Cut is somewhat lost on me -- how about this for a compromise?

[jbernste]

I know this is heresy here and I mean no disrespect as I really value all the great information this forum has provided me. Having said that...

After viewing a bunch of stones, checking out the prices and specs of countless stones online, and talking with the good folks at Whiteflash, I''m fast approaching the conclusion that really ideal cut is somewhat lost on me. My eyes just don''t appreciate it. I can''t help but wonder if, by buying an ACA-type super-ideal stone, I''m paying for something I don''t value?

Having said this, I found this stone available through all the usual outlets:

1.75 H SI2

Its specs are as follows:

1.75 ct, H, SI2, AGS 0 - $9,693 on WF before the PS discount
7.71x7.75x4.82 mm
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Table: 55%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown: 35.1 (angle)
Pavillion: 41.1 (angle)
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

The AGS certificate wasn''t available online, but I had WF send it to me -- I can''t seem to attach it to this message because it''s a .pdf. The plot looks good; the inclusions appear to be widely scattered and mostly off the table.

The stone only scores a 3.2 on the HCA, which suggests only above-average performance. But so what? All indications are that, for the price, it''s a good value. Nice color, probably an eyeclean, nice SI2, with medium blue fluorescence with _should_ make it a very white-looking H color. Another stone might "perform" better as far as brilliance, fire and scintillation, but if I can''t appreciate the performance, I''m hard-pressed to pay more for it.

Anyone care to share his or her thoughts?

Again, many thanks.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Hi,

I'm not sure what to say in response other than I wonder if you think SHE'LL appreciate a better cut diamond? I know my husband could care less about how well a diamond sparkles and in fact, if I even bring up diamonds, he starts to zone off day dreaming about who knows what, so it's not a subject we discuss, lol, BUT, the fact remains he knows I do have an obsession with well cut stones and therefore he would want to be sure any stone he purchased for me stood up to my expectations even if he can't tell the difference.

Just a thought. I hope others respond too to help you with this one

Michelle

 

[phoenixgirl]

It seems like you know what you want and have found it. I think a 3.2 on the HCA is fine. Get your stone and enjoy it!

 

[Hest88]

If the diamond is for yourself and you can't tell the difference, then I agree you shouldn't pay more for an ideal cut. I wouldn't pay more for top of the line sports car over my current car because I wouldn't appreciate it, so I think the same principle applies to you and diamonds.

 

[jbernste]

Wow...these weren't the response I'd have expected, but I'm happy to hear that some folks share my views. My fiance-to-be cares less about diamonds than I do. She's not the sort of girl who has made any demands as far as our engagement is concerned. She loves me and doesn't have any preconceived notions of how the diamond in her engagement ring should be cut. Her only instructions were 1) a round diamond, 2) a solitaire and 3) in a platinum setting.

You guys are great. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

 

[hoorray]

Ok -- I'll be devil's advocate. (In general I agree with the above responses tho). Have you seen a great ideal cut next to the stone you are considering? If so, and you and your intended don't see a difference that you care about -- then by all means go with the stone you have chosen (who's specs don't look like those of "frozen spit" anyway). If you have not seen the difference (or she hasn't), then I encourage you to try to see the difference before making our final decision.

The reason I say this is that I have lots of diamonds, but currently only one super ideal, which I got last year. It is a completely different stone than the others, and I really enjoy it, as does my husband, (surprizingly enough). He interrupts me occasionally just to comment on how beautiful the sparkling at the moment is....)

 

[Chrisk327]

Hey, if that is what makes you happy go for it. I like the whole superideal thing.... but the diamond i got my girl scores middle 2s. mine, does have good light return, and I looked at superideals next to my diamond and saw the difference. The difference for me was there, but was small enough for me overlook. However, I did see diamonds that were supose to be "better" by the AGS standards than mine, look rather ugly next to the one I picked.

Main importance here is to look at what you're getting and be happy with it after having the info and seeing what else is out there.
Look at it and see if you're happy.

 

[Mara]

Hmmm.




I can't get on board with this. Why?




