darkside of ''''interracial'''' relationships

[kaylagee]

ed to add: I started this thread thinking of dating and marriage but it's open to any discussion of IR relations, interactions, questions etc.


*****
hmm, wonder what this will be like? i hope they didn't go too trite...http://www.somethingnewmovie.net/sn-splash.html

I am the only female that I know of in my entire family(both sides) married to a 'non-black'. A distant cousin saw my wedding photo at my great-aunt's and was shocked but somehow calmed down when he learned dh was not American 'white' but French 'white'(shrug)...

My great-aunt mimicked his alarm...

"Who is this in our family married to a white man?!!"

Meanwhile, there are many men in my family who are inter-married(to Euros, Amer.'white's, Asians and Latinas). i really don't get all of the drama abt a 'mixed' rel'p.

Are the rules different for women?

..this is reminding me of one of Dancing Fire's posts

Date: 1/20/2006 3:46:02 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
25-30 yrs ago, for a chinese girl to marry any other race (especially black) it would of been an embarrassment to the girl's parents,they would try to hide it from their friends.nowadays, i don't think is such a big deal.

so it would have been different for a man? i haven't seen many asian men with black women at all. When i was in high school a japanese guy had a crush on me and we talked on the phone maybe twice. Once his parents found out that i was black(part black but realizing the 'contamination' one-dropism here in the US, I suppose the specifics don't matter to many folks...) that was the end of it.

Also since I'm thinking about this..what exactly is it that some Asians have against blacks?! Specifically?

Is it an assumption that blacks are naturally degenerate(crime, poverty,low-morals, violent)? Is it a revulsion to(at?) African physical features? Is there some historical reason for bitterness toward blacks?

I'm also wondering if it's first-hand disgust or merely joining in with the European hatred of blacks?

Finally is this a taboo against all people of African descent? So is a dating/marrying a true African(from say, Ghana, Somalia, or Zaire) or Caribbean seen as any different than dating or marrying an African American/black american.

These questions aren't meant only for DF but for anyone who can shed some light.

 

[kaylagee]

another question:

Have you ever felt that someone wanted to date you mainly because of your color/ethnicity?

There were a couple of weirdos for me but I don''t have time to detail right now...

 

[AGBF]

Hi, kaylagee-

When I was growing up (late 1950''s and the 1960''s) I noticed that black boys often had white girlfriends and that few black girls had white boyfriends. I am giving the dates to show at what point, historically, we are talking about.

I think I started to think about this because the boy next door, while in the navy in Okinawa, married a local black woman he had been dating and had children with her. It seemed unusual, although I knew black teenage guys with white girlfriends. I, like you, didn''t really know what to make of the way that black men dated white women, but black women didn''t usually date white men.

I never condsidered adding Asians to the equation at the time! Now I am thinking how odd it is that white slave owners and rich southern white boys historically had children with black women-the taboo then being black men with white women-while the opposite was true when I was growing up!

This is a very interesting topic!

Deborah

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 3:10:26 AM
Author: AGBF


Hi, kaylagee-


When I was growing up (late 1950's and the 1960's) I noticed that black boys often had white girlfriends and that few black girls had white boyfriends. I am giving the dates to show at what point, historically, we are talking about.


I think I started to think about this because the boy next door, while in the navy in Okinawa, married a local black woman he had been dating and had children with her. It seemed unusual, although I knew black teenage guys with white girlfriends. I, like you, didn't really know what to make of the way that black men dated white women, but black women didn't usually date white men.


I never condsidered adding Asians to the equation at the time! Now I am thinking how odd it is that white slave owners and rich southern white boys historically had children with black women-the taboo then being black men with white women-while the opposite was true when I was growing up!


This is a very interesting topic!


Deborah

To my flu-addled & sleepy brain, it seems simple(re: slave days). White land/slave-owning men could have whoever they wanted. Power.

Black men, low-status, little power, so the IR taboo?

50s and 60s. Now, I'm shocked! I didn't know blk men-white women dating was so prevalent. Where did you grow up?

As far I've read it's still true that more black men date outside than women. Most of my black female friends/relatives will not give an American white man a chance. Forget marriage. Maybe it's mistrust of motive, the historical shadow etc. I'll think about this more and ask around.

