decision decision please help!!!

[flexicitus]

Insights like yours, Pyramid, keep me up all night thinking and rethinking about this ring!! Thanks for your wonderful analyses and kind ways of communicating your excellent points - especially the one about how Tiffany makes profit with smaller stones. I have seen 1+ ct from Tiffany and they are beautiful. Yes the bigger the better at Tiffany, I think.

All ears!

Flex

 

[flexicitus]

Pyramid, you are right again about the celebrities. I thought about Harry Winston but gave up as soon as I found out that their starting size is 1 ct.

Fl

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 9/24/2006 7:23:27 AM
Author: flexicitus
Great advice everybody!! Some of what you said did warm my heart so much that I felt tears in my eyes!! snif snif ... I think I am beginning to understand why Tiffany & Co could be appealing as it could be a default solution to many problems such as the balance of size, cut and the value of feeling sentiment (or subjective appreciation) because of a historic connection that a celebrated tradition/designer can offer. To be sure, no one in his sane mind, when looking to make one of life's most important statements, would like to get this wrong. As a guy I do love such things as a very fine designer's fountain pen, even though my humble parker fountain works fine. 'Value' is a wrong word for an engagement ring, unless one plans to sell it one day. Rather, 'the depth of a personal appreciation' would be how I look at the innocent joy of owning anything sentimental and beautiful whether it be expensive reasonably or unreasonably. That said, the value of a diamond on such a landmark piece as an engagement ring would not be as objective as doing calculas but any lasting 'personal appreciation' of it would never be a result of a careful formula of objective data or even that of a designer's name. I think afterall it's the story that counts, isn't it? If the story goes with a Tiffany it goes with a Tiffany. If it goes with a G or D it goes with such. Every one here has a great story to tell, I am 100% sure. And thanks for being here to help me tell mine!!

I wonder what kind of size of a round diamond (on a platinum Tiffany setting) one could get with a budget capped at around 5700 USD or 3000 GBP, for a F-G of a clarity of VVS2-VS2. In the UK my purchase would be tax-free because I am not British. So that's some help, isn't it? Any advice on how to make a good purchase at Tiffany's without having one's diamond calculator or laptop near for such tests as a HCA?

Many thanks for your help and ideas for this important decision!!!!

Flex

also the tiffany setting in platinum is drop dead gorgeous. no tax. hmmm. easy to arrange too.
and get the matching wedding bands while there. badda bing!

do you know her ring size?

 

[flexicitus]

Size 6.

Cheers,

Fl

 

[phoenixgirl]

I wonder what kind of size of a round diamond (on a platinum Tiffany setting) one could get with a budget capped at around 5700 USD or 3000 GBP, for a F-G of a clarity of VVS2-VS2. In the UK my purchase would be tax-free because I am not British. So that''s some help, isn''t it? Any advice on how to make a good purchase at Tiffany''s without having one''s diamond calculator or laptop near for such tests as a HCA?

OK, I''ll bite.

I designed this ring using Blue Nile UK.

0.94 G VS2 GIA excellent cut with plat setting for $5872 scores 0.9 on the HCA

 

[pyramid]

Flexciitus You see around here Friday is the normal Tiffany bashing day or it used to be.

I have read that Tiffany's older rings found at auctions with unusual and exact craftmanship are seen as works of art and worth the prices paid, as would their lamps be which is copied everywhere now. The designs they have are no doubt good, their Tiffany solitaire ring has been copied but their's is still the original and the best. Some on the forums buy the Tiffany silver for the designs but others say it is overpriced too.

There have been others who have still bought the Tiffany ring because it was what their prospective fiancee wanted and she is the one who has to wear it and be happy with it. I can see the value where some women get together and they all appreciate Tiffany as they do other fashion designer names. On the logical side though as these women get older and more educated in the profits these companies make they maybe would have rather had a larger generic diamond or the same sized diamond but not having spent all that money on it.
Everyone has different values, these women in their 20s getting the Tiffany rings would say that I in my 40s am a mean penny pincher with no style probably.

Another thing that springs to mind though is that mail order company you may have heard of Franklin Mint they sell these limited edition china figures but at the end of the day they are only worth what they were bought for because they are limited to like 5000 pieces. I think it is the throw away society too, people don't want to buy expensive ornaments when they can have many different looks for less. A china shop in the city I live in has closed after about 200 years and in the newspaper they have mentioned that the TV programme on redecorating your house for next to nothing has affected them. It said no one wants to sit down now with a large dinner service anymore.

