Home Cutting family members out of your life

[luckystar112]

I know some of you have made the painful decision to cut family members out of your life and I''m hoping you might be willing to share--especially if that person was a parent.
Was the decision hard or easy?
How did you KNOW it was the right step to take?
How long did you think about it before doing it?
Did you just "disappear" or did you give a reason?
Do you ever regret it?
Has that person ever tried to manipulate themselves back into your life? If so, what did you do?
What will happen when they die?

I know there is something wrong with asking personal questions without sharing my story. It''s about my mother (as always). I am overwhelmed with extreme guilt every time I post about her. So while I am very willing to share the story I just want to make sure it''s necessary first (instead of b!tching and having no replies, you know?). But I can say that I''ve been going back and forth on this decision for YEARS, the feeling doesn''t go away during her "calm" periods, and her rage can have nothing to do with me and yet still affect me--as in this last instance (I actually haven''t talked to my mother in weeks. She''s "mad" at me for something somewhat related).

So if you''re willing to share I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[beau13]

Hey Lucky..I have had to detach myself from my mother recently, although we have not talked for long periods of time (a year or more) over the course of the past 15 years. She has a looooong history of mental illness, which she tends to use as an excuse to harass people, and do unspeakable things to those she should (or you'd think she would) love.

Was the decision hard or easy?
Difficult at first, easier each time she did something unspeakable!

How did you KNOW it was the right step to take?
When she threatened her grandkids (my children) over the phone. The was the last straw! She could be sweet as pie to them, and myself one day, and snap the next day, saying things like "I hate you", or "your voice makes me sick", for no apparent reason (out of the blue, after months have passed wihout any interaction). I can't allow that to affect my children, they were too young to understand why grandma is so mean suddenly, when just yesterday she was full of hugs & kisses. I don't trust her around my children, since her behaviour is too unpredictable! (She jumped out of a 5th floor hospital window, and doesn't remember, and chalked it up to all the meds the docs were shoving down her throat). Whose to say she wouldn't throw one of my kids off her 5th floor apartment balcony, and have no recollection, maybe pleading temporary insanity?? I can't take that chance!

How long did you think about it before doing it?
I gave her plenty of chances to prove to me, why I should forgive & forget the things she did in the past (such as not show up to my wedding, call children's aid with false accusations, call me 10 times a day leaving harassing voice messages),so not long after each of these incidences, I told her I didn't want anything to do with her anymore. She did try to manipulate her way back into my life however.

Did you just "disappear" or did you give a reason?
No reason or explanation needed...her actions should be enough reason for my (your) choice to detach from her.

Do you ever regret it?
I only regret wasting so much time & energy (years) allowing her into my life, for the sake of the kids, only for her to blow it for herself , each time.

Has that person ever tried to manipulate themselves back into your life? If so, what did you do?
She has always tries..especially now, since my father is in the hospital dying...she must feel like she will be alone when he's gone, her kids want nothing to do with her (my brother has also detached himself from her). Stand your ground is what I think, and don't allow her to make you feel guilty about your choice to disassociate.

What will happen when they die?
I will likely feel relief.

I don't know what the circumstances are between your mother and you, but like I said, my mother has a lengthy history of mental illness (manic depressive, bi-polar, seasonal disorder,agorophobic, severe chemical imbalances..and the list goes on). Maybe Whitby can explain some of these illnesses. Anyway..I've tried to understand that she suffers from a disease, but the Psychiatrist once tried to explain to me, that the reason she has done alot of these "things" to me, is out of jealousy. You'd think a mother would be proud of her child's accomplishments, and successes in life, but she does everything she can to sabotage that, and acts out of spite and jealousy (toward myself, and a little less with my brother). It's been sort of a competition for her, she apparently feels my father loved me more than her growing up (which I think is insane), but Tori Spelling and her mother went through the same kind of thing, and they no longer talk to each other. I don't know what else to tell you, maybe the relationship is different with boys and their mother, than it is with girls. I can't imagine doing any of the things my mother has put me through , with my two boys!! Her moods change at the drop of a hat..going from super sweet (when she wants something) to super "B", without warning!! I don't know why, but I've heard of quite a few mother/daughter relationships that have ended in total detachment between the two. Best of luck, I hope you two can resolve your issues, but don't feel guilty for whatever you choose to do, and know that it's likely for the best, if she treats you HALF as badly as my mother has treated me for over 15 years!

 

[radiantquest]

i am willing to share, but i must warn you it will be long. very long. and of course i will happy to *listen* to your story

when i was little my father worked, he had a good job that comfortably supported both me and my mother. i was an only child. when i was about 6 they divorced. we lived in a townhouse, that wasnt really in the best neighborhood, but we had good neighbors and good friends around us so we were happy. when my father left she decided that she would have to go to work. she worked two jobs so that we could maintain our lifestyle and have just a few extras. she worked at ace hardware in thier floral section and was a designer/manager and she worked at a sears catalog pick up center in the evenings. she dated a few men as i was growing up, nothing terrible happened there.

this is where it gets bad...i dont know what happened to her, but she is not the person now that she was when i was little

there was a man that came in wanted a job as a delivery driver for the flowers. it was around valentines day so they hired him on a temp basis and he was working with her. before long i guess they were dating. he was living in his car! she got pregnant. they decided to keep the baby. he couldnt keep a job and still cant. he just doesnt go to work. you know how you will get up in the morning and really not feel like going, but you do anyway, not him. he has lost every job he has ever had he just layed around the house while my mother worked while she was pregnant. they got married, she says so that her child (my sister) wouldnt be without a father like me. i think that is BS, but whatever. he continued to not work. she got layed off.