I do know several mixed couples blk Amer.-fem /wht Amer-men (France is an entirely different scene..)but I was thinking specifically of my family.

I read a weird study(I have to find it again) comparing animals and people. It was sort of complicated but the basic idea was that female animals and human are less-likely to mate outside of their breed?

I wish I had it in front of me because I don't remember the details & how the scientists explained the females who mated with the less discriminate 'outsider' males. They had to go with someone, right?

So, they also supplied survey info, marriage records etc. that showing that men of any group were intermarried proportionally more than 'their' women.

 

[flower12]

Date: 1/23/2006 11:23:48 PM
Author: kaylagee
another question:

Have you ever felt that someone wanted to date you mainly because of your color/ethnicity?

There were a couple of weirdos for me but I don''t have time to detail right now...

hi! kaylagee
I am japanse and my DH is caucasian German.English.French.Irish
he is the only male that I know of in he''s entire family(both sides) married to a non white.
I was bit surprised when I went to huge family party ,maybe more than 150 people got together .
me and my kids were only non blue eye''s there.

second question one.
yes, . some weird men have stereo type idea of Japanese is quite and listen anything what men says.


me and DH went to Thai land couple years ago.
we went to small Island by optional tour with groop of an American men ( maybe 7 people)
two of them asked to my DH that ** when you ganna finish the girl ?which agency she from?**
my DH told them that I am he''s wife etc........
they were so embarresed... couple of them was wearing thier compnay Logo named shirts

so I never forget the company .it''s pretty big company so everytime I see the name
it''s makes me remember the happend

 

[Dancing Fire]

..this is reminding me of one of Dancing Fire''s posts

Date: 1/20/2006 3:46:02 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
25-30 yrs ago, for a chinese girl to marry any other race (especially black) it would of been an embarrassment to the girl''s parents,they would try to hide it from their friends.nowadays, i don''t think is such a big deal.

so it would have been different for a man? i haven''t seen many asian men with black women at all. When i was in high school a japanese guy had a crush on me and we talked on the phone maybe twice. Once his parents found out that i was black(part black but realizing the ''contamination'' one-dropism here in the US, I suppose the specifics don''t matter to many folks...) that was the end of it.

nope,not really. the chinese parents still wouldn''t approve the marriage.

Also since I''m thinking about this..what exactly is it that some Asians have against blacks?! Specifically?

Is it an assumption that blacks are naturally degenerate(crime, poverty,low-morals, violent)? Is it a revulsion to(at?) African physical features? Is there some historical reason for bitterness toward blacks?

yep, to be honest. that''s what the older chinese generation thinks. i know,i know, it is wrong of them to think the way they do.

These questions aren''t meant only for DF but for anyone who can shed some light.

 

[kaylagee]

hi! kaylagee

I am japanse and my DH is caucasian German.English.French.Irish

he is the only male that I know of in he's entire family(both sides) married to a non white.

I was bit surprised when I went to huge family party ,maybe more than 150 people got together .

me and my kids were only non blue eye's there.


second question one.

yes, . some weird men have stereo type idea of Japanese is quite and listen anything what men says.

me and DH went to Thai land couple years ago.

we went to small Island by optional tour with groop of an American men ( maybe 7 people)

two of them asked to my DH that ** when you ganna finish the girl ?which agency she from?**

my DH told them that I am he's wife etc........

they were so embarresed... couple of them was wearing thier compnay Logo named shirts

so I never forget the company .it's pretty big company so everytime I see the name

it's makes me remember the happend

OMG that is insane (about Thailand scene)!!

I would have been too upset! You don't have to say, but now I'm wondering what company it was!

About the family gatherings, LOL. Lots of blue and grey eyes around there too. :> There was a big party for us in France when I arrived. In dh's family, it's all French except for a second cousin on his mother's side whose wife is from Mali.

****
*Some men have assumed that black women are wilder/faster sexually but from women i've talked to the black women have more inhibitions/hang-ups...but who really knows what happens "behind closed doors'?(cue the dolly parton music)

*That we're hyper-materialistic(sez me on the diamond forum..ulp)
At the opposite there's that idea that we're low-rent cheapies and are happy with just anything. We should be glad to be in the presence of a man.

