shape
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cutters

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by steve913, Dec 10, 2001.

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  1. steve913
    Rough_Rock

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    by steve913 » Dec 10, 2001
    hi everyone,

    I had a general question. About these brands like 8*, superbcert, ACA, are they supposed to be the best cut diamonds in the world? and I was wondering if there are only a handful of these expert cutters who cut most of the high end diamonds.. because i was also wondering who cuts diamonds for stores like Tiffany and Cartier. Do these cutters know each other also?

    thanks,
     
    


    


  2. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

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    by pricescope » Dec 10, 2001
    I would use the terms "consistently", "precisely", or "carefully"". What is "the best" is a matter of the personal taste :lickout:

    There are several suppliers of super ideal H&A diamonds including those you mentioned above. Some of them have branded products (e.g. Lasar Kaplan, Hearts on Fire, Hearts of Eternity, etc, etc.), other - don't.

    If I'm not mistaken A Cut Above diamonds were the first H&A branded diamonds sold over the internet. Other brands like EightStar don't sell via the net but will direct you to the authorized dealer in your area.

    A cutter should use a sawable rough to get a good yield when cutting to Tolkowsky proportions. Meanwhile, majority of the diamonds are cut poorly for weight retention from any rough using robotic equipment.

    As for Tiffany and Cartier, I'm not sure that all their diamonds have ideal proportions.
     
  3. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Dec 11, 2001
    Tiffany buy from many good and nearly good cutters, but they use an AGS type flawed grading standard.
    One is Hertz Hassenfield from NYC who is a good bloke.
    I have not seen a well cut cartier diamond yet.
     
  4. steve913
    Rough_Rock

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    by steve913 » Dec 11, 2001
    so generally speaking, when I buy one of those superideal H&A's on the Internet, i'm getting a more precise and even 'better cut' than some places like Tiffany? or are they about equal? just wanted to know I was getting one of the best :)
     
    


    


  5. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

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    by pricescope » Dec 11, 2001
    I truly believe that none of Tiffany diamond can match ACA, SuperbCert or EightStar in the cut precision. I don't even speak about price...

    So if you care more about cut quality than "blue package", then you might want to consider one of those brands.

    However, there are other cutters that cut beautiful (ideal and H&A) diamonds (branded as well as non-branded) and I don't want to push you towards any specific name or vendor. Do your own research and select the one that suite you best.
     
  6. StevL
    Brilliant_Rock
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    by StevL » Dec 13, 2001
    I believe Tiffany has Kaplan cut most of their diamonds. Diamonds at Tiffany I think range from AGS 0 cut grades down to AGS 2. They do carry very finely cut diamonds when grading by the AGS standards, there are optical standards that many today feel are much better. These standards in fact look at the light output of the diamond and not a external proportion or measurment.

    All of the H&A diamonds are very high end cuts, but the Eightstar is different and certainly the most consistant of the high end brands when measuring light return in the firescope.
     
  7. mustang
    Rough_Rock

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    by mustang » Oct 16, 2002
    I have visited Tiffany's, Cartier and local stores. Of course, the customer service in both Tiffany's and Cartier was great, but I actually liked the 4 prong setting at Cartier better. Not having the diamonds to compare, it is hard to say which one I liked better, but I would appreciate your describing the differences in cut between the two, and between them and say an 8 star or a H&A.

    After reading posts on this site, I'm beginning to think that I can do better if I look off of 5th avenue.

    Thanks
     
  8. biscuit
    Rough_Rock

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    by biscuit » Oct 17, 2002
    WOW! This thread's been resurrected from the dead!

    Hi Mustang -

    I'm a fellow New Yorker, but I'm temporarily stranded in Vancouver...not that it's a bad thing. Anyway, some thoughts about your post...

    I have never visited Tiffany's (I wasn't in the market for a diamond when I lived in the states) but have read numerous posts out here on the subject. If you do a quick search, you'll find posts from people who share my opinion (who have probably helped me form my opinion) and have actually visited the store.

    Let's do a thought experiment...Think of the diamond market as being like the jeans market...you've got the Butt Ugly Wal-Mart jeans ($15), the Levis Jeans($30), and the Guess Designer jeans ($70). Let's assume for argument's sake that the Levi's and the Guess jeans are equal quality (which is probably the case in real life - they both come from the same sweat shop). If you showed these jeans to different people without telling them who made them and asked them to pick out their favorite pair based on visual beauty + quality, chances are good that *at least* one person would pick the WalMart jeans. Why? Beauty is subjective, and can at times be prioritized over quality. Even sick and ugly dogs get taken home from the pound occaisionally, right?

    OK, well which pair would people pick the most? Hard to tell, but it'd probably be about even between the Levi's and Guess, especially if we assume their quality is equal.