when i was about 14 they smoked marijuana with me, bought me cigarettes, bought me alcahol. never prepared me for life. i never took my SATs because they never talked to me about scholarships or college or anything like that. somehow i managed to become a productive member of society in spite of them. i went to school at ITT which is very expensive. i had to get the student loans on my own because they have car repos and other bad credit so i got a terrible interest rate for having no cedit. when i graduated i didnt even get a card from them.

i basically feel that they were terrible parents. granted they didnt abuse me, but they gave me not guidance, no motivation, nothing.

they currently live in a hovel that is disgusting. they sit around all day, the both of them and do nothing. i dont think the house (which they are currently $3000 behind in rent) has been cleaned in years. they have two dogs that go to the bathroom all over and all they do is put a paper towel down on the piddle and walk on it for a couple hours then pick up the paper towel and throw it away. sometimes when my stepfather does work he has made a career from being a pizza delivery boy. this is how they make ends meet. a pizza boy! and she wont get off her butt and do anything either. i am embarassed that they are my parents. (i dont know where my real father is) i have no respect for them at all.

my point in telling you all this is that i am trying to sever ties with them. i dont really speak to them. i go and see them on christmas because she begs me to. i think the only reason that i havent completely cut them out of my life is because of my sister. i feel so sorry for her. if i had the money i would have her come live with me, but i simply cant afford it and i dont have a bedroom for her to sleep in. once she is on her own i will probably cut them out completey. im sure that it will be hard for them because they are too ignorant to realize, but they are an emotional drain on me and i will not allow them to be a financial drain on me too when they are older.

thats my story. its not the worst its not the best, but its mine.

 

[Kaleigh]

Ok will try to take a stab at this.

I did cut my parents out for the most part once DD was born. I couldn't have her around people that are toxic. They didn't respect my boundaries, and I lived a life of abuse as a child. As did my brother who is no longer with us.

I was hoping once my DD was born that my Mom would come around and be that person in my life that I was lacking. It didn't happen.


Then after DS was born, no interest, just pure selfishess.

Dad on the other hand wanted to have contact, and tried very hard to get back in my life.

I am like a book, once closed, the chapter, the story is over. Or once in jail, you don't get a commuted sentence.

THat comes from a lot of hurt.

I have been a caregiver most of my adult life. Spent over 17 years caring from Mom's parents my beloved granparents.

Now I am taking care of my parents.

Taking care of those that hurt me so badly, is a very hard pill to swallow.

BUT I did forgive ages ago, and there is no one else to do this. I have made ammends with my Dad. We have a great friendship.

I see him as living a life of quiet desperation, and that kills me. But he's no saint, but oh well I fogave and that's that.

Mom is just sooooo negative, passive agressive, jealous and mean... I do what I can to care for her, but I try to be like teflon and let her comments roll off me.

I hope what I wrote is helpful.
I did start the whole process with a letter explaining my thoughts and boundaries. That was never accepted, so just cut off all contact etc...

You have to do what is right for you of course. I am sorry you are in this position. I send you a big HUG.

Seeing a counselor can help as well. In the earlier years, it helped me a lot. Now I just go with my gut. LOL!!!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I've cut quite a few members of family out of my life (unfortunetly) and yes one was a parent = my mom.

The decision wasn't difficult for me because I felt she was emotionally & mentally abusive to me and I didn't want to be a victim of hers (and once I was an adult, I had the power to take control over my life and no longer was reliant on her for financial support). Our relationship tapered off slowly after HS, and now, I haven't seen her in over 10 years and haven't talked to her in around 8 years (though she sent me bizarre letters about five years back).

I didn't disappear, just her and I quit talking and she moved to Europe and since I've moved so many times and she moved too, neither of us have current addresses. I quite responding to the other relatives who kept bugging me to contact my mom.

I haven't regretted my choice. I'm not even sure if she's still alive.

Maybe I sound cold about my decision, but it was the one I had to make. My mom was HUGE on guilt. Made me feel guilty about everything that went wrong in her life. I couldn't take the BS.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I''ll share...but it might get long...

For me, this was my half-sister. She was my fathers daughter from his first marriage. For the sake of this story, we''ll call her H.

H had a tough childhood. My dad was always wonderful to her, but outside circumstances really effected her. When H was 5 her parents divorced, and her mother got into a rough relationship with a man she would eventually marry and H hated him. H depended on her sister Amy, who was also my dad''s daughter from his first marriage. When H was 5, Amy was killed in a fire. On top of the already final divorce, the death of her sister messed her up.

H was in and out of therapy for years, none of which worked because she lied to her therapist.. She played my dad and her mom against each other. She isolated my mom, me and my sister by telling lies to her mother about us and the way she was treated. Meanwhile my parents still bent over backwards to make her happy. They moved to a bigger house when she said she wanted to live with us--only to go back on that after my parents closed on the house. She ran up credit cards--which my dad paid. She gave her boyfriend the car my dad bought for her--and demanded he buy her another. My dad bought her a condo on Michigan Avenue after college, so that H and I could live together--but before I moved in, she ended up letting her other sister (Mothers'' daughter with 2nd husband) move in.