*We don't/can't swim. Granted water and humidity aren't exactly welcome for the hair-straightening contingent, but i'm over that and my father taught us to swim when we we little.

*We have round bubble butts. This one I wish were true. I'd love to be shaped like Oprah or Beyonce...my body type is more like many Chicanas/Mexican women.

Also the big one lately: that we all growl and snarl at the sight of a black man with a non-black woman. I've actual met couples where the woman was nervous and the man aloof at first because they're were expecting a cold-shoulder, mean comment or even a confrontation.

To be fair...One of my friends(italian-irish) actually had girls trying to start physical fights with her for being with a black guy.

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 4:21:21 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

..this is reminding me of one of Dancing Fire''s posts

Date: 1/20/2006 3:46:02 AM

Author: Dancing Fire

25-30 yrs ago, for a chinese girl to marry any other race (especially black) it would of been an embarrassment to the girl''s parents,they would try to hide it from their friends.nowadays, i don''t think is such a big deal.

so it would have been different for a man? i haven''t seen many asian men with black women at all. When i was in high school a japanese guy had a crush on me and we talked on the phone maybe twice. Once his parents found out that i was black(part black but realizing the ''contamination'' one-dropism here in the US, I suppose the specifics don''t matter to many folks...) that was the end of it.


nope,not really. the chinese parents still wouldn''t approve the marriage.


Also since I''m thinking about this..what exactly is it that some Asians have against blacks?! Specifically?


Is it an assumption that blacks are naturally degenerate(crime, poverty,low-morals, violent)? Is it a revulsion to(at?) African physical features? Is there some historical reason for bitterness toward blacks?


yep, to be honest. that''s what the older chinese generation thinks. i know,i know, it is wrong of them to think the way they do.

These questions aren''t meant only for DF but for anyone who can shed some light.

Thanks for clarifying, DF! This isn''t exactly the type of thing you can stop someone in Raley''s and ask about but I''ve wondered for a long time. I appreciate your honesty.

So, is this based on their direct experience w/ black degenerates or from gossip, media? Is this a blanket...meaning a black murder=black surgeon=black fast foods clerk=black engineer. All the same?

Did they hold this view before arriving in the US?

Can you expand please? I''m going to sleep but will check back in the morning...

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/24/2006 3:39:54 AM
Author: kaylagee
50s and 60s. Now, I''m shocked! I didn''t know blk men-white women dating was so prevalent. Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Connecticut. Within commuting distance of New York City, so that there was some sophistication.

I have to admit that there were only one or two (I think one) black child(ren) in my elementary school. By the time I was in a Unitarian-Universalist church youth group, however, I started to get around the entire New England and Mid-Atlantic area. I saw black boys with white girls at that point. If I was around 14, the year would have been 1965. While at a sleep-away camp or on a weekend conference I got romantic with a black boy. We went up to a railroad trestle and put pennies on the tracks and watched them get squashed by a train. We also did some kissing and cuddling. It was extremely innocent. I had known the boy for a long time; he was ferociously bright and went to one of the best high schools in New York City. I bet if I looked him up now, I would find he had contributed towards a cure for a rare disease or built a famous bridge somewhere!

That''s my story. I won''t generalize to the general US population from it . I know it felt odd to me to be kissing a black boy, but I had seen many black boy/ white girls together.

Deb

 

[eks6426]

I'm in the midwest so things are more conservative here.

In the late 60s my white aunt brought home a black man she married. My grandfather didn't speak to her for a year...until my white mom brought home her white NON CATHOLIC boyfriend. Suddenly, my aunt's black husband who was Catholic was in better standing. Ha!

Fast forward 40 years....I have grown up with my mixed race cousins from the above white/black marriage so I thought this was just "normal." Now, my mixed race cousins are of marrying age and they tell me that they feel they have the "choose" a race...so if they marry white girls they need to forget the black part of their heritage or vice versa. Funny thing is the black girls don't think the mixed race boys are "black enough" but the white girls family's are still scared of the "blackness" in them (that old drop of black blood thing again.) I guess things haven't changed much.

