De Beers undercuts the man made diamond price

[Johnbt]

"I've been watching for many years now that the newer generation have, in fact, been buying moissanites, Ashas, and lately MMD for the tremendous cost savings."

I suppose we're hanging with different crowds.

And posts on a discussion forum are pretty much a small, small, teeny, tiny, wee subset of the people in the world, whether it's common everyday items or yachts, $10k target rifles, $200k handmade & hand finished Italian shotguns with engraving people wait in line years to get, or most anything in my experience.

Man made diamonds don't do much for me. The man made part doesn't capture my imagination at all.

Otoh, I'm constantly amazed at what a select few highly talented people can do by making a few scratches on a piece of steel. No color or ink added, just scratches. By Francesca Fricassi...

By her father Firmo, or possibly both of them working together...




I suppose I should get back to looking for a wedding band and some diamond studs for my sweetie and stop daydreaming. I don't have the shotgun budget of someone like Clapton, Spielberg or Madonna.

 

[ChristineRose]

The younger people I know aren't buying diamond rings at all, but of course I don't know everybody.

Phones are highly functional--your quality of life and productivity will suffer greatly without a smart phone. Of course it doesn't has to be Apple, but you can make a case that Apple is better. But even if an Apple is a primarily a status symbol it doesn't follow that a diamond is a must-have status symbol in your circle.

 

[tkyasx78]

For those of you who are excited and ready to purchase an MMD, how does that make you feel about the thousands you already spent on your natural? Aren’t you afraid that by supporting this new product, you are contributing to the demise of your own natural diamond? I’m surprised to see so many pser’s excited about a product that reduces the value of your own diamond. What if you need to sell your ring or diamond earring studs in the second market? Why would anyone purchase off you when they can get perfect and new for a fraction? And the one carat club. Geez. Talk about how they feel. Yet so many here seem so enthusiastic about buying these and we are supposed to be the knowledgeable ones. I can only imagine how the rest of the public will respond. Hope no one here has to unload any one carat and under studs or pendants or rings.

I am well into 6 digits on jewelry ( when added together ) mostly diamond. I don't regret any of my diamonds. AND I don't worry about it at all. First off, when I paid for them there was never a guarantee that prices will remain stable or not fall. This is life. Having said that, just like a lab emerald is a much less cost from a fine natural one, or a wonderful pigeon ruby which are very hard to come by vs a lab ruby there will always be a difference between a natural unenhanced stone vs a lab or even the enhanced diamond.

Look at the cost of a lab alex that has a 100% color change vs a natural alex of the same size and quality. Just because they make alexandrite in a lab doesn't mean the natural alexandrites are less desired ( or cheaper YKES ) .

Do you remember when yehuda and the others started enhancing stones? People flipped out about the ability to get the black carbon bleached or a feather filled and then it would/could change the clarity grade a LOT ( I must admit I have sent several stones over the years for enhancement with removing a carbon spot on under the table ) They would take a diamond and fracture fill it or laser drill it ( they can even change the color now a days too depending on the composition of the diamond ) This would change the clarity or color grade. HOWEVER ( except for the color enhancement ) the changes made to the diamond made them worth significantly less because they were not permanent. There has always been a difference in price when something has been irradiated, oiled, filled, or lab made. There will always be a strong market for natural unenhanced diamonds. I would not settle for a 1 ct stone for 800 if I wanted a 2 or 3 carat natural.
I don't regret buying any of my natural diamonds. I would not replace my natural Ering diamond with a lab diamond. So while a young couple may choose a 1 ct lab diamond instead of a moissanite now to save money, I don't think there will be an issue in the long term.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sorry I have been AWOL while too many late nights at the vegas JCK show.
Half way thru an article after several interviews with Andrey and the poor depressed worried lab grown diamond people.

 

[tkyasx78]

need details!

 

[Gussie]

Read the latest thread about jck. It looks like they might talk about it. @tkyasx78

 

[ChristineRose]

They may be undercutting to kill the competition, which is probably illegal in the US. I'm wondering how that part of the story will end.

 

[WinkHPD]

I was referring to lab created colored stones. I have never seen a lab grown diamond so I have no idea if they look plastic. My point was that if the lgds are made to be perfect, without character similar to lab created colored stones, they will go in the same direction. And that Debeers recognizes that dropping the price renders them the same as lab grown colored stones.