Outside of the things she did to my parents, she hurt me over the years with her actions too. She even told my parents that I was having sex, after I confided in her and she promised not. She put me in uncomfortable positions by asking me if my dad cheated on my mom when she was sick with cancer (I was 16 when she asked). She would forget my birthday, lie to my little sister about sending her gifts. Little things.

Over the years, it built up. I grew hostile towards her...seeing her hurt my dad, my mom, my little sister, it took a toll. I hated her.

It all came to a head the year H turned 30. H got engaged. Because of the difficult relationship my dad had with H''s mom, but still wanting to help with her wedding, he wrote her a very generous check ($30,000). H was thrilled and thanked him...then went home to talk to her mom. H''s mom said she wanted no part in planning H''s wedding (???) and said she should have my mom plan the wedding. So...H came back to my parents...my mom told H to rip up the check and they would plan her dream wedding. H did.

My mom got started planning...put deposits on all the things H wanted...but over time, it became obvious that my mom was just writing the checks but really H and her mom were pulling the strings. My mom wasn''t allowed to see the dress, the hall, nothing. My Mom eventually said "enough" when it came to the flowers...the only part H''s mom and step dad had agreed to pay for. It turned out that when they said they would pay for the centerpieces, they ment they would rent the vases. My mom was pissed. Meanwhile, H was leaving for a work assignment for 3 weeks. My parents told H to go off to work, and when she came back they would sit down and discuss things.

3 weeks went by. H never called my parents, and never came by. They waited, and waited...nothing. Eventually H called my dad to meet for lunch. They met. H told my dad that we were no longer invited to wedding--that her mom and step dad were paying for everything (but could she keep the deposits my parents paid???). She didn''t even put his name on the invite, nor her maiden name...she acknowledged her mom and step dad as her parents.

It broke my Dad''s heart. Seriously. He had lost one daughter early in life, and loved H despite her short-comings, and had always taken his job as a father very seriously. He was never so much as late with a child support payment--which he continued until she graduated college. He gave her anything she ever wanted or needed, bar none. He loved her, cared for her, did back bends for her. He was her dad, and yet on the one day you acknowledge the importance of your parents and honor them--he was basically disowned. I''ve never, ever in my whole life seen my Dad so hurt. It made me ache with anger...it''s like nothing I''d ever felt before.

So, I wrote H a letter. I basically told her I thought she was an utter piece of s*** and that she was no longer welcome within our family. I told my dad that she was stunted, and that he needed to save himself. I told him he was a wonderful father...and good man...and he deserved to put love and energy into those willing to receive it. He understood, for the first time, what the rest of us understood years ago...H is toxic. And since then, he has never spoke to her.

Two weeks before my wedding H e-mailed my dad, talking about my wedding (how she knew is beyond any of us)...and he asked her what she wanted...it wasn''t a loving, friendly, father-like e-mail...it was to the point. She never e-mailed again.

All and all, when someone is toxic, you know. If you live your life genuinely, then you have no room for that. My only advice for you is do what is in the best interest of your sanity, and your family. That is what we did, and we''re much happier for it.

 

[luckystar112]

Beau, wow your mom sounds a lot like mine! My mom also suffers from very severe mood swings. You just never know with her! I know you made the best decision for you and your kids and I can see how it would make the decision easier. I don''t know if I would feel relieved when my mom passes, but I know that I panic at the thought of possibly having to give a speech at the funeral. I know that sounds awful.

Wow Radiant--your story is very inspiring. I too feel as though I have made it a lot further in life than I was "destined" to with the hand I was dealt. My father has only recently become a significant part of my life. He and my mother split up when I was 7. I can see how it would be hard to break off all contact when you''re so worried about your sister. I am an only child, thank goodness, but at the same time it has a way of making you feel worse because you feel like if you are not there, no one will be.

Kaleigh, I am also like a book. It took me a long time to get that way. I used to always want to hang on to the past but now I just close chapters and move on. Attachment isn''t something that comes easily to me anymore. How did you end up being the one to care for your parents? Did you take on the responsibility yourself? I agree I should definitely see a counselor. I NEED to.
Something that is so ironic to me is that my deadbeat father had less of an impact on my self-esteem/development than my mother--who was there for me my whole life.

I will share.

I started this post because I witnessed my mother reach a new low today--one that actually surprised me, despite being practically numb to her ways.
Long story somewhat short--my stepfather asked her for a divorce a couple of months ago. He just could not take my mother anymore, and unlike me, he doesn''t "have" to. When my mother told me I felt sad for her because I know that she loves him a lot. At the same time, he was DONE with her and I was relieved for him.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago, and my mother finds out that he has started to see a new woman. My mother reacted with anger and said a lot of disgusting things about my stepfather--which I guess I can understand. This woman has a long history in my mother''s life (my father actually cheated on my mother with her when I was just a baby) so I''m sure that REALLY fueled things. Also, the woman is just kind of gross--I will admit.
With all of that being said, the woman''s kids were shot and killed last night. She had two sons, 18 and 21 and it was a simple fight that just went really really bad. Shootings don''t just happen where I''m from.
I logged in to facebook this morning and saw that my mother updated her status to say "Karma''s a real B!tch!"

I was just beyond myself. So digusted beyond belief. So EMBARRASSED for her. This woman just lost her two sons--it doesn''t matter how "dirty" she is! What is so sick about it to me is that I have no doubt my mother meant it and that she got satisfaction from the murders.