 

[flexicitus]

Yea I am a Bile Nile fan too and it's my top choice for the stone and the setting would come from somewhere else, as many would know where I would get it from. But that great setting alone costs $1250. So the budget for the stone has to adjust accordingly.

Many thanks for your advice!!

Fl

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 9/24/2006 8:44:20 AM
Author: phoenixgirl

I wonder what kind of size of a round diamond (on a platinum Tiffany setting) one could get with a budget capped at around 5700 USD or 3000 GBP, for a F-G of a clarity of VVS2-VS2. In the UK my purchase would be tax-free because I am not British. So that''s some help, isn''t it? Any advice on how to make a good purchase at Tiffany''s without having one''s diamond calculator or laptop near for such tests as a HCA?

OK, I''ll bite.

I designed this ring using Blue Nile UK.

0.94 G VS2 GIA excellent cut with plat setting for $5872 scores 0.9 on the HCA

he doesn''t want to go over third of a carat because he is in canada. can you do your magic on 0.39>

 

[pyramid]

Ofcourse everything can be turned upside down when logically we spend thousands on diamonds but other people think we are wasting our money and adding to the profits of Debeers. However I love diamonds

Regarding Felixicitus being in Canada what happens if you want a big diamond and can afford it and your fiancee wants it too but everyone else in Canada is wearing smaller diamonds? That is what I have often wondered for the UK. The average diamond size here is the same as Canada except in a large City like London maybe.

 

[pyramid]

Felixicitus A 1+carat ring at Tiffany would be beautiful but they make their profits on these stones too, this is not a rare sized diamond for them. A 10 carat D IF diamond may be.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The smaller the stone, the more appealing a Tiffany ring would be! You''re not paying as much mark up as you would be on a larger diamond! So by all means get a .35-.40 at Tiffany''s! Surely you can get one with a budget of $5000 US! And I think aiming for high color and clarity is wonderful, but I''d consider as low as the F VVS range to be outstanding. And yes, I think you can safely buy a diamond at Tiffany''s without analyzing the numbers to death. But please come back and post some pictures for us...I love that Tiffany solitaire!!!

 

[flexicitus]

I am willing to consider a larger size but social pressure or fear of what others might think of the ring is not the reason behind. I still think 1ct might be too large, even though I have found some that I could afford. Still, size isn''t the driving matter for me.

Fl

 

[strmrdr]

Most of the best cut under .5ct D/IF stones go to Japan but a vendor with a great relationship with the cutters can pull them back here.
I bought my diamond from www.goodoldgold.com and he could do so as well as others.
Then for one of the best settings anywhere talk to Mark Morrell
http://www.mwmjewelry.com/

Much better than any Tiffany ring in my opinion.

 

[FacetFire]

Just thought I'd throw this out there because I LOVE the original tiffany ring, but hate the inflated prices. Here is a .7 G VVS2 authentic Tiffany ring from Signed Pieces for $3800. A lot of people here have purchased from them and are VERY pleased.

Here's the link: http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=4065

And a pic...

Oh, and it just happens to be a size 6 too.

 

[flexicitus]

I can't wait to hear from the Tiffany salesperson I have been in touch with via email in the past 2 weeks. I also have talked to my girlfriend whose preference is as what I would expect from her: simplicity, moderation, and quality. She for some reasons said that since none of her friends wear a Tiffany nor should she. (We are both grad students.) She thought a ring like that is what people would usually reserve for security boxes in the bank. But on a scale of importance 1 - 5 for 'tradition and historical connection' - 5 being the least important, she gave me 5 - althought I must add that her response took a rather long time and was much too hesitant for me to believe her. And the score is too much too extreme, isn't it?

