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'Debate' with Jeweler

I can't believe that jeweller bothered to actually take time to write such a long and condescending letter. If you want to convince someone to buy your product as it is better, writing a rude letter doesnt seem the best way to go about it.

It could well be that they are offering the some incredibly high quality diamonds and worksmanship, but they are kind of light on details to back up their claims and a bit heavy on the condescension. Every single jeweller I've been to always goes on at length about why their stuff is so much higher quality etc etc, and they just expect you to take them at their word. But really, if they are truly offering something amazing, they should be offering to show you evidence to back up their claims and not just resort to disparaging remarks against shopping websites like Pricescope :P.
 
srke said:
I can't believe that jeweller bothered to actually take time to write such a long and condescending letter. If you want to convince someone to buy your product as it is better, writing a rude letter doesnt seem the best way to go about it.

It could well be that they are offering the some incredibly high quality diamonds and worksmanship, but they are kind of light on details to back up their claims and a bit heavy on the condescension. Every single jeweller I've been to always goes on at length about why their stuff is so much higher quality etc etc, and they just expect you to take them at their word. But really, if they are truly offering something amazing, they should be offering to show you evidence to back up their claims and not just resort to disparaging remarks against shopping websites like Pricescope :razz:.
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This!!

I always think that good products sell themselves - no need for High Pressure Sales tactics or disparaging competitors, both of which make me think that they are trying to make up for something that's lacking.
 
I too would point out that he’s fundamentally correct on a lot of his points, and I even feel his pain. It’s hard to sell on price when there are so many variables that customers don’t understand. I can’t help but also notice that he seems to have a lot of time on his hands. That may be related to his marketing approach.
 
I don't see what he wrote as "scare tactics". He was basically saying that the cost is higher because he uses stones that are perfectly matched within .1 mm, same diamonds Harry Winston uses, and that the setting is completely hand made to be completely customized to each stone. I guess what we don't know, is the level of quality that high? Is this store truly one of a handful across the globe who could make this ring? If it is same quality as HW but also the same cost as a HW ring, I'd rather purchase the Harry Winston ring! and 2) did you ask for that that level of exact matching and specify it needs to be a hand-made ring, or did the jeweler give you a cost estimate based on the most expensive kind of ring he could make and is now justifying the cost difference?
 
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i think that is a good question. OP, what did you actually ask for as far as stone quality, matched stones, hand forging vs CAD, etc. Maybe I missed your parameters but that would certainly help with what you were asking for vs. what he, or others were selling.
 
Interesting. Although I didn't care for the tone of his reply to you, like some of the others have said, I do get the point he's trying to make...

In general, having this made in Australia will come at a bit of a premium anyway... but as someone said, I suppose make sure you're comparing apples to apples when comparing the quotes. The difference between a hand forged setting with exactly matched stones is understandably going to cost significantly more... (coming from someone who has debated the hand forged vs cast setting several times!) Whether they are actually as good as they say and whether you WANT something that is hand forged or would be happy with a beautiful ring made by other methods is the thing.
 
I am also not defending the jeweller at all, his tone was rude and condescending and that is in no way what service should be like and it is most definitely not a way to win over a new potential customer.

That said yes he was essentially right, that is high quality, precision handwork commands premiums. Not to say he actually has either. We also know that diamonds of the same color and clarity grades are very far from equal. Essentially he was using some truth to rudely defend his view. In my opinion not getting on the defensive like this would have helped his case much more. Patient,enthusiastic and cordial education of customers would have helped him much more. Nevertheless, handwork and great customer service with much genuine effort invested takes a lot of time. Time is money. Meticulous handwork is much more time consuming and difficult than simple casting. Selecting outstanding diamonds with outstanding light performance also takes much effort, education and experience. That said I am not sure that his store is actually offering the above. Most mall stores do not, they just claim to be better to justify a high price tag due to higher expenses involved in brick and mortar retailing. It is just a reality of such, making it very difficult for most such stores to survive today.