I just don''t feel like I want to be associated with her anymore--in any way. I sent her a message to ask her how on earth she could say something like that and she pretended that''s not what she meant. She said that it says a lot about ME to think that is what she was saying. What she didn''t know is that I talked to my cousin earlier in the day (who used to babysit the two boys who were killed) and she told me that my mother called her and said the same thing: "Karma is a b!tch" and "You better not go to the funeral!".
As if that wasn''t bad enough--my mother works at the hostpital in the ICU unit so she probably saw those boys arrive and was probably one of the first to know they died. With that being said, I have no idea if she was at work last night, but she posted that message at 5:30 AM so I don''t know why she would be up that early unless she was back from work or just about to leave FOR work.

I''ve just reached my limit with her. My extended family wrote her off a long time ago. When my aunt got divorced, she told everyone in the family that she deserved it. When my grandmother got sick, she complained when my grandmother got sick in her sink (when my mother wasn''t looking my grandmother BEGGED my cousin to get her away from my mother). When my uncle got lung cancer, my mother was there to tell everyone that "that''s what he gets for smoking a pack a day". When I was planning my wedding and didn''t agree with her on something, she threatened to call DH''s parents to tell them what a "little slut" I am. I mean....she''s nuts.

At the same time, as soon as anything happens she nominates herself into the leader role. The uncle who deserved lung cancer--she drove him to and from his appointments. Someone is crying about something--my mom lends and ear and then talks about them behind their back. My mother talks like she can''t STAND any of us and then wants to be there at our worst. She gets satisfaction out of hurt...out of divorce...out of sickness...and now out of death.
I reached the point a long time ago where I stopped enabling her. If she starts up on someone in the family, I get off the phone. She will say the most disgusting things about people to prove her point. Describing her step-daughter''s "monthly" bathroom habits to a group full of strangers--letting everyone know what a terrible lovemaker my step-father was....

She is foul. A true embarrassment.

At the same time I feel guilty because I am her only child and she is now all alone. Her husband left, family left, etc. I guess this will be a lot easier than I thought though, because as I was writing this my cousin called to tell me that my mother said she doesn''t want me to be a part of her life anymore.

Should I be relieved?

Sorry for the long post----I really have no one to talk to about her. My DH wrote her off a long time ago and thinks it''s ridiculous that I even stress about her. I think through the course of typing this out I''ve figured out what I need to do--and that is to let her self-destruct and look out for myself.

Thank you everyone.

 

[rainwood]

LuckyStar -

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through all this. Even though it''s the right decision, it is still heartbreaking because she''s your mom - the one person you hope would be there for you in life and she isn''t. But you are doing the right thing for you and even for your mother. Her only chance to get better is to realize that she''s driven everyone away, including you, and want to do something about it.

 

[packrat]

Ohhh..my heart goes out to those of you who have had to go thru this. Family is so important. I can''t imagine as a daughter/Mom/sister, being so angry and hateful towards my Mom/kids/brother and forcing their hand to not want anything to do with me, knowing full well what I''d be missing out on in their lives. Being away from the toxic person is for the best, and I''m sure it''s incredibly hard, but I''m glad you all stood up (are standing up) for yourselves (and kids) and not subjecting yourselves to it.

And the poor woman who lost her 2 kids, I can''t imagine what she''s going thru!

 

[cara]

Oh, lucky. How sad.

I will just parrot the standard line the therapist''s give you, which is to set boundaries and back away slowly reducing contact until its at a tolerable level. If talking on the phone twice a year still hurts, then reduce to once a year, etc. The idea being that its a less drastic decision that causes less second and guilty thoughts in YOU then a complete break. But if even the minimal contact still causes pain, then you are in a better position to cut the cord with no regrets having tried a minimal contact plan.

Having read the horrifying details of your mother''s behavior, maybe you are at the end of the process. But in case you aren''t, maybe a single phone call each holiday season is the level of contact you are interested in.

I will say I haven''t followed this plan myself, but I''m also not really at peace with my actions yet in regards to my father. Haven''t spoken to him in about a year. I don''t see it as a permanent break, as he is not usually anywhere near as bad as your mother or beau''s or some of the other family members described here. Its just that the difficult, irrational, verbally abusive portion of his personality grew larger following my parent''s divorce and what I once could tolerate as a small component of his personality became intolerable to me. Of course, now that I am grown, a break is an option where growing up appeasement was a safer strategy.

I *wish* I had gone to a therapist earlier because it might not have gotten so bad, or at least my tolerance would not be so depleted perhaps, but by the time I went I was really hurt and just done faking it and being hurt by him. I''m not ready to pretend that I am OK with things he has said to me or done and I''m not ready to have to tolerate any more verbal attacks from him. The therapist has said a thousand times that he woln''t change, that I just have to accept him as he is and change how I interact with him and also use techniques to minimize his hurtful behavior and their impact on me. While I think the techniques that she recommends will be more effective than what I used in the past (asking him to stop), it will basically involve evading and tolerating more hurtful comments and behavior from him and I am just not ready for more abuse. I am also not ready to go back to appeasing him - that''s probably really the sticking point. I just feel I''ve done enough appeasing, it was how I got through childhood, and I don''t want to anymore. Thus I am stuck in a holding pattern...

 

[diamondgirl5k]

LuckyStar -
I''m sorry for you and I can COMPLETELY relate to what you are going through. My mother is a compl etely toxic person, but she is also an alcoholic who has no desire to help herself. She is completely selfish, jealous, self centered, pathological liar. I''ll give you a few examples..