Case in point. I have been searching for a 9mm stone for a setting this past week. Even though I could have a lab created sapphire or ruby in my budget, I am looking for a tourmaline or even a cab just because I think of lab created colored stones as meh. Lgds could easily go the same way.

I got into the jewelry industry selling colored gems when I was stationed in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. While I agree that most of the flame fusion synthetics have a "synthetic feel" to them and are quickly and easily sight ID'd as synthetics, some of the synthetics, such as the beautiful emeralds, sapphires and rubies grown by companies such as Chatham look like very high quality natural gemstones. In the late 70's and early 80's there was a synthetic ruby on the market that burned hundreds of well educated jewelers because they looked so incredibly real. (They still look incredibly real, but now the well educated jewelers are aware of them.)

While I wish it were true that you could always see the fake looking synthetics and know they were not real, it just is not true. So many of the synthetics look like high quality naturals, while costing a fraction of the price.

With my concentration only on the diamonds that I am so fond of loving, I rarely sell color at all any more, but when I do, the request for genuine is ten to one over the request for a good synthetic. It is NOT a cost issue, but a desire issue. There is just more desire for the natural, at least from my clientele.

Wink

 

[Texas Leaguer]

New commentary on the subject in this article:
https://www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/de-beers-lab-grown-line/

 

[tkyasx78]

Thank you so much!!
This was the part that stuck out to me!

So we are at 900 for the stone plus the cost of recutting and resetting into the earrings setting!

 

[whitewave]

New commentary on the subject in this article:
https://www.jckonline.com/editorial-article/de-beers-lab-grown-line/

“One person whose company sells lab-growns told me he was planning to sell a trade member a 1 ct. man-made for $3,200. After the De Beers announcement, the person called him and said he would pay no more than $800.”

Yup

 

[Miki Moto]

@Texas Leaguer Great article! I think DeBeers just put the MMD producers in their place trying to charge a huge amount for a lab-created stone. That was certainly ripping off the consumer. Sure, it can simulate a real diamond, but it's hardly worth $8K, perhaps $800 and that is even generous.

 

[HDer]

Looks like I was wrong. They do have some 1 carat diamonds for 800 or more accurately for 900 attached to 15 dollars worth of silver.

As a consumer who doesn't have anything invested in MMDs this is great news. Not sure how they'll make a profit at those prices but not my problem.

Now the only thing I'm waiting for are the 2 carats for 1600 or 3 carats for 2400. Wonder who's going to bring us those.

 

[Miki Moto]

I don’t know about spending $1-2K on something created that is basically worth nothing. Why not get a cubic zirconia earrings? It seems many people wear big blingy fakes and it’s perfectly fine with them. They don’t try to pass it off as a diamond. I have a friend who wears 4ctw cubic zirconias and she is proud to say... “these babies are fakes and I got them for $20!” For her, she is not even interested diamond earrings and thinks it’s a waste of money.

She is that fashion jewelry consumer group that DeBeers tasks about. Different market and I think DeBeers nailed it.

 

[blueMA]

Why not get a cubic zirconia earrings?

Because you can easily tell it's a CZ, at least for me.

 

[tkyasx78]

I don’t think a lab diamond is “fake” just like a lab emerald or alexandrite are not fake. They are real emeralds, they are just made in a lab.
They are not natural .
They are not rare.
They are as simple as getting a lab to make them ( therefore they are not the same as a natural unenhanced diamond)
But they to me are not fake- they are made by people- but they are still diamonds to me

 

[Miki Moto]

Because you can easily tell it's a CZ, at least for me.

Yes, I am sure you can see the difference as you're a pro.
But even if a person can't see the difference... Why pretend it's a diamond. It's a CZ. Like my friend, she does not try to pass it off as real diamond. We were at dinner a while ago, and someone said "look at those big earrings". My friend immediately said "oh, they are CZs, they are so fun". She did not pretend for a minute they were real. I admire her for that. And quite frankly, no one really cares if another person is wearing real or fake, at least I don't, as it does not impact my life. Jewelry is for me.

Which is why I don't understand why PSers here, on a forum that focuses primarily on mined super ideal diamonds, PSers being super picky about sparkle, shine, H&As, clouds, angles... spending days or weeks to find that perfect stone, and the happiness and thrill of finally finding it... I don't understand why PSers here would all of a sudden entertain the idea of buying a MMD.. a created stone that you can "order up" any time of day.