Also, my step-son is 16 and in high school. His high school is about 50/50 white/black mix. He says that if a white boy dates a black girl that none of the white girls will ever go out with the boy again...like he is contaminated or something. In fact, even being close friends with a black girl as a white boy is enough to make the white girls not date him. There's even a saying they use, "Once black, never back...." I wonder if this is why you don't see too many white men with black women?

 

[cnspotts]

This thread is very interesting and it''s so shameful that so many people still only see the color of a person and not their character. I briefly dated a black man in my early 20''s, my mother was shocked and relieved when we did not continue the relationship. Later on I had a black male roomate for several months, occasionally we''d go to dinner or the movies and it that southern town people would part a path for us, and just stare. We found it rather sad and amusing that even as friends we made such a chatter.

When my daughter was graduating from kindergarten many years ago my husband, her father was quite stunned to see that the boy she had a crush on all through class was black. It never occured to me that he''d think the boy was white because we were. I noticed that over the years she has been drawn to boys of different ethnic backgrounds. I''ve encourage her to see the person inside rather than their skin.

She is a junior in highschool now, I''ve remarried and moved, she has lived the last 3 years with her father to keep her in the same school system that she''s always gone to. I''ve noticed that she graviates towards white boys completely now. It''s something I''ve noticed but not mentioned wanting her to develop on her own who she chooses to partner with later in life. I do feel that her step-mom and father have expressed their influence on who is appropriate and who is not. Her highschool is very mixed ethnically so I''ve wondered which is it? Has her father expressed a bit more influence over her choice of crushes pushing her toward more white boys, or is it something that has occured naturally in the population of highschool cliques? Her girlfriends are of mixed races but the boys she likes now are all whites.

In middle school she told me that she had to back up one of crushes to her dad saying that mom didn''t care what the race/sex was as long as the person was good to her. I have no doubt my ex was shocked as he''s never considered she might one day say she prefers women, but that''s another topic.

 

[MrsFrk]

In some immigrant Asian families, it is a big deal still if a child, male or female, marries someone of a different race. Even if it is a different Asian (Vietnamese instead of Chinese, for instance) it can be a big deal. I too have never seen a Asian man/black woman combo; it is far more common around here for white men to marry Asian women- the Asian man/white woman combo is still relatively rare. To be perfectly frank, Asian men are often smaller in stature, and I think a lot of women tend to avoid that.

My friend married a black man; we live in liberal Northern California, and I could not believe the comments that I heard. Mainly from her mother''s friends- I was shocked to hear them from this circle.

Conversely, his black Chicago relatives were outraged. "Don''t tell me he went and married some white girl!!!" He is well educated (PhD in Electrical Engineering) and he is routinely accused of "selling out" and "Uncle Tom-ing" because he moved to CA and married a white woman.

Don''t even get me started on his black relatives'' comments about his children''s hair.

 

[OldBride]

Interesting topic.
My first husband (who passed away) was an American of Japanese decent (sansei) from Los Angeles. I am a Jewish woman of Eastern European descent. My husband never dated a Japanese woman, and none of his siblings were married to people of Japanese descent. The family scandal, way back when, occured when his aunt married a Chinese man. Her mother threatened suicide at the prospect, but eventually got over it.

My parents were very upset about the marriage, so much that they nearly boycotted our wedding. Their dismay, they claimed, was not because he was Asian, but because he was not Jewish (yeah, right). They eventually got over it, but when I became pregnant with our first son, my mother did not speak to me for about three months. My husband''s family was always kind and welcoming and we enjoy a close reltationship to this day. I don''t recall many unpleasant incidents, although we did get some odd looks since the "white woman/Asian man" combination is more unusual than the other way around. What always annoyed me is that strangers never saw us as a couple. For example in the grocery checkout line, checkers would assume that we were not together.

 

[saturn]

This discussion reminded me of an article I once read:
http://www.nationalreview.com/14july97/feature.html

I definitely don''t agree with all the stuff the article says, but it is an interesting discussion of some of the issues brought up here.

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 2:39:57 PM
Author: ...What always annoyed me is that strangers never saw us as a couple. For example in the grocery checkout line, checkers would assume that we were not together.