1-she told me that she wouldnt come to my wedding 1 week before because she didn''t want to get announced w/ my grandmother into the reception (her mother, who has done nothing but try to help her, for whatever reason she hated her that week)
2-she got engaged to some guy she knew for a few months 2 weeks after i got engaged, coincidence? It''s not surprising it didn''t work out
3-she pretty much abandoned my brother and i when she met a guy she could move in with (who she thought could take care of her). No phone calls, wouldn''t tell us where she was, shes a real gem
4-i lent her 15k to pay off a LOAN SHARK that she borrowed money from to purchase her house.. not only did she let the house go into foreclosure, i have seen 4k of that money. She quit her great paying job with no job on the horizon, and could care less, all the while knowing that my husband and I are in debt with school loans, and are trying to save money. She just doesnt care.

I''ve been to therapy for months, and the ENTIRE time the session is always about her.. always.. and my therapist thinks it would be best for me to just cut her out.. but I just can''t.. she just creeps back in.. i go months without speaking to her and i start to feel bad, and she suddenly calls like everything is fine, and it''s not of course, but that''s her way..

My advice to you is to go on with your life, and try to just accept her for who she is, and the situation for what it is, even if it is a shi*ty situation. Try to make the best out of your marriage and family that you have, and don''t give her too much power. She''ll come around when it''s convenient for her. I wouldn''t feel bad for her, when she''s all alone, it''ll give her some time to reflect on how SHE treats others and maybe it''ll give her some insight into her own ways.

I hope you feel better..

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Luckystar...I cannot imagine, just simply cannot imagine, how you are able to even speak about this. I am so sorry.

I think that it''s time. I think it''s time you realize there are people that are simply lost causes. Your mother sounds like she may be one. I think you need to distance yourself from her because you''re nothing like her--and her issues are weighing you down. I firmly believe in surrounding oneself with goodness...be it in family, friends, work, whatever. Clearly you know that she''s an unhealthy influence over your life, her presence is bringing you down. It''s okay to feel the pull of responsibility--but sometimes you have to know that even blood can''t bind you forever. Sometimes you have to take a step back and ask yourself "what is this person bringing, what is this person taking?" ...usually those answers are a good guide for your next step.

What she said about those boys...well, it''s venom...and she''s right, karma is a bitch...but it works both forward and in reverse. Hate is hate. She is alone. Her attitude distroyed her relationships with the people she loved...it poisioned her life. Worse yet, she doesn''t see that. In many ways, she reminds me of a "Mommy Dearest". Her need to help, like driving your uncle to his appointments, its not done from a root of kindness...it''s done to maintain control--like, without her he''d be lost. She knows she cannot draw people in with love, so she draws them in with fear and control. Let her fail.

Lucky, you''re a good person--just the simple fact that you''re so broken over this lets us all know it''s not just simply a matter of what''s easiest...but a matter of what is right. I hope you find peace. I really, really do

.

 

[princesss]

Lucky, honey, I hope I''m not intruding as I don''t have anything really to contribute, other than a *hug* and that I''m terribly sorry you''re having to face this decision. Whatever you choose - as long as it is right for you - will be okay.

 

[princessplease]

Lucky, I am so incredibly sorry you are dealing with this. I applaud you for *considering* the decision to cut her out of your life. I don''t have the courage to consider cutting mom out of my life. I guess I always expect her to change, but they only thing I can expect is nothing from her. There were a lot of things in my youthhood that burned me, and I thought she would change when I grew up, but she hasn''t. It''s all becoming as clear as day with all of the wedding planning as well. I wish you all the best (along with everyone else who is hurting from making this tough decision) in whatever you decide to do. ::HUGS::

 

[iheartscience]

Oh lucky, I''m so sorry to hear about this. I know you''ve mentioned your mother''s awful behavior before, but I am just shocked reading this.

I have no useful advice, but I do hope that whatever you decide, it will bring you some sort of closure or peace. Whether that''s limited contact, no contact, a break, whatever. Do what''s best for *you* and don''t worry about her since she''s clearly made her own bed.

I''m not usually one for internet hugs, but...*hugs* to you.

 

[luckystar112]

ETA: I realized that this post came out extremely angry. I guess I am angry! I am sick of feeling like I'm being baited. I know what she says about me behind my back and I think "Why bother?". And seeing what she said today, well....there is just no excuse. At the same time I feel a lot of sadness about what our relationship is NOT and a lot of guilt about what COULD HAVE been if I cut her off. Definitely confusing.

MC: My mom is huge on guilt to. If I had a nickel everytime she tried to manipulate me with anger, crying, or doing something completely sweet with an ulterior motive I would be a millioinaire! You don't feel like if she passes you will feel guilty that you didn't give her one last chance to make it right? I think I struggle with that the most.

Rainwood: Thank you. I just wish it was an easier decision! You'd think it would be so simple because we already live 2000 miles away from eachother. I absolutely agree that she needs to hit rock bottom and lose everything before she is able to see her ways. Unfortunately it looks like she has moved on from me to my cousin. My cousin agrees with me though, so who knows how long she'll be able to handle it.

Packrat: I WISH I had a normal relationship with my mother. I get so jealous of girls that talk about how their moms are their best friends. Brunches together, shopping, talking on the phone.....you just can't do that with my mother. She is so negative and manipulating. It's always all about her.