Meanwhile I have looked at Birk's ring boxes and perhaps if I ever decided to go for a goodoldgold (who has an EXCELLENT selection by the way!) or bluenile diamond with a supercert Tiffany setting I would probably present it with a vintage (1900s-20s) Birk's legendary silver ring dom-box. The size of the diamond would likely be around .40-0.50 or 0.60-70 at the most. My budget for this would be capped at around $3000- 4000:

0.36 E/IF ideal (inscripted H&A), 4.59x4.60x2.80, gridle: t-m, fluo: none, T55% D60.9% 34 40.8: HCA 0.6 ex/ex/ex/vg, eps 0.981, GIA ex/ex/ex. $1155. This one seems to have the best proportion among all. I might go with another stone but this one has the model figure, doesn't it?

As for the prospect of a Tiffany ring, I am a bit concerned and confused about her ambivalence. But I'll see what I can do when I hear back from Tiffany. By the way the setting IS beautiful even with a 0.19 ct diamond - those I have seen in pictures do look much bigger than 0.19 because of the excellence of the setting! I'll likely go for a 0.40. I'll keep you posted!!

NOW this is for the venerable Mr Pyramid: http://cgi.ebay.com/1940s-TIFFANY-CO-PLATINUM-DIAMOND-SOLITAIRE-RING_W0QQitemZ160031745107QQihZ006QQcategoryZ52571QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Many thanks for all your help and advice!!


Fl

 

[aljdewey]

.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Canada, just like the U.S, or anywhere else, has its areas where larger stones are normal or smaller is normal, but a general statement that small stones are the norm in Canada is anywhere near accurate.

I think Flex lives in the U.K but is from Canada originally?

Flex, if high clarity is what you want, then thats what you should look for. But perhaps instead of looking at high brand stores, look at the online vendors that are on PS to find you a stone at a fair price. My brother recently went to Birks in Mississauga as he was with his girlfriend & wanted to see more or less what she liked. So he asks to see a ring, it was 1/2 ct, "well cut but not ideal", sidestones were "tiny" at 13pts total weight & in 18K white gold for a bargain price of $11,000 plus of course our 14% tax on top of that. He didnt know clarity but colour was F. My brother started laughing. He said he couldnt help himself because he couldnt believe the outrageous price. The saleslady said that "they could a bit better but not a lot because this stone is very high quality". My brother thanked her for her time & told her it would be unfair for him to take her business card because Birk''s prices were just too steep for his budget. His girlfriend doesnt care to know anything about the stone or the size, she just wants to be engaged. Lucky for her I have a lot of influence on him. LOL She wont end up with garbage & he wont end up paying an arm & a leg.

Good luck & continue to post. I am sure that the vendors here would be glad to look for a stone for you. They probably havent had many requests for high clarity stones in a long time. Especially with us here on PS.

Judy

 

[hlmr]

Date: 9/24/2006 12:43:14 PM
Author: ccuheartnurse
Canada, just like the U.S, or anywhere else, has its areas where larger stones are normal or smaller is normal, but a general statement that small stones are the norm in Canada is anywhere near accurate.

LOL!! We like em big up here too!!

 

[flexicitus]

A post about Birks warms my heart, perhaps because I am so far away from home. So thanks, Judy!! Yea Birks was the first store I looked at and it''s the one I have a lot of respect, especially for their Blue collection and their ring boxes. BUT that price for a 0.5 ct really puts Tiffany to shame. And Birks Blue setting really isn''t that special compared to Tiffany''s custom fit-setting for the diamond. My girlfriend likely has the same wave length as your brother''s fiancee, doesn''t she? I know she does. I am so ''blessed''!

Fl

 

[isaku5]

Date: 9/23/2006 10:49:36 PM
Author: ladykemma
ohhhh, you''re in canada. third of a carat then! anything larger is considered garish.

still nudging you towards looking at whiteflash fluorescent stone...nudge nudge.

WHAT????!!!! Canadians wear big diamonds too!!! Go to either Toronto or Montreal and you''ll see fabulous large diamonds.

We don''t just go huntin'', fishin'' and paddle canoes up here. Lots of us are into serious bling.

That clarified, I would advise flex to do some comparison shopping. I wanted a "mind clean" princess for my upgrade after 40+ years with lovely rb .64 F VVS2 and " updated" to a 1.71 E VVS2 which I bought from Blue Nile before discovering PS. Now after learning so much more, I realize that I would have been very satisfied with a G VS1 for much less money.

Flex, unless it''s your fiancee-to-be''s long time wish to have a ring from Birks, don''t buy there as they have heavy markups and you''re paying for the name. You will do much better following PS''ers advice and finding an extra- special diamond from the jewellers here.

