Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Cut help please - Thinking of upgrading my princess cut diamond to better cut (with photos)

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
*Pics to come in second post*

Hello everyone,

I've had my engagement ring since I was 21. I'm in my 30's now and the ring carries a lot of sentimental value.
I love the ring and DH and I picked it out together. I didn't know what I want at the time (I was going back and forth between a plain radiant solitaire, to a radiant with channel set band, to a cushion halo), but when I saw this one, I knew it was THE ring for me. Since then, every time I've thought of "upgrading" to another ring with larger/different diamond, I just can't bear the thought of it. So, the setting stays.
I do think that I would love my ring even more if my center stone didn't look so "watery". I was hoping I could provide some info about my diamond and some photos and get your thoughts.

The center stone is 5.19 x 4.96 x 3.25 mm 0.70 ct G VS2
Depth 65.5%
Table 73%
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick


While it has nice sparkle under spotlighting, I find that the LED lighting that really makes well cut diamonds POP does not make my princess cut pop.
I don't know if this is just the nature of princess cuts (not as good light return compared to round brilliant). My stone sometimes looks a bit like crushed ice, has good sparkle, but also looks....watery. Like lacking depth and contrast? There is sometimes a dark "quatrefoil" in the middle of my diamond - I don't know if this is a sign of the not so good cut, or if it's a reflection of the prongs that hold my diamond in place.

I've reached out to the local jeweler who sold me this ring, to see about replacing my diamond with one that's better cut and has better light return.

So I wanted to get your thoughts (again, pics in next post) to see if this would be a good idea. Can I get a better princess cut? Or will it be a waste of time and princess cuts in general just don't perform that well?

Any thoughts appreciated. I only have a loupe and phone camera so the pics aren't the greatest, but I hope it's better than nothing.
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Photos
It looks milky under the loupe but I think it’s just the magnification and dirty lens...

CC23CB0D-DCF8-444B-954B-1A89F062C1A9.jpeg
 

Attachments

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
280
*Pics to come in second post*

Hello everyone,

I've had my engagement ring since I was 21. I'm in my 30's now and the ring carries a lot of sentimental value.
I love the ring and DH and I picked it out together. I didn't know what I want at the time (I was going back and forth between a plain radiant solitaire, to a radiant with channel set band, to a cushion halo), but when I saw this one, I knew it was THE ring for me. Since then, every time I've thought of "upgrading" to another ring with larger/different diamond, I just can't bear the thought of it. So, the setting stays.
I do think that I would love my ring even more if my center stone didn't look so "watery". I was hoping I could provide some info about my diamond and some photos and get your thoughts.

The center stone is 5.19 x 4.96 x 3.25 mm 0.70 ct G VS2
Depth 65.5%
Table 73%
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick


While it has nice sparkle under spotlighting, I find that the LED lighting that really makes well cut diamonds POP does not make my princess cut pop.
I don't know if this is just the nature of princess cuts (not as good light return compared to round brilliant). My stone sometimes looks a bit like crushed ice, has good sparkle, but also looks....watery. Like lacking depth and contrast? There is sometimes a dark "quatrefoil" in the middle of my diamond - I don't know if this is a sign of the not so good cut, or if it's a reflection of the prongs that hold my diamond in place.

I've reached out to the local jeweler who sold me this ring, to see about replacing my diamond with one that's better cut and has better light return.

So I wanted to get your thoughts (again, pics in next post) to see if this would be a good idea. Can I get a better princess cut? Or will it be