 

[Miki Moto]

I don’t think a lab diamond is “fake” just like a lab emerald or alexandrite are not fake. They are real emeralds, they are just made in a lab.
They are not natural .
They are not rare.
They are as simple as getting a lab to make them ( therefore they are not the same as a natural unenhanced diamond)
But they to me are not fake- they are made by people- but they are still diamonds to me

Agree... the key here is as you said... they are created, not natural, not rare.
Pure commodity, buy the cheapest one you can get as you can order them at any time. Mass production, factory-made.

 

[blueMA]

Yes, I am sure you can see the difference as you're a pro.
But even if a person can't see the difference... Why pretend it's a diamond. It's a CZ. Like my friend, she does not try to pass it off as real diamond. We were at dinner a while ago, and someone said "look at those big earrings". My friend immediately said "oh, they are CZs, they are so fun". She did not pretend for a minute they were real. I admire her for that. And quite frankly, no one really cares if another person is wearing real or fake, at least I don't, as it does not impact my life. Jewelry is for me.

Which is why I don't understand why PSers here, on a forum that focuses primarily on mined super ideal diamonds, PSers being super picky about sparkle, shine, H&As, clouds, angles... spending days or weeks to find that perfect stone, and the happiness and thrill of finally finding it... I don't understand why PSers here would all of a sudden entertain the idea of buying a MMD.. a created stone that you can "order up" any time of day.

I don't pretend CZ is a diamond, and although I buy stimulants to play around and experiment with them out of curiosity, I don't wear them in the public because I've noticed a long ago too many people gossiping and criticizing others for wearing the "fakes." I believe people buy CZs because it diminishes their itch for wanting the real diamonds while they can't afford them or refuse to pay the absurdly high price. I'm not a pro, and there are many others who could tell real diamonds in my circle. I just attended a wedding where pretty much all younger generation were wearing fun CZ pieces, and they looked beautiful. I have no problem with anyone trying to pass off anything as real or not - it's simply their choice. Why should that matter?

Have you wondered why you willingly spend upwards of 6 figures for these sparkly stones? I mean, your money could be better spent on vacations or for charity for greater goods? Is it because they're rare? - I hope not because diamonds are not that rare and they should be priced in lines of other (more rare) precious colored stones if it hadn't been for the supply/marketing controls. I love collecting all kinds of beautiful things, and it's never to show off to others but rather it's for my own enjoyment. I in fact hate to be seen as materialistic, which is why I shy away from huge blings. No other gem has the mesmerizing scintillating light quality of diamond, and I just love staring at it. I do the same with well made crystals, vases, figurines, paintings, drawing, etc. I hardly wear the many diamond earrings I buy, and sometimes I feel like a hoarder but I can't seem to help myself procuring additional "beautiful" things. I often feel like my old pet ferret who stole and hoarded my stuff in a little corner under my bed.

De Beers had sworn in not-so-distant past they'll never sell synthetic jewelry, and I don't believe they'll limit themselves to 1 carat as soon as the market turns in the near future. They're playing a dangerous game because while I would never trade up/in my sentimental e-ring and my earrings (they were never really investments anyways), I have no problem procuring additional bracelets, rings, necklaces, etc. made with inexpensive lab diamonds with the same optical quality/hardness and I would gladly use the saved money for far better purpose. Once I satisfy my itch, then I sure hope I won't be tempted to spend astronomical money on the not so rare sparkly stones.

 

[Gussie]

There is probably a set of folks who want the beauty of a diamond at the discount rate. CZ, moissanite, etc. can't match the beauty of a real diamond but a man made diamond can. It is the ideal stone for those who don't care if it is mined or man made.

 

[blueMA]

There is probably a set of folks who want the beauty of a diamond at the discount rate. CZ, moissanite, etc. can't match the beauty of a real diamond but a man made diamond can. It is the ideal stone for those who don't care if it is mined or man made.

Exactly. Lab rubies, emeralds, and sapphires never had the same effect on me. Most of the lab stones look too perfect (although now some even look included), but they just never did anything for me. But Diamonds - I'm like a helpless moth attracted to a bug light.

 

[jen2mc]

Is there anyone here who here has put off buying a natural diamond piece because they are waiting to see what the Lightbox options are?

