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De Beers Passport vs. IIDGR Certificate

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Rami al-Qadir, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Rami al-Qadir
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rami al-Qadir » Jul 17, 2017
    Hi all,

    First post, so sorry if it's been discussed, but I haven't seen it yet. I appreciate any help!

    I am shopping for a ring for my girlfriend to magically turn her into my fiance. Been doing a lot of research about grading, and came across an issue I can't figure out on my own.

    I understand that De Beers rings above 1 carat come with an IIDGR certficate and a GIA certificate, but so far the used ones I'm looking for online only come with a De Beers passport and not IIDGR.

    Is this the same thing? Are they graded in the same lab? Should I be suspicious?

    Also - stupid question, but what is the point of having both certificates? Don't they show the same thing?

    Thanks!
     
  2. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Jul 17, 2017
    All those supplementary and internal grading reports are meaningless without a grade report by a reputable third party laboratory such as GIA/AGS.
    It is possible that IIDGR is a legit lab. However, it is still own by De Beer and does not disclose any information or active research on how they cut-grade their stones. GIA and AGS do.
    Stick with GIA or AGS in North America, (or maybe Tiffany)
     
    bmfang and OoohShiny like this.
  3. Rami al-Qadir
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rami al-Qadir » Jul 17, 2017
    Thanks, flyingpig!

    Didn't know Tiffany even grades!

    I still just want to understand the differences better. Like what is a De Beers passport vs. IIDGR certificate.

    That GIA is the best seems to be the consensus, so why do De Beers diamonds sometimes come with both? Do they generally show the same grade?

    Thanks again!
     
  4. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Jul 17, 2017
    Like I said, De Beers passport and IIDGR are supplementary documents to claim that they are doing additional quality control that their internal inspection matches that of GIA.
    Many companies to this. Bluenile provides GCAL reports in addition to GIA/AGS reports. Other smaller reputable vendors do similar things. GOG and WF provide Sarin Report, again, in addition to GIA/AGS.

    Of course at the end, whatever information on GIA/AGS report should match the information on IIDGR/De Beers Passport/Sarin/GCAL.
    Otherwise, there is something wrong either at GIA/AGS or vendor's end.

    I don't know what De Beers marketing practice is these days. I think they switched from the passport to IIDGR to promote and expand the lab business.
    You should get either
    -GIA + IIDGR
    -GIA + De Beers passport.
    It should not matter what you get IIDGR or the passport, as long as you get the GIA report.
    IIDGR report is obviously issued by IIDGR.
    The passport may be issue by IIDGR or informal De Beers internal lab.
    But at the end, both are issued by De Beers because IIDGR is owned by De Beers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  5. MollyMalone
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by MollyMalone » Jul 17, 2017
    A possible explanation: the second-hand rings you've been seeing were originally sold before IIDGR was launched in 2008/2009.

    ETA a correction: IIDGR didn't start grading stones for DeBeers until 2010. See this article from The Rapaport Group:
    http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=55883
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  6. Rami al-Qadir
    Rough_Rock

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    by Rami al-Qadir » Jul 17, 2017
    Thanks all! I appreciate the clarification.
     
  7. MollyMalone
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by MollyMalone » Jul 17, 2017
    Well, there are 10 pages devoted to cut grading in IIDGR's 68-page Grading Standards handbook, posted on their web site:
    https://www.iidgr.com/globalassets/...rading-standards-v1.3-jan-2017-compressed.pdf

    A couple of general FYIs: IIDGR isn't confining itself to DeBeers/ Forevermark branded stones -- they began "generic grading" in February of last year & Rapaport started accepting IIDGR-graded stones for RapNet listing in April 2016.
    http://www.nationaljeweler.com/diam...d-grading-reports-from-2-labs-added-to-rapnet
     
    valeria101 likes this.
  8. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Jul 17, 2017
    thanks. I missed that.
     

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