DeBeers diamonds - Victor Project - Canada

[Cachette]

I have a question for those of you who know the diamond market.

I live in Northern Ontario not very far from the new DeBeers diamond mine in Attawapiskat, Ontario, Canada.
Because of my love of diamonds, I have been following this project closely but I`m seeking more information.

My intent when I first heard of this mine was to one day purchase a diamond from there because I thought it would be really cool to own a "home grown" diamond. As an employment consultant who refers people to the DeBeers site for employment, I`ve come into contact with many contractors and employees of DeBeers and I`m hearing all kinds of anecdotes about the diamonds that are being extracted from this mine site.

I heard over the Holidays from a particular employee that the diamonds that they are extracting from the Victor site are of superior clarity and will be selling at about 25,000$ a carat. This person said that he heard (I know, alot of hearsay so not very reliable) that they were shown a handful of rough diamonds from another mine and they looked like gray peppered stones and then compared them to DeBeers Victor Project rough diamonds and they looked like nice rocks of clear salt.

I`m wondering first of all if anybody has heard anything about this (price per carat on the DeBeers Victor diamonds); I`m now concerned that these diamonds may be way out of my reach if they really are that expensive.

Secondly, how long does it take for a cut diamond to reach the market for sale from the point when the diamond is extracted from the mine?

Thanks.

Cachette

 

[Ninama]

A quick google search brought up this:


"The Attawapiskat De Beers diamonds are the highest quality, purity and clarity he (Frank C. Smeenk, president and CEO of KWG) has ever seen.

''They are going to change the grading of diamonds. They are so bright they just jump off the table.''"


http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/industry/mining/06-06-kwg.asp

 

[Cachette]

Thank you Ninama!

I`ve been trying to research this topic and I`m not getting the information I`m looking for so I appreciate you looking into it for me.

If in fact the prices of these diamonds are to be that high, how will this affect the diamond market? Will it rise or lower current diamond prices? Will it do nothing because there just won`t be enough of the new mined diamonds to make a difference? I`m assuming that at that price DeBeers will be marketing these new diamond to the elite. Now I`m curious to find out who will carry them? Guess I`ll wait to see it advertised somewhere; my contacts are only interested in the nuts and bolts of the operation and not the end product.

Thanks again.

Cachette

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/2/2008 11:35:51 AM
Author:Cachette
I have a question for those of you who know the diamond market.

I live in Northern Ontario not very far from the new DeBeers diamond mine in Attawapiskat, Ontario, Canada.
Because of my love of diamonds, I have been following this project closely but I`m seeking more information.

My intent when I first heard of this mine was to one day purchase a diamond from there because I thought it would be really cool to own a ''home grown'' diamond. As an employment consultant who refers people to the DeBeers site for employment, I`ve come into contact with many contractors and employees of DeBeers and I`m hearing all kinds of anecdotes about the diamonds that are being extracted from this mine site.

I heard over the Holidays from a particular employee that the diamonds that they are extracting from the Victor site are of superior clarity and will be selling at about 25,000$ a carat. This person said that he heard (I know, alot of hearsay so not very reliable) that they were shown a handful of rough diamonds from another mine and they looked like gray peppered stones and then compared them to DeBeers Victor Project rough diamonds and they looked like nice rocks of clear salt.

I`m wondering first of all if anybody has heard anything about this (price per carat on the DeBeers Victor diamonds); I`m now concerned that these diamonds may be way out of my reach if they really are that expensive.

Secondly, how long does it take for a cut diamond to reach the market for sale from the point when the diamond is extracted from the mine?


Thanks.

Cachette

Depending on the size, weight, quality and shape...
A lot high quality rough Diamonds (from various mine around the world) reach these numbers and more..., especially these last couple of years.

 

[denverappraiser]

So far DeBeers has never marketed stones based on the mine of origin but I suppose they could always start. There are such things as $25k/ct diamonds but press release like to use big sounding numbers and will use some very strange valuation methodologies to come up with them. Asking for $25k/ct. isn’t the same as getting it after all but asking or even theoretically asking may be sufficient for the purposes of the newspaper. My guess is that this press release is more about selling stock in mining and exploration companies than it is about selling diamonds. There's more than one way to make a buck in the diamond business.