Cara: That is how I feel too---stuck. I think reducing contact could work. It's hard these days with so many ways to contact someone. If she can't get in touch with me on the phone then she'll probably call DH, if that doesn't work perhaps she'll search for me on facebook or have my cousin call me, or email a friend. She's exhausing.

diamondgirl5k: Yup! That sounds about right! I can get in a fight with my mother, ignore her for a couple of months, and then I feel a huge pang of guilt when I see she's tried to contact me. My mom doesn't have any substance abuse problems--she's just crazy. But the ironic thing is that my father's side of the family is full of alcoholics and I consider them more sane than her!

Italia: BOY did you hit the nail on the head. You described my mother perfectly--right down to the mommy dearest! Believe it or not, she actually signs her cards with "mommy dearest" because she thinks it's funny. I cannot believe how accurate you were with your description. You are absolutely right that she loves control. I have a cousin who has been in trouble with the law his whole life, and my mother won't let my aunt forget it. When he had to be rushed to the hospital, guess who was there everyday taking care of him? My mother. As soon as he's back on the street she goes back to reminding my aunt of what a loser he is. She is a disgrace.

Princess and princessplease, thank you for your well wishes! It means a lot.


What is odd to me is that I have no idea when this started with my mother. My grandmother and aunts have said that she has been like this "forever", but I guess I was just oblivious to it because it's all I ever knew. I know that when I was in high school I was never home--ever. I stayed at a different friend's house almost every night except for the nights my mother was working. After one of our more serious fights I decided to move to TX with my friend. 12 days after high school I was GONE. Now I would give anything to move back to Maine, but I will admit that the fact that my mother is there has made DH and me nervous about the decision. I would hate for her to feel like she could just come knock on the door or something.

And then I think about how much she would try to manipulate me if I cut her off. I went back to Maine for a brief period when I was 19. She and I got in a huge fight and I vowed to never talk to her again. Unfortunately, I got an abnormal result from a woman's exam I had and they called my mother to let me know. What does she do? Tells me I have cancer and convinces me to go back home with her.
There was also a point in high school where I completely moved out for a few months. Again, broke off all contact. Then my great grandmother died and we ended up making up that way. Her favorite ways to try and manipulate me are by crying--she loves to tell me that I don't love her. She loves to make me feel guilty by crying and saying things like "I know I'm the reason you moved away!". She loves to use big events: "Your grandmother just died". She loves to wait a long time and then send a long letter about how much she loves me and misses me. I fall for all of them every single time.

This time I think I may tell her that I don't plan on resuming contact with her until she has physical proof that she has been evaluated by a psyciatrist and has been given a plan to combat it. I've tried telling her a MILLION times in nice and not-so-nice ways that I think she needs help. The most recent time was right after my step-father announced he wanted a divorce. She never denied that it was her fault he decided to leave. It seemed like things were going to look up with her because she fully admitted that she has problems with rage and she is pushing everyone away. She said she was going to go to a counselor that her work provides for free and try to work on herself. Well, she went a couple of times and that counselor supposedly told her that it wasn't HER--it was all of US. WE treat HER poorly and do not consider her feelings. My step-father was passive agressive and she shouldn't feel bad for the divorce because HE didn't know how to communicate and SHE was better off.
I mean, it was a total joke. I WITNESSED the way my mother treated my step-father. Spitting on the floor--locking him out, tearing up presents, pretending to pack her bags, screaming. PLEASE. I don't know if the counselor really said those things or if my mother made them up.

I think that my mother has an antisocial personality disorder. She fits the profile to a T.

Glibness and superficial charm? CHECK
Manipulative? CHECK
Feels entitled to certain things as her right? CHECK
Pathological liar? CHECK (you have NO idea)
Incapable of remorse? CHECK
Experiences a deep seated rage? CHECK
Warmth, joy, love and compassion serves as an ulterior motive? CHECK
Lack of empathy/callousness? CHECK
Alternates rage and abuse with small expressions of love and approval? CHECK!!! TRIPLE CHECK!!!!
No concern for their impact on others? CHECK!
Little to no friends/problems keeping friends? CHECK!
Promiscuous/delinquent/irresponsible? No...she's normal there.

I do fear that if I cut off contact with her something will happen in life and I'll be sucked back into her web again. At the same time, I am so terrified that something will happen to HER and I will experience extreme guilt for the rest of my life. What if she tries to contact me, I blow her off, and then she dies?
Do you think that in order to cut someone off you have to be 100% indifferent to those types of things?

 

[decodelighted]

Oof. You realize personality disorders don''t have a *cure*, right? I was going to suggest emotional separation as a preliminary step to cutting off all contact but from your last post it seems like maybe you''ve done that already.

SORRY! It sucks. I have a very good idea of what you''re going through. VERY good. But I haven''t cut off contact with my "person" ... yet. Been tempted. Oh so tempted. But years of therapy have helped me deal with it and set firm boundries and not get sucked in over & over -- but keep things at kind of a steady (even bemused) detachment. Not sure if that''ll work forever but I''m sticking w/it for now.

GOOD LUCK! ** Hug **

 

[cara]

Dear, dear lucky. I feel for you. This is exactly how I feel about my father: if he would only get help and change, maybe by going to a psychologist to talk about all the ways in which he has acted wrong and how he should act better in the future, I will accept him and we can have a good relationship in the future. My therapist can confirm that he is definitely abnormal mentally and maybe has X,Y,Z psychological conditions and wouldn't it be great if he would seek treatment (after I convince him to) and see the error of his ways and as an added bonus he would apologize - a real apology, not a fake one apologizing for my reaction - and then we could have a good relationship???