That has happened to us too at shops. I've also been assumed to be the babysitter/nanny for my children as well(esp my oldest son).

Speaking of them, I worry about their emotional/psycho-social development if we stay here in the United State past a certain age. They're 'sooo cute' to mostly everyone now but I'm afraid of the day they'll just be scary black(well, maybe ambigously) guys to many people. It makes me sad sometimes.

ed. to add

Some of my more 'unidentifiable' friends dislike the "What are you/What's your background?" question because it's as if the person deciding how they should treat you/where you rank in the caste system. Not always the case, I'm sure there is often true curiousity/intrigue but many times the underlying question is "Are you part African?"

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 2:57:37 PM
Author: saturn
This discussion reminded me of an article I once read:

http://www.nationalreview.com/14july97/feature.html


I definitely don''t agree with all the stuff the article says, but it is an interesting discussion of some of the issues brought up here.

I''m scanning it now...thanks saturn!

 

[kaylagee]

An article about the image of Asian-American men...

"Paying more than just lip-service to the de-masculinization of the Asian male in popular American culture, Audrey magazine searches high and low for answers about where our perceptions of the sexuality of the Asian American male came from, and how much, if at all, they''ve really changed..."


http://www.audreymagazine.com/June2004/Features03.asp

 

[nytemist]

Yep, it is pretty sad how people put so much into race. Like I said in the other thread, I''m black and date a white man. Our famillies have no issue with this at all. We look at each other and see the person we love. Being in Boston, a lot of folks have a problem with it. We''ve walked along in malls in the suburbs and people do stare. Specifically, white people will look (what are you doing with her) black people will actually say something to me (how can you sell out? how can you betray your history?) We''ve been on the subway or a bar or something together and most of the time if there is a group of black women around, they will make a remark loud enough for me to hear it. We have walked into restaurants and hotels where we''re met with a hint of confusion when they realize we are there together.Truly pathetic behavior.

I never looked for a certain type. I would always gravitate to the people who interested me and had similar things in common. Even by myself I''m constantly reminded that I should be treated as a second class citizen.

If someone is happy, leave them be. Don''t we all want someone to be happy with? I do really hate that this happens to us. Some heartless people tell me that "we asked for it" by being together. Ask most black people and they will tell you that almost daily they expect for someone to judge them by their color (you know, women who will hold their purse tighter as you walk by) I know that my BF was never sujected to that growing up, and it makes me feel bad that being with me forces him to expect a stare or comment.

The heart doesn''t know color.

 

[Hest88]

I think the black issue has been covered nicely here, so I won''t bother trying to contribute when I can''t add anything meaningful.

As to the Asian thing (heh, since I''m Asian!), I think the de-masculinization of Asian men is part of the same reason why Asian women seem to be, uh, prized among many men (enough so that it''s the origin of sitcom jokes): Asians are seen as meek and malleable, so while that makes for an "ideal" woman it is seen as wimpiness in men.

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 4:50:47 PM
Author: Hest88
I think the black issue has been covered nicely here, so I won''t bother trying to contribute when I can''t add anything meaningful.

''covered nicely''?... sigh... i''ll ask again(to any of the many Asians in the PS family)...



So, is this based on their direct experience w/ black degenerates or from gossip, media? Is this a blanket...meaning a black murder=black surgeon=black fast foods clerk=black engineer. All the same?

Did they hold this view before arriving in the US?

I''ll add another Q: Is this a life-long, unchangeable prejudice for many? Does contact with the Other make any difference?
TIA

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/24/2006 4:38:53 AM
Author: kaylagee
Thanks for clarifying, DF! This isn''t exactly the type of thing you can stop someone in Raley''s and ask about but I''ve wondered for a long time. I appreciate your honesty.


So, is this based on their direct experience w/ black degenerates or from gossip, media? Is this a blanket...meaning a black murder=black surgeon=black fast foods clerk=black engineer. All the same?


Did they hold this view before arriving in the US?


Can you expand please? I''m going to sleep but will check back in the morning...