    NOW, let's run the same experiment, but tell people the brand names and the asking price. Now, it's less likely that someone will pick the WalMart brand (let's assume that the people you picked for your experiment are all familiar with the brands and their perceived status). The person that loved the look of the WalMart pair will now be influenced by the name (which is good in this case, because their quality is lower than the other two pairs). It is also likely that significantly more people will pick the Guess jeans over the Levi's. Why? One is that Guess's perceived status is higher (although in reality, we've already said the quality is the same as Levi's), and two is that it is typically considered safe to assume that a higher price for goods means that they are higher quality goods. BUT, in the end, we the experimenters know that the Levis and the Guess are in truth of equal quality, AND that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    What does this mean? The name Tiffany's means something to some people, and it's a good thing it does because they're paying thousands of dollars for it. Rocks of the same cut quality can be found on the internet and in other stores for thousands of dollars less. If it's possible that people can swallow sugar pills and be cured of teminal illnesses, then it seems even more likely to me that the name Tiffany's makes their diamonds more beautiful to some people. Granted, those of us who aren't naive end up dying from the terminal illness, but at least we have the satisfaction of knowing we got the best deal that the market allows on our diamonds.

    Bottom line, read read read...check out the net, believe 2/3 of what's out here, and DON'T buy a Tiffany rock UNLESS it will mean a lot to your girlfriend. A couple thousand dollars worth of a lot.

    just my .02 worth (US, not Canadian...then it'd be my .013 worth)
     
  9. biscuit
    Rough_Rock

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    by biscuit » Oct 17, 2002
    WOW! This thread's been resurrected from the dead!

    Hi Mustang -

    I'm a fellow New Yorker, but I'm temporarily stranded in Vancouver...not that it's a bad thing. Anyway, some thoughts about your post...

    I have never visited Tiffany's (I wasn't in the market for a diamond when I lived in the states) but have read numerous posts out here on the subject. If you do a quick search, you'll find posts from people who share my opinion (who have probably helped me form my opinion) and have actually visited the store.

    Let's do a thought experiment...Think of the diamond market as being like the jeans market...you've got the Butt Ugly Wal-Mart jeans ($15), the Levis Jeans($30), and the Guess Designer jeans ($70). Let's assume for argument's sake that the Levi's and the Guess jeans are equal quality (which is probably the case in real life - they both come from the same sweat shop). If you showed these jeans to different people without telling them who made them and asked them to pick out their favorite pair based on visual beauty + quality, chances are good that *at least* one person would pick the WalMart jeans. Why? Beauty is subjective, and can at times be prioritized over quality. Even sick and ugly dogs get taken home from the pound occaisionally, right?

    OK, well which pair would people pick the most? Hard to tell, but it'd probably be about even between the Levi's and Guess, especially if we assume their quality is equal.

    NOW, let's run the same experiment, but tell people the brand names and the asking price. Now, it's less likely that someone will pick the WalMart brand (let's assume that the people you picked for your experiment are all familiar with the brands and their perceived status). The person that loved the look of the WalMart pair will now be influenced by the name (which is good in this case, because their quality is lower than the other two pairs). It is also likely that significantly more people will pick the Guess jeans over the Levi's. Why? One is that Guess's perceived status is higher (although in reality, we've already said the quality is the same as Levi's), and two is that it is typically considered safe to assume that a higher price for goods means that they are higher quality goods. BUT, in the end, we the experimenters know that the Levis and the Guess are in truth of equal quality, AND that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    What does this mean? The name Tiffany's means something to some people, and it's a good thing it does because they're paying thousands of dollars for it. Rocks of the same cut quality can be found on the internet and in other stores for thousands of dollars less. If it's possible that people can swallow sugar pills and be cured of teminal illnesses, then it seems even more likely to me that the name Tiffany's makes their diamonds more beautiful to some people. Granted, those of us who aren't naive end up dying from the terminal illness, but at least we have the satisfaction of knowing we got the best deal that the market allows on our diamonds.

    Bottom line, read read read...check out the net, believe 2/3 of what's out here, and DON'T buy a Tiffany rock UNLESS it will mean a lot to your girlfriend. A couple thousand dollars worth of a lot.

    just my .02 worth (US, not Canadian...then it'd be my .013 worth)
     
  10. biscuit
    Rough_Rock

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    by biscuit » Oct 17, 2002
    oops...sorry about the double post...

    I guess I didn't answer your questions...

    Mustang, if you look around you can find diamonds that are not Tiffany's, Cartier, 8star, or H&A and are more beautiful by most people's standards than any of the afformentioned brand names (granted, H&A is a type of symmetry and not a brand name, but it's not necessarily a requirement for a visually beautiful diamond). Think of all of them as the Guess Designer Jeans...it's our job as the consumer to find the Levi's. The above companies don't grade diamond cuts...external labs like AGS or GIA do...that's why it's important that diamonds be certified by a good lab. An AGS ideal cut sold at Tiffany's is being measured by the same standard as an AGS ideal cut sold on the web. Bear in mind, not *all* facets are measured by the certificate so nothing compares to a visual inspection.

    most important thing to bear in mind while shopping...have fun!

    biscuit
     
    


    


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