No. No. No. Bad thinking. Bad thinking on my part, not great thinking on your part.

Please, go see a therapist for *yourself*. You need boundary setting and counseling about reducing contact without guilt. Also about not changing others. You can expect less of her, contact her less, be less swayed by her manipulations and less of a target for her behavior by providing less of that feedback she seeks, but you cannot change her. Your mother may have antisocial personality disorder, but I think the personality disorders are fairly difficult to treat. And it doesn't matter if she has something treatable if she's not interested in getting treated. If she's been this way her whole life, her wanting to change her *personality* is unlikely. Please you go to a therapist. Keeping her in your life unchecked will drive you bonkers and possibly not assuage your guilt and cutting her our totally now may make you also feel guilty unless you get some counseling to make peace with your decision. Or counseling will give you methods for dealing with her and managing your interactions with less guilt, if possible and if that's what you want.

 

[luckystar112]

Man, I know I just wrote the hugest novel up above, but I just wanted to add one more thing.

My biggest fear is becoming my mother. With that being said, when I found out that my step-father asked her for a divorce I felt relieved for him. Sad for my mother (she really, REALLY loved him despite her craziness), but so happy that he wasn''t going to be her doormat anymore. I completely blame my mother for the divorce--I know without a doubt that my step-father did everything he could.
At the same time when I EXPRESS this feeling to DH (that my mother in some way was asking for it), I feel NO BETTER THAN HER. It reminds me of when my uncle had an affair and my mom said my aunt deserved it.
This revelation, that I may not be any better than my mother in that sense, is really messing with my psyche.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 6/30/2009 11:27:31 PM
Author: luckystar112
My biggest fear is becoming my mother. ..... This revelation, that I may not be any better than my mother in that sense, is really messing with my psyche.

Ditto. Here''s the difference: you don''t want to be that way. You are willing to get help for yourself. She''s not. CLEAR difference. Get crackin''.

 

[luckystar112]

You''re absolutely right, Cara. I need to do this for myself. Time to get on my school''s health insurance! Man what I wouldn''t give for the confirmation that it''s not all in my head though. I do think, especially considering my last post about my psyche, that talking to someone would do more good for me than waiting....and waiting.....and waiting for her to do it herself.

She was RIGHT there though. So close.

I really felt like she had hit rock bottom when she found out about the divorce and was starting to analyze her behavior. I guess it was wishful thinking.

 

[House Cat]

Lucky,

I was actually going to ask if you''ve read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder. There''s a lot of info about growing up with a Narcissistic mother, etc on the net. I''m not sure if I''m allowed to provide links or not on this forum, but simple google search on "narcissistic mother" will point you in one direction. The very first article is definitely worth reading. Reading up on the disorder itself and dealing with this personality will help too.

Btw, I''m not a therapist, but a lot of what you have described sounds really familiar.

This isn''t an easy decision. To be sure, you might want to run all of this by a therapist, so that you can feel resolved in your decision.

Do take care...

 

[Kaleigh]

I understnd the fear of becoming your Mother, but thing is... You won't Period. You see what is wrong, have ID'd what is wrong and certainly won't allow it to repeat itself in you. I worried about the same thing.

But made a promise to myself when I was 10 , the age where I knew what was happening to me was wrong. I promised myself then that all my kids would know is love and acceptance. Unconditional love...

 

[TravelingGal]

Lucky, I read all your posts and I am so sorry. I have no words of help or advice, but do feel very much for you as I can''t imagine how a mother could be like this. But I know many are.

 

[hlmr]

Lucky, I am sorry that your mother has caused you so much pain. The mother/daughter relationship is already so powerful, but when it's toxic, it can take a terrible toll. I wish you lots of strength for whatever you choose to do.

 

[zhuzhu]

Lucky,
I am so sorry to hear about the kind of pain your mom has put you through. I don''t have any advice to give. I just want to give you my support, and to wish you the strength to make the best decision in this difficult situation.
Zhuzhu

 

[VRBeauty]

Lucky -- it was so painful to read your history with your mother (and everyone else's with their mother or father). I don't have any special insight into such extreme and hateful behaviors. I established boundaries vis a vis my mother rather late in life (starting in my early 30's or so) because my mother was very controlling and very good at laying on guilt trips. Part of it comes from both of my parents being old school in how they were raised, and that neither had to go through the process of separating from their parents as they became adults -- life took care of that for them.

Anyhow, I'm going to suggest an option that might have you questioning my sanity -- alanon or adult children of alcoholics meetings. My parents are not alcoholics; their "ism" if anything was religiosity. But Alanon helped me stand up for myself, separate myself from the guilt trips, learn to say "no." I dealt also dealt with depression growing up, and alanon helped me get to a place where, for the first time, therapy was helpful. Neither group will ask you to prove that your parents were alcoholics; the fact that you want their help (and grew up in a wildly disfunctional family) will be enough. Anyhow, it's an alternative for you to consider as you figure out how protect yourself from this insanity.