Because you may not be able to appreciate a super ideal louper cut, that's fine. BUT to go from not wanting the cream of the crop to getting something that in my opinion is less than stellar? That is a HUGE jump.




Where is the in-between? I have to say I am really shocked, don't know that I have ever seen someone say that they don't want a well-cut stone. You are spending almost $10k here, be smart about it.




Does your gal want size and that is why you are sacrificing so much? If she really doesn't care...then why would you go for such a large sized stone?




The stone doesn't look absolutely horrible...so don't get me wrong. But what are your priorities here. Obviously not cut. Not clarity. Not color really. Size? That seems to be the big differentiator.




I saw an amazing 1.50 J VS on WF the other day, it's almost an ACA (shows amazing IS image and has absolutely fabulous numbers) and it's $7700 before Pscope discount.




They also have a 1.60 I VS that is similar for around $9200 or similar before Pscope discount.




Jonathan at GOG has a 1.42 H SI2 that I was drooling over this morning which was $6700.




or what about this one? Hmmm the stats look similar to the WF stone but wait..the cut is H&A for the same price?




GOG Brokered stone: 1.72 H SI2 AGS0 Hearts and Arrows, 1.7 EX on HCA: $9611




That stone right above kind of says that you could get a H&A and not pay extra over this other WF stone? Don't you think? Hey if its not extra $$ and it is supposed to be better performing (imagine that 9 out of 10 of people see the difference even if you don't).




All of these stones are going to be very well cut and don't seem to 'break the bank' and are still cheaper than what you are considering. You may not see the perfectly cut H&A in the stone but I don't think that you need to just say to hell with it and buy some big honker just because. $10k here, I can't really believe that if BOTH of you don't care anything about the stone that you would spend that much money AND get such a big stone.




And don't worry, I am not saying you can't deviate from the norm of ACA wonderfulness and get something different and a little cheaper. I myself bought a very non-ideal stone that performed well. But just be sure you know what you are sacrificing here, AND I think that your jump from superideal 1EX HCA performer to 3.2 HCA performer is a big one. What about a 2?

 

[jbernste]

Thanks so much, Mara, for your input. You're right -- the priority is size, but only because I just haven't been able to differentiate much based on cut, color and clarity. All the differences (except for cut) only become apparent under the loupe. As for cut, that only becomes apparent with special tools or an idealscope at the very least.

That said, I'd be willing to pay _marginally more_ for an h&a stone, provided I didn't have to sacrifice much on size. There isn't much out there right now that I've been able to find in the 1.7-2ct. range that's near-ideal. I'd be thrilled if you could point me to some candidates, because I just can't find them. That 1.72 ct H SI2 H&A GOG brokered stone you mentioned sounds good...I can't find it on GOG's site, though, and you didn't include a link. I see a 1.72 ct I SI2, but no H SI2. Where'd you find that?

Thanks again!

 

[jbernste]

Ahh...never mind. I see that brokered stone on GOG's site now. It's in the additional h&a search engine...

Very interesting...

 

[Chas_T]

If I were you, I would do as some of the posters have suggested, which is shop around to acquire the best value for your dollar. 10K is not chump change by any means and if you are investing that type of money, I'd perhaps do some more research and investigate these other stones suggested by Mara.

My experience with quality over quantity (size) is limited in the world of diamonds, but I can provide an example that recently came to my attention when my newly engaged fiancé and I indirectly compared her ring to her sisters. My finance owns a 1.62 Ideal Cut and her sister owns a 1.96. I am not blatant enough to ask her color, cut, etc.

They were sitting across the room with hands extended, size by side and I took about a 20 second comparison peek and even though my fiancés sister's stone looked larger, it was like diffused sunlight versus a bright summers day sunshine on the beach. There was a huge difference in flash and sparkle. The advise given by the posters here stressing cut, versus size struck me like one of Oprah's light bulb moments. I knew at that moment that I made the correct choice for me.

I am not suggesting that the stone you are considering is sub par. It may be all you need and more. However, truly investigate and make sure you get the most bang for your buck. Perhaps with a bit more research, you may be able to acquire a better cut and therefore, a better value for your hard earned money.

Much Luck,
Charles