    The important question is will you always be looking from as close as you probably are when you examine the stone now - and if the answer is no, then you will have no problem.
    Do you own an ideal-scope? If there is more than 30% black in the view I would be worried.
    garry
     
  7. lawmax
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by lawmax » Aug 11, 2001
    I think this is one of those cases where in certain direct lighting, like spots, a well-cut diamond will look a bit dark. Generally if you take it into more natural lighting, the stone will not look dark. Place sidestones next to it that are also well-cut. The ones that are not may look white, but they may look dull in comparison to the center stone.
     
  8. jamesd
    Shiny_Rock

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    by jamesd » Aug 11, 2001
    Remember that the very best cut diamonds (IMO) concentrate light more into the on parts of their scintillation and randomly distribute less light through the body of the diamond. The closer you get to perfect optical alignment the greater the effect can be expected to be.Can't tell if that is the case for this diamond but it is one possibility.Whether you like the trade off of darker body for brighter flashes is a question of personal preference, as usual. Worth noting that you won't see the darker body if you're looking at the diamond from normal ranges.
     
  9. pmd1117
    Rough_Rock

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    by pmd1117 » Aug 11, 2001
    I forgot to mention it has medium blue fluorescence and gd sym, vg polish. Is it a good buy?
     
  10. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Aug 11, 2001
    Are you right with those numbers?
    This is not a shallow stone. It is almost an exact equivalent of Tolkowsky when the pavilion to crown angle relationships are factored together.
     
    


    


  11. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Oct 11, 2001
    1. The distance between your head and the stone is probably very close?
    2. You will look at your head in upto 1/2 the facets in a stone with say a 40 degree pavilion and a 32 degree crown angle. Assuming your head is not as bright as the surroundings then a shallow stone that directs ray paths from your eyes back to your head will look dark. this is partially explained in the link to 'Beryl' Hardings G&G article.
    3. We will soon have a very thorough article discussing these issues - up on www.diamond-cut.com.au and linked from here too. L is working on it now.
     
  12. dgal
    Rough_Rock

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    by dgal » Oct 11, 2001
    Reviving this topic, hoping for a response.
    I've been really curious about this because I have a stone that performs just as described, and it has a shallow combination of crown and pavillion. It mostly performs very well, but under certain lights, it turns dark. Also, in direct sunlight, it also looks dark when looked at directly top down, but it looks great from the side. Is the shallowness also responsible for its darkness in direct sunlight? Is this also to be expected from this combination, or is it due to some other factor?
     
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