As a fellow Canadian, I just had to respond to ladykemma''s comment.

 

[flexicitus]

Thanks for your idea, Isabel. I am done with Birks as far as the engagement ring is concerned. There is no way I am spending so much money on a setting unappealing to her. As for the comment about Canadian and size, I would need to come clean by saying that no size is NORMATIVE in Canada, which is my point well put by Judy and generally understood here.

I have done my search and with various variations come three choices for the diamond: 0.38/40, 0.50, 0.60. Visually speaking how different do they look on the classic tiffany setting of size 6? Please advise. ps. I am thinking of getting a vintage Birks ring box for the purpose of presentation and collection.


Fl

 

[Oleander]

Date: 9/24/2006 12:16:51 PM
Author: flexicitus
I can''t wait to hear from the Tiffany salesperson I have been in touch with via email in the past 2 weeks. I also have talked to my girlfriend whose preference is as what I would expect from her: simplicity, moderation, and quality. She for some reasons said that since none of her friends wear a Tiffany nor should she. (We are both grad students.) She thought a ring like that is what people would usually reserve for security boxes in the bank...

You mention a tiffany-style ring is what you may buy from SuperbCert. If your girlfriend doesn''t want to wear a real Tiffany, then she won''t want to wear a tiffany-style ring either, in all likelihood. Once on the finger, people don''t know a ring is actual Tiffany unless you tell them, but on the flipside SuperbCert''s copy is very good, and looks almost exactly like the original, so to me it''s the same dilemma of the safe desposit box and embarrassment around the friends. I''d make sure whether she likes that style setting/ring at all.

The way I see it, shopping for a stone? Tiffany might not be the way to go. Shopping for a ring? Well, then one would buy at Tiffany, if the _ring_ itself is the object of desire. When we were getting engaged, I could not find ANY rings that were set like Tiffany''s, and that''s the ring I liked the best. Now there are options that are much better, of course. But still, if you like the craftmanship and feel of the Tiffany ring, then that''s the one to go with. Not because it''s Tiffany or better than any other, but because you like it the best. I personally think their metalwork is great, and the settings of the stones are done very well, down to the last detail.

Looking forward to seeing what you choose! I love seeing new rings.

 

[pyramid]

Flexicitus I saw your link that was a lovely classic ring, I have seen other vintage Tiffany rings posted on this board over the years will have to do another search.

Here is one I found:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/feedback-please-on-euopean-brilliant-in-vintage-tiffany-setting.18468/=


Oh, by the way, I am Mrs Pyramid

 

[angeline]

Flex,

I think you are getting excellent advice from the experts here.

I just wanted to add that I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts - your writing style is so eloquent and sincere without being pompous. Thanks!

a

 

[pyramid]

angeline

I think you meant ''experts'' as opposed to experts. There have been no jewellery experts replying here, meaning people who are graduate gemmologists, appraisers etc. professional jewellery people.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 9/24/2006 2:11:56 PM
Author: isaku5

Date: 9/23/2006 10:49:36 PM
Author: ladykemma
ohhhh, you're in canada. third of a carat then! anything larger is considered garish.

still nudging you towards looking at whiteflash fluorescent stone...nudge nudge.

WHAT????!!!! Canadians wear big diamonds too!!! Go to either Toronto or Montreal and you'll see fabulous large diamonds.

We don't just go huntin', fishin' and paddle canoes up here. Lots of us are into serious bling.

That clarified, I would advise flex to do some comparison shopping. I wanted a 'mind clean' princess for my upgrade after 40+ years with lovely rb .64 F VVS2 and ' updated' to a 1.71 E VVS2 which I bought from Blue Nile before discovering PS. Now after learning so much more, I realize that I would have been very satisfied with a G VS1 for much less money.

Flex, unless it's your fiancee-to-be's long time wish to have a ring from Birks, don't buy there as they have heavy markups and you're paying for the name. You will do much better following PS'ers advice and finding an extra- special diamond from the jewellers here.

As a fellow Canadian, I just had to respond to ladykemma's comment.

chuckle! i thought since most of the canadians on here stressed smaller diamonds that this was the norm. silly me!

when i lived in london it was the norm too.