As to a retail store pricing a 1 carat F at 14 K, well, everyone has the right to price jewelry at whatever price point they want, it is up to the customer to make an informed decision. In my area a locally, albeit not internationally, well-known and trusted jewelry house offers a 1 ct steep deep H SI in a very unattractive and poorly made cast soli setting for over 18 K and they can because customers trust them and buy them in large numbers. Is the price ridiculous? Yes. Lesser known retail stores with exceptional workmanship and diamonds for less than half the price still cannot compete in most cases because their exposure is rather limited. Most customers are not educated like PS customer, neither do they want to do their homework, which plays to the advantage of such stores being able to price their merchandise at these price points. They also do not care if the occasional customer goes elsewhere, they have hundreds to make up for the loss of one.

I am not sure if the jeweler in your case is a popular one where you live OP but perhaps that is the case. I have also received poor service when I tested some of these popular, high-priced local stores because like I said they just do not care, they had ten other people buying for my lost sale in that given hour.

Is that right? No. Is it the type of trade practices I believe in? No. But it is reality in many cases.
 
This post is about museum quality jewellery which costs a lot more than retail quality.

An easy comparison would be to take a Leon Mege or Victor Cannera ring and lay it side by side with a cast ring. You can clearly see the difference between handforged and cast in that manner. To me the ring looks more solid and the actual molecules of the metal are more tightly packed I believe due to the metal being compressed and worked, whereas the cast ring inside will be more like a sponge quality although not quite or it would have porosity problems. The handforged ring will take a much more shiny and fluid like water looking polish. The ring may be more finely made as a compacted metal ring is more strong than a cast one which means cast needs to have more bulk and be a thicker ring for the same strength. The cost is far apart. The craftsmanship is far apart in a finely made ring. Ofcourse a rustic handforged ring may be made at a lower price and be equal to a cast ring's price.

I am happy with cast as cannot afford handforged quality in everything, I am happy with lesser cut diamonds too but there is definitely a difference if you train your eye to it. Most people are not buying this quality in general but in more wealthy circles you can bet that they are, e.g. Graff, Harry Winston, Hollywood A list actors, those who can afford it and still afford much more without it affecting their quality of life in anyway. A ferrari and a handforged with custom cut matching diamonds ring would go hand in hand, you would not expect anything less and likewise a working family's car and a cast ring would be more a match probably.

Onto the diamonds, what Rockdiamond said is another big difference in the price, the part about the corners being exactly the same, keel of the emerald being exactly lined up and we do mean exactly here as in absolutely exact under 10 x magnification or higher. Like Heart & Arrows from branded lines such as A Cut Above from Whiteflash, are cut exact, with diamond cutting tables welded into the floor and away from even the tiniest of vibrations which can make the cut be off a fraction or hundredth of a millimeter. By the way ACA large diamonds are not off by 0.3mm but by 0.03mm in some cases, this is the difference between museum quality and normal diamond cut. I actually don't know if Whiteflash is museum quality but there will be different steps of quality in between just as a high G and a low G color are different but are still both G color.
 
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I’m sorry that you had to suffer through such a rude condescending letter, regardless of content. Call me a special snowflake because I wouldn’t care how correct he is, I won’t waste another minute considering a vendor that is so rude. I’m outta there. Let’s give him the benefit of a doubt and that he does sell museum quality pieces. Well, let the museum buy them then.
 
I'm not surprised given it's an Australian Jeweller. I've also had issues in Melbourne when I tell jewelers I am going to buy a (Brian Gavin) diamond and want it potentially set here. I've had a salesperson from one well known jewellery store really criticize the signature princess BG diamond I picked saying the cut proportions were off (lolz). She also told me IGI and GIA gradings are the best for princess cuts and AGS is crap and I will have problems insuring an AGS graded diamond in Australia.... ridiculous. Needless to say I was unimpressed.

OP are you based in Melbourne? If so, can you PM me the name of the jeweler who wrote you that email so I know to avoid them...
 
There is a market for the “Hyundai Diamond” and the “Ferrari Diamond” however what buyers needs to be conscious of is that sticking a dancing horse emblem (Ferrari) on a Hyundai doesn’t warrant a price increase or make it a “Ferrundai”
 
Interesting feedback, thank you.

someone asked for the link, here it is; http://www.anthonys.com.au/index.php?route=common/home

My issue with them is the attitude that I would not be able to buy a comparable quality product ANYWHERE else in the whole world...like their store is the only one who could possibly make something quality.. and it was as soon as I questioned the price and gave some American options which were less than half the price - IDJ being one of them.