To be honest, for the older generation/super traditionalist types, I think they consider all blacks the same unfortunately. More progressive can separate the surgeons/engineers from the criminals, but they still wouldn''t want their kids marrying one. And it''s pretty much all Asians. Asians are actually REALLY racist, even against other Asian races. For some strange reason, blacks get a really bad rap here in America among the old school Asians. I think it''s some media, some personal experiences. From my limited conversations with Asians back in Asia (pretty limited cuz the subject of blacks doesn''t come up often), they have no opinion of blacks cuz they just aren''t around. My relatives back there seem to get their opinions of blacks from the ones who''ve moved to America.

I really don''t think they held as strong an opinion against blacks before they moved to America. I got a cousin who''s been dating a white guy for quite some time now. My aunt was initially horrified. Don''t think if he''d have been black, it would have been any worse. I think the fact that he was non-Chinese was the problem. I''m guessing she''d have been slightly less horrified if he''d have been Korean or Japanese or something, but that''s only a guess. Might have been just as horrified.

 

[codex57]

Feel free to keep asking questions. I do too. Communities like this are often much better than asking people face to face. Tend to get more honest answers.

As for whether it''s a lifelong prejudice or not, it depends. The older generation seems to be a lifelong prejudice, no matter what. I''m talking what are now about the grandparent age. Even if there''s some black or white person that''s totally nice to them.

The middle/parent age crowd is more progressive. They still tend to be prejudiced, but having positive personal experiences does seem to affect them and those that have those positive personal experiences do seem to be less prejudiced from now on.

The younger ones of course don''t seem to see color or anything else like that, even if they are on the conservative side. Many Asian Americans seem to have gone super liberal though.

 

[Hest88]

Sorry Kayla if you thought your question hadn''t been answered to your satisfaction. I thought the answers covered it. I tend to think that if one extrapolates the reasons for white prejudice against blacks you''ll find the same reasoning applies. Traditionally, racists in the U.S. paint all black men as potentially dangerous, and those that they know and like are considered "exceptions." You know, "good blacks" who are better than the rest of their race. For traditional Chinese immigrants, you''ve had fewer generations to grapple with race issues and be exposed to different races here in the U.S.

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/24/2006 5:20:31 PM
Author: Hest88
Sorry Kayla if you thought your question hadn''t been answered to your satisfaction. I thought the answers covered it. I tend to think that if one extrapolates the reasons for white prejudice against blacks you''ll find the same reasoning applies. Traditionally, racists in the U.S. paint all black men as potentially dangerous, and those that they know and like are considered ''exceptions.'' You know, ''good blacks'' who are better than the rest of their race. For traditional Chinese immigrants, you''ve had fewer generations to grapple with race issues and be exposed to different races here in the U.S.

I expect that''s how it''ll end up as well. Asian immigrants just haven''t had enough generations. Chinese immigrants actually have one of the more extensive histories in the US in terms of Asians. One of my best friends is something like 6th generation.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I'll chime in too. I think there can be bad feelings between Asians (esp. Koreans) and blacks due to economic reasons. California and Korean grocers come to mind- in the past, Korean immigrants set up corner shops in historically black neighborhoods, thus squeezing out the black shop owners. There's resentment on both sides. Additionally, the rest of the world sees American movies, and all the stereotypes those movies carry. I guess perhaps personal experience has played a part too. I'm Asian and I'm sad to say, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of racism, from both blacks and whites. There is a fair amount of sociological research regarding black-asian relations.

I've never dated an Asian (well, I went out on one ill-fated date with a guy from Pakistan, but that was so wrong for other non-religious or racial reasons), but I think I'm generally not attracted to them b/c I didn't know any growing up or at college, and even though I live in DC, I still don't know many Asian men- maybe 3 or 4, max.

In my Polish and Italian Catholic extended family, we have my sister and m (adopted Asians), and my Italian-Irish cousins married a black woman from the Dominican Republic, a Latino, and another Korean.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 1/24/2006 4:57:26 PM
Author: kaylagee

''covered nicely''?... sigh... i''ll ask again(to any of the many Asians in the PS family)...


So, is this based on their direct experience w/ black degenerates or from gossip, media? Is this a blanket...meaning a black murder=black surgeon=black fast foods clerk=black engineer. All the same?

Did they hold this view before arriving in the US?