 

[cara]

Sorry the scientist in me just had to reply to this IF madness. Make sure you and all other new-to-Pricescope IF-lovers that might be reading this appreciate that something graded IF is not actually flawless - just no flaws visible at 10x magnification. Tons of tiny flaws visible at higher mag are probable. So if your desire for IF is related to some romantic attachment to a "perfect" crystal, please realize that IFs are still imperfect. However, if you are just trying to minimize those clarity imperfections to the far end of the grading spectrum, great clarity is your preference, then go to it, pay the premium, and appreciate your IF stone with its super-tiny flaws.

I don't think that "overkill" is an unwarrented word - as for most people IF would be overkill, but clearly there are some clarity-whore-types (?trying for size-whore equivalent here?) out there that understand what the grading is and is not and appreciate it. At the end of the day, whatever floats your boat is fine (and hopefully the girl's boat too)! One of the services of pricescope seems to be not just taking newbies word for exactly what they want but interrogating them a little to see *why* they have those preferences. Once everyone is convinced that some reasonable information backs up the preference, it seems pricescopers are happy to make recommendations inside whatever specs the person wants...

 

[angeline]

Mrs Pyramid,

I did indeed mean 'experts' as opposed to experts. You gotta be so careful!

a

 

[pyramid]

From reading the UK Blue Nile site, they do not set the diamond in the ring for you, it appears they send the diamond loose with the setting. Just thought I would post this incase it has been overlooked. Good for independent appraisal but then you have to find someone to set the stone, arrange insurance or check they have insurance to cover it. I believe it is hard to arrange insurance for a loose stone too.

 

[flexicitus]

You, your advice and compliments have been great companions to me in this sleepless journay. Thanks from my heart. As for the setting, she prefers it for its eloquent simplicity and class - whether it's a Tiffany or not. So it is 60% about the setting and craftmanship, as she isn't very knowledable about diamonds. That said, at this very writing the very patient Tiffany salesperson just wrote me back with a new list + some earlier selections. Your advice will be much appreciated:

These on the Tiffany platinum setting are the ones that I am interested in (and no tax):


0.44/VVS1/G $5000
0.40/VVS1/F $5233
0.41/VVS1/F $5328
0.45/VVS1/F $6708
0.47/VS1/F $6000
0.50/VS2/F $6400
0.42/VVS2/G $4660
0.49/VS1/E $6946

A bluenile F VS1 0.5ct 55%/61.5% (too deep?) signature H&A is $2000 and the setting with supercert is $1250 + the complicated shipping (to UK or Canada), insurances and handling, I think around, $300 + risks + 2% VISA charge for CAD or UK Visa. The approximate total is therefore around: $3600 USD. (Again, this refers to MY specific purchase circumstances, not the services of those companies in general. ) A further comparison would be interesting:

Suppose the Tiffany craftmanship, setting and indeed the entire 'package' are valued at around $2500, a 0.47 or 0.50 F VS Tiffany diamond would cost around $3500 - 3900. The difference between my alternative package and a Tiffany decreases with a 0.40/F/VVS1 class diamond: $2733, with a drop in carat weight and an approximate 0.3 mm in diameter which is around 1 mm2 in area. I also could VIEW the diamond at Tiffany in person and make the purchase without the 2% fee or having to wait for shipping and put up with the risks. I value that option, lifetime service and safety at around $400. Then a 0.47 or 0.50 ct would cost around $3100 - 3500. The premium for a Tiffany ring therefore is estimated at around $1100 - 1400 - for THIS engagement ring, not Tiffany rings in general compared with other alternatives. In conclusion the price difference is around $1100-1400.

Note that a non-Tiffany handcraft custom-made platinum Tiffany setting costs $1250-1700+ and the top end starts with a 0.75 ct setting. That is, the cost for top-end craftmanship for diamond-individualised setting should be around $1700 to 2000.


The primary task of an engagement ring to me is to convey a message of passion, affection, worth and belonging. I know she and I would pay more to get our hearts' desires, even though we aren't generally big spenders. A .50 ct seems to be of a good size and asthestics, doesn't it?

So my first question is whether 0.50 is a good-looking and moderate weight on a size 6 and whether it would look much the same with a 0.30 or 0.40. My second question is whether my estimation of the Tiffany premium is fair and close. Any thoughts?

Fl