I haven't responded to them yet, not sure I can be bothered continuing an argument.

but its the same old thing here all the time, a distinct looking down upon at buying a ring/ diamond/ whatever online from any overseas store, like you just cannot get the quality they can offer anywhere.. its just ridiculous and frustrating.
 
DiamondJ said:
Interesting feedback, thank you.

someone asked for the link, here it is; http://www.anthonys.com.au/index.php?route=common/home

My issue with them is the attitude that I would not be able to buy a comparable quality product ANYWHERE else in the whole world...like their store is the only one who could possibly make something quality.. and it was as soon as I questioned the price and gave some American options which were less than half the price - IDJ being one of them.

I haven't responded to them yet, not sure I can be bothered continuing an argument.

but its the same old thing here all the time, a distinct looking down upon at buying a ring/ diamond/ whatever online from any overseas store, like you just cannot get the quality they can offer anywhere.. its just ridiculous and frustrating.
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They might be better than Prouds and Goldmark, but they really lack perspective on what else is out there :rolleyes2: not surprising. You must be in QLD too. I had a similar terrible attitude from Ashley Douglas in the city.
 
Shellcm said:
They might be better than Prouds and Goldmark, but they really lack perspective on what else is out there :roll2: not surprising. You must be in QLD too. I had a similar terrible attitude from Ashley Douglas in the city.
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Oh really.. can I ask what happened with Ashley Douglas? I had a custom ring made for my husband a couple months ago, nothing exciting just a plain gold signet ring.. but I was considering using them for a diamond reset I want to do.
 
DiamondJ said:
Oh really.. can I ask what happened with Ashley Douglas? I had a custom ring made for my husband a couple months ago, nothing exciting just a plain gold signet ring.. but I was considering using them for a diamond reset I want to do.
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I must have deleted the email, it left such a bad taste in my mouth. I was going to reset an old diamond and he was lovely and helpful (but his settings didn't look overly refined so I wasn't confident on their pave/halo work). I decided instead I would get a Brian gavin diamond and look at a solitaire instead. I asked him about solitaire settings instead and he gave me a huge spiel about how he was doing me a favour as a young couple with a family stone is what he likes but he would charge me a lot more if I went with a new stone instead. Again the message might be fine but it was long and condescending like your email. Prior to that he had scoffed at me when I said I was looking to buy a setting from the US as an option and told me they'd be ripping me off (again without knowing anything at all about who it was or what they were offering).

Stones downstairs from them were quite polite with nice work though.
 
Aussie here, my husband bought the diamond for our engagement ring online (from US) - this would be 2005/2006? It was just so much cheaper that way (limited budget) & meant we could afford decent setting.

We found a place in Melbourne (Ivanhoe) that were very approachable about working with us despite the faux pas of bringing in our own diamond
 
Well, I think they use scare tactics because for obvious reasons not many like working with a brought in diamond. Jewelers in general make money on the diamond and the setting but generally substantially more on the diamond (at least most here). Exquisite handwork is actually very affordable here as compared to the US. The second reason is liability and many old stones are already chipped, etc. Not everyone will work with a brought in diamond. Also there are people like me who specialize in diamonds and just enjoy that part of the trade but none of the above is an excuse to use aggressive scare tactics and/or a rude, condescending tone. They can say no in a nice way or yes and if they want to educate, do so in a constructive way that attracts and not repels customers. I educate customers who are interested because I am passionate about what I do and love working with people.
 
I don't think that is true about the company they use sourcing Graff Diamonds. If you have ever been into a Graff (I go once or twice a year), they always tell you they source all of their own diamonds.
 
Ugh, Anthony’s... I’ve been into their stores up here in QLD and haven’t been particularly impressed with their selection of round brilliants (of the B&M stores here in Brisbane, I would prefer to deal with Stone’s or Robert White Jewellers in the Brisbane Arcade instead).
 
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