 

[Rpb]

Me. I was thinking of buying a pair of stud earrings 1ct each diamonds, so I have put it on hold for the collection to come and order some. I have never owned any lab made diamonds or synthetics till date, so will order these just out of curiosity.

 

[Gussie]

It is often argued that cut is what most affects the beauty of a diamond. Cut - purely a result of man and technology. Will it be that much of a step for people to go all the way with man's contribution and leave nature out of it? I think so because there will be a loss of romanticism, the mystique of a billion year old stone if nature is taken out of it. However, I am older than the engagement crowd, lol. I really don't know, just thinking out loud.

 

[blueMA]

It is often argued that cut is what most affects the beauty of a diamond. Cut - purely a result of man and technology. Will it be that much of a step for people to go all the way with man's contribution and leave nature out of it? I think so because there will be a loss of romanticism, the mystique of a billion year old stone if nature is taken out of it. However, I am older than the engagement crowd, lol. I really don't know, just thinking out loud.

I doubt the engagement tradition will be affected as soon because of the alluded meanings of it all...

As far as decorative jewelries, I already own too many natural diamond pieces, I really should be off-loading them if anything but that'll probably never happen and I won't care if further additions are billion years or not. Nature or man-made, they're just further new collectibles.

 

[tkyasx78]

I have been saving to buy a nice sized pair of studs for a while. I dont like cz or moissanite and they would always not be “a diamond” in my mind. I had looked at lab diamond prices when I started saving and they were not priced low enough to justify buying them. While I wanted a 1.5 ct diamond in each ear, I want now to buy 2 - 1ct pendants and have them made into earrings instead. It will save a lot of money and frankly- they are earrings not an engagement ring.

I am also thinking of having a pendant made from the lab stones. I would not want an ering with a lab diamond though . Granted if they sell 4 ct lab diamond for 3200 - you can bet I’ll be getting a sweet right hand ring made!!

Is there anyone here who here has put off buying a natural diamond piece because they are waiting to see what the Lightbox options are?

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

...I love collecting all kinds of beautiful things, and it's never to show off to others but rather it's for my own enjoyment. I in fact hate to be seen as materialistic, which is why I shy away from huge blings. No other gem has the mesmerizing scintillating light quality of diamond, and I just love staring at it. I do the same with well made crystals, vases, figurines, paintings, drawing, etc. I hardly wear the many diamond earrings I buy, and sometimes I feel like a hoarder but I can't seem to help myself procuring additional "beautiful" things. I often feel like my old pet ferret who stole and hoarded my stuff in a little corner under my bed.

Thanks for reminding me of my old pet ferret, Spike, who did the same thing to me. And I understand your penchant, all too well.

 

[jen2mc]

I have been saving to buy a nice sized pair of studs for a while. I dont like cz or moissanite and they would always not be “a diamond” in my mind. I had looked at lab diamond prices when I started saving and they were not priced low enough to justify buying them. While I wanted a 1.5 ct diamond in each ear, I want now to buy 2 - 1ct pendants and have them made into earrings instead. It will save a lot of money and frankly- they are earrings not an engagement ring.

I am also thinking of having a pendant made from the lab stones. I would not want an ering with a lab diamond though . Granted if they sell 4 ct lab diamond for 3200 - you can bet I’ll be getting a sweet right hand ring made!!

What do you think the largest size earring will be? I know the largest they are making is 1 ct— but would they offer them in 1 ct per ear?

I recently ordered and received 1.4 ctw studs and the vendor put them in the wrong color metal so I sent them back. They’ve offered to re-set it and knock a couple bucks off for the hassle— but now I’m debating if I should wait until these come out. My preferred size would still be around 1.5 ctw. I don’t own any lab created gems. They are fun but I’ve always just wanted to wait for the “real thing”

 

[Rpb]

I think they would offer 2ctw. (2 X 1ct pieces). If not you can always buy 2 same pieces of pendants of 1ct each and re-set it as studs.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Looks like I was wrong. They do have some 1 carat diamonds for 800 or more accurately for 900 attached to 15 dollars worth of silver.

As a consumer who doesn't have anything invested in MMDs this is great news. Not sure how they'll make a profit at those prices but not my problem.

Now the only thing I'm waiting for are the 2 carats for 1600 or 3 carats for 2400. Wonder who's going to bring us those.

Be patient. It's only a matter of time. Eventually much cheaper than that, if the evolution of the LGD market is anything like the market of the many synthetic gems that have come before.