The vast majority of mine employees are never in a position to inspect a 'handful' of diamonds from their competitors so I'm not sure I put much stake in the reliability of that particular rumor.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/3/2008 3:46:15 PM
Author: denverappraiser
So far DeBeers has never marketed stones based on the mine of origin but I suppose they could always start. There are such things as $25k/ct diamonds but press release like to use big sounding numbers and will use some very strange valuation methodologies to come up with them. Asking for $25k/ct. isn’t the same as getting it after all but asking or even theoretically asking may be sufficient for the purposes of the newspaper. My guess is that this press release is more about selling stock in mining and exploration companies than it is about selling diamonds. There''s more than one way to make a buck in the diamond business.

The vast majority of mine employees are never in a position to inspect a ''handful'' of diamonds from their competitors so I''m not sure I put much stake in the reliability of that particular rumor.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Especially after the following statement:

"The Attawapiskat De Beers diamonds are the highest quality, purity and clarity he (Frank C. Smeenk, president and CEO of KWG) has ever seen.
''They are going to change the grading of diamonds. They are so bright they just jump off the table.''"


Watch-out GIA and Co..., there goes 70 some years of work!!!

 

[Jonathan the Jeweler]

It is only a natural progression that new Diamonds will be sold as product of a particular mine. Other Canadian Diamonds are already sold this way. In the future it is my prediction that the source of a diamond will be as important as its color, cut, and clarity. It is not much of a stretch to imagine a market where diamonds are valued with their source taken into account. Canadian diamonds sell at a small premium in my store, and it puts a consumers heart at ease to know for sure that their Diamond didn''t cause suffering to their fellow man. Such certification will add tremendous value to any diamond, allowing people to indulge without guilt. However business will probably continue as usual, with most diamonds being sold without information on their source. I think the high-end market will start to embrace diamonds with a verifiable and certified origin. Most consumers have heard enough about "blood diamonds" to know they don''t want them. It just a matter of getting them to pay a little more to set their heart at ease.

 

[denverappraiser]

So far DeBeers hasn’t participated in any of the Canadian origin programs like Canadamark or the GNWT and their own branded ‘forevermark’ seems to only identify a stone as having been authorized by them, wherever in the world it came from them. We’ll see if the evolution of diamond marketing is towards promoting a particular mine as a value characteristic and, in many cases, it’s certainly possible to do but it doesn’t seem to be advancing all that quickly and I would be very surprised to see a DeBeers venture on the leading edge of this. They’re pretty vested in the idea that it doesn’t matter where it came from as long as it came from them.

Here’s a few conversations about this general topic.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-you-tell-which-mine-your-diamond-came-from-on-its-papers.74688/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rand-diamonds.53814/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/interesting-speech-at-antwerps-diamond-conference-2007.70816/

Personally, I would like to see this trend move beyond Canada and, in particular, into Africa. Much of the concern about ‘blood diamonds’ is fear of doing harm to the people of Africa and this is certainly laudable but to say that you are benefiting the peoples of Africa by buying Canadian products isn’t thinking through the economic process. An African mine promoting their provenance directly to the end consumer seems like something the marketplace is ready for but I haven’t seen it done yet.

Here’s a couple of the current systems for documenting Canadian origin.
http://www.canadamark.com/
http://www.canadianarcticdiamond.com/

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/3/2008 8:00:07 PM
Author: Jonathan the Jeweler
It is only a natural progression that new Diamonds will be sold as product of a particular mine. Other Canadian Diamonds are already sold this way. In the future it is my prediction that the source of a diamond will be as important as its color, cut, and clarity. It is not much of a stretch to imagine a market where diamonds are valued with their source taken into account. Canadian diamonds sell at a small premium in my store, and it puts a consumers heart at ease to know for sure that their Diamond didn''t cause suffering to their fellow man. Such certification will add tremendous value to any diamond, allowing people to indulge without guilt. However business will probably continue as usual, with most diamonds being sold without information on their source. I think the high-end market will start to embrace diamonds with a verifiable and certified origin. Most consumers have heard enough about ''blood diamonds'' to know they don''t want them. It just a matter of getting them to pay a little more to set their heart at ease.

Is it true???

I heard the lives of Aboriginal peoples suffer "just" a bit.

But maybe I heard wrong and in the Canadas..., all is peachy pink

.

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/2/2008 11:35:51 AM
Author:Cachette
I have a question for those of you who know the diamond market.

I live in Northern Ontario not very far from the new DeBeers diamond mine in Attawapiskat, Ontario, Canada.
Because of my love of diamonds, I have been following this project closely but I`m seeking more information.