I''ll add another Q: Is this a life-long, unchangeable prejudice for many? Does contact with the Other make any difference?
TIA

The preconceived notions about African-Americans is secondary. It''s really about preconceived notions of skin color. For example, I have Dravidian friends who are routinely mistaken for African-American by African-Americans. Dravidians identify as Indians first, Asians second, but my East Asian parents would still be upset, because they''re dark-skinned. In Asia, darker skin= poor people =less education. So, yes, they had this view of color-ism/classism before coming to the United States. But in Asia, most everyone is the same race, so there''s no one to be racist toward. This color-ism only manifests itself as racism in the US because, here, there are many distinct racial groups.

Now of course, black murderer/surgeon/food service worker/engineer is not considered all the same. If I brought home an African-American surgeon/engineer, my engineer parents wouldn''t be worried about "crime, poverty, low morals, or violence." Then, it becomes an argument of aesthetics. Dark skin just isn''t considered beautiful. The underlying reason is probably because dark (Asian) girls=poor-->don''t take care of themselves in appearence/health, so it is related to economics, but it''s first a matter of aesthetics. Example: my sister and I tan easily, and are often mistaken as "brown" in the summer months, most oftenly Filipina or Latina (we do look racially ambiguous when we''re tan.) My parents are both fair. Every summer, my mother wonders (laments?) where her two daughters get their dark(er) skin, and tells us it isn''t beautiful.

 

[kaylagee]

Thanks Codex and Hest! Growing up in the SF Bay Area I''ve had these questions rattling around my brain for a long time.

.. Wondering if the anti-black prejudice is part of becoming American?

So, where do people like Amerie, Tiger Woods(i''m thinking of a Chris Rock stunt where he''s asking Asians if they acknowledge Woods as a ''member of the tribe''), Kimora Lee Simmons etc. fit in or not fit in?

The biracial afro-asians I''ve known personally have been of Af-Philipino and Af-Korean mix and they said they were not entirely included on the asian family side. One friend''s mom divorced her black dad and remarried a philipino man so she has younger half-sisters that are usually favored over her.

About black women-asian men unions: Actually, I do know of 3 black females (daughters of my mom''s friends, so I don''t really know them) who married Asian men. 2 are Philipino, 1 Japanese.

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Maybe I''m in a pessimistic mood today but I wonder if exposure to other cultures or people will ever make a big enough difference. I mean really, no one has to like anyone else.(shrug) There''s so much evidence that you can''t legislate good feelings between people.
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I am glad to read so many other experiences and ideas! Thanks and please keep them coming!

 

[JulieN]

Kimora Lee Simmons...she''s in a class of her own. There''s a lot of celeb bashing on PS, so I feel free to say that Asians don''t care what she is, she''s just ugly.

 

[Hest88]

Date: 1/24/2006 6:38:19 PM
Author: kaylagee
Wondering if the anti-black prejudice is part of becoming American?

Heh, that''s almost funny if it weren''t also sad.

Maybe I''m in a pessimistic mood today but I wonder if exposure to other cultures or people will ever make a big enough difference.

Part of me is pessimistic too. To be honest, I think that the human brain naturally compartmentalizes and simplifies as a way to try to understanding complex issues. Unfortunately, that means creating half-truths and irrelevant boxes. I also think people naturally create tribes and enjoy a certain "us vs. them" competitive mentality. Witness sports teams. As a result, I think even if race weren''t an issue we''d come up with other ways of categorizing people.

And, what''s sad is the compartmentalizing isn''t just between groups; it''s within groups as well (such as if a black person enjoys opera, in some crowds he''s considered inauthentic). I wish we could let people just be *individuals* with all the complexity that individuals have. I am not my race first and foremost, or my sex first and foremost, or a gem lover first and foremost, and I wouldn''t want to be. I want to be, well, just me; all of those things and much more!

 

[kaylagee]

Date: 1/24/2006 6:51:09 PM
Author: Hest88

Date: 1/24/2006 6:38:19 PM

Author: kaylagee

Wondering if the anti-black prejudice is part of becoming American?


Heh, that''s almost funny if it weren''t also sad.

It really does feel as if it''s in an immig/nat. handbook somewhere as a pre-req!

I suppose I should take care that dh doesn''t turn on me one day. LOL!