BTW shopping trips and long lunches with my mom really aren't in the cards for me either. It's too taxing for me -- I can't be really open around her because I'm afraid that she'll take anything she perceives as a reason for concern in my life and use it as an excuse to worry, maintain constant contact, and basically insinuate herself into my life. But that's a far cry from what you're facing. I hope you'll soon find a solution for your situation with your mother that you can be at peace with.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 6/30/2009 11:27:31 PM
Author: luckystar112
Man, I know I just wrote the hugest novel up above, but I just wanted to add one more thing.

My biggest fear is becoming my mother. With that being said, when I found out that my step-father asked her for a divorce I felt relieved for him. Sad for my mother (she really, REALLY loved him despite her craziness), but so happy that he wasn't going to be her doormat anymore. I completely blame my mother for the divorce--I know without a doubt that my step-father did everything he could.
At the same time when I EXPRESS this feeling to DH (that my mother in some way was asking for it), I feel NO BETTER THAN HER. It reminds me of when my uncle had an affair and my mom said my aunt deserved it.
This revelation, that I may not be any better than my mother in that sense, is really messing with my psyche.

Lucky, there is a big, huge, vast difference between voicing your opinion...and how your mother handles other peoples disappointment. You're not happy she's alone--but can understand why. Your feelings about this divorce aren't based on selffish reasons--they are based on fact. You're not on the phone telling her she "deserved it"--you're simply saying it is what's best for your step father. See the difference? I know I do. Sometimes our natural feelings can't be avoided...you organically feel like she didn't deserve him anymore...and there is nothing malicious about that.

Life is full of choices. You can choose to be the same, or you can choose be different. To me, it seems you've chosen a different path...I cannot imagine you ever gloating over the death of someone's loved ones--regardless of your personal opinion of them. It's no secret that some things are our simply our nature...others are nuture. I can understand your fears because she is your mom...how can you not take parts of her with you. So, that's where choice comes in. You might have to work harder if you see yourself slipping into a pattern similar to hers, but you're not damned to becoming jaded and bitter.

Your mom has issues. These are things that probably, early on, could have been sorted out on a therapists couch...but she's way past that stage now. She made a choice early on as to how she wanted to be...and there is a slim to none chance that she'll ever really change. You can't love her enough to change her...but you can spare yourself the pain of trying.

((hugs))

 

[nycbkgirl]

Date: 6/30/2009 7:07:20 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Ok will try to take a stab at this.

I did cut my parents out for the most part once DD was born. I couldn''t have her around people that are toxic. They didn''t respect my boundaries, and I lived a life of abuse as a child. As did my brother who is no longer with us.

I was hoping once my DD was born that my Mom would come around and be that person in my life that I was lacking. It didn''t happen.


Then after DS was born, no interest, just pure selfishess.

Dad on the other hand wanted to have contact, and tried very hard to get back in my life.

I am like a book, once closed, the chapter, the story is over. Or once in jail, you don''t get a commuted sentence.

THat comes from a lot of hurt.

I have been a caregiver most of my adult life. Spent over 17 years caring from Mom''s parents my beloved granparents.

Now I am taking care of my parents.

Taking care of those that hurt me so badly, is a very hard pill to swallow.

BUT I did forgive ages ago, and there is no one else to do this. I have made ammends with my Dad. We have a great friendship.

I see him as living a life of quiet desperation, and that kills me. But he''s no saint, but oh well I fogave and that''s that.

Mom is just sooooo negative, passive agressive, jealous and mean... I do what I can to care for her, but I try to be like teflon and let her comments roll off me.

I hope what I wrote is helpful.
I did start the whole process with a letter explaining my thoughts and boundaries. That was never accepted, so just cut off all contact etc...

You have to do what is right for you of course. I am sorry you are in this position. I send you a big HUG.

Seeing a counselor can help as well. In the earlier years, it helped me a lot. Now I just go with my gut. LOL!!!

just wanted to say...u took the words right out of my mouth KALEIGH...thats about MIL and their whole fam....dh and i cut them out for 2 yrs!...i mean everyone!and we lived a happy peaceful life...we let them back in when the kids were born...and MIL is helping a lot but lets see what plays out from here....its only been 3 months and im just waiting for them to F up!

i always said just bc ur blood related doesnt make u family and doesnt give u a RIGHT to someone...its a privilege not a right to be a parent ...ur son/daughter doesnt have to be there if u are toxic to their life!...its a long painful story for me with them but hey maybe ppl change

--(dont>

 

[lyra]

I don''t want to go into detail about why I cut my sister out of my life, but it was a horrific situation. Here is what I did:

1. Talked to my therapist about it. He told me it was perfectly acceptable to cut a family member out of my life and that it was a positive thing to do.

2. Did not tell my sister, just stopped speaking to her.

3. Immediately had my phone number set to extreme privacy meaning people who called would be screened before even having the phone ring. I couldn''t change our number because of my husband''s job and connections, but this worked wonders. Had it this way for at least 6 months. (I wish I still had it actually, although it made it a bit harder for other family to get a hold of us).

4. When we moved, I didn''t give anyone in my family my new address. They don''t have the info, so they can''t pass it on. Sounds extreme, but she did extreme things. Criminal things. They have my phone number and email if they need it. We don''t live anywhere close anyway.

Good luck with this. I completely agree that this step is necessary. My sister has mental issues but is high functioning and fools everyone around her, but is truly remorseless inside. I have had a much more peaceful life since cutting her out. I don''t even know how long it''s been. Maybe 9 years, the time flies and you get used to the whole thing quite quickly if you can manage to have zero contact. Take care. I know this is very hard.