My intent when I first heard of this mine was to one day purchase a diamond from there because I thought it would be really cool to own a ''home grown'' diamond. As an employment consultant who refers people to the DeBeers site for employment, I`ve come into contact with many contractors and employees of DeBeers and I`m hearing all kinds of anecdotes about the diamonds that are being extracted from this mine site.

I heard over the Holidays from a particular employee that the diamonds that they are extracting from the Victor site are of superior clarity and will be selling at about 25,000$ a carat. This person said that he heard (I know, alot of hearsay so not very reliable) that they were shown a handful of rough diamonds from another mine and they looked like gray peppered stones and then compared them to DeBeers Victor Project rough diamonds and they looked like nice rocks of clear salt.

I`m wondering first of all if anybody has heard anything about this (price per carat on the DeBeers Victor diamonds); I`m now concerned that these diamonds may be way out of my reach if they really are that expensive.

Secondly, how long does it take for a cut diamond to reach the market for sale from the point when the diamond is extracted from the mine?

Thanks.

Cachette

Did you know "Cachette" means a "obligated/sealed offer" in Diamond professional slang???

When a dealer offers on a Diamond/lot..., he seals the offer (and the Diamond/s) in a "Cachette", (usually a sealed envelope marked with the offer info.)

If the owner of the lot decides to sell at the offered quote..., the buyer is obligated on his offer..., or else

 

[Cachette]

For me, it`s a question of wanting to buy something from my own back yard and supporting my local economy when I can. I don`t object to buying diamonds from elsewhere but I do have a personal preference.

I already own a Canadian Polar Bear Diamond and would like to add to my meager collection.

I don`t know if De Beers will market this mine in particular and try to tap into the "Canadiana" hype but seeing as this is the second De Beers mine in Canada and I have seen no advertising for the other (Snap Lake- but they are still in the early production stages), I suspect they may keep their "global - one De Beers fits all" image. Doing anything else would be hypocritical and hurt their investments in other countries. They will keep with tradition and keep marketing the De Beers diamond as they always have. Problem with that is I probably won`t know where to find a diamond from that particular mine site once they are cut. Oh well - mabye I can take a trip up there and "find" myself a nice sized rough diamond.

Date: 1/3/2008 8:00:07 PM
Author: Jonathan the Jeweler
It is only a natural progression that new Diamonds will be sold as product of a particular mine. Other Canadian Diamonds are already sold this way. In the future it is my prediction that the source of a diamond will be as important as its color, cut, and clarity. It is not much of a stretch to imagine a market where diamonds are valued with their source taken into account. Canadian diamonds sell at a small premium in my store, and it puts a consumers heart at ease to know for sure that their Diamond didn''t cause suffering to their fellow man. Such certification will add tremendous value to any diamond, allowing people to indulge without guilt. However business will probably continue as usual, with most diamonds being sold without information on their source. I think the high-end market will start to embrace diamonds with a verifiable and certified origin. Most consumers have heard enough about ''blood diamonds'' to know they don''t want them. It just a matter of getting them to pay a little more to set their heart at ease.

Is it true???

I heard the lives of Aboriginal peoples suffer "just" a bit.

But maybe I heard wrong and in the Canadas..., all is peachy pink.

Antique Diamond-Gem.

Not peachy pink but from my perspective, it`s given Aboriginal people opportunities like they have never seen before. Education, apprenticeships in various trades, long term employment with good pay and great pride in their sacred land. I have not seen or heard of any First Nation individuals suffering because of the De Beers Canada projects. Any suffering is a result of years of discriminatory practices towards the First Nations people and the social economical problems that this entails and not De Beers fault in the least. I haven`t really researched other De Beers mines and their protocols in other countries but in Canada, because of our human rights commission, employees of De Beers will be treated fairly (not perfectly - nothing is perfect

) thus insuring a "mind clean" product for those who hold that value when it comes to purchasing a diamond.

Cachette

 

[Cachette]

Thanks for that information Diagem.

I had read somewhere when I found my screen name that instead of an envolope, it was a little black (velvet) bag. Also, I am French Canadian so I found the term fitting.

Furthermore, I like to picture that this little black bag, this little "Cachette", is full of sparkly diamonds filled just for me.

Cachette

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/4/2008 10:56:31 AM
Author: Cachette
For me, it`s a question of wanting to buy something from my own back yard and supporting my local economy when I can.

This is the finest reason I can think of for why to bias your purchases towards Canadian goods. Supporting your neighbors business is supporting your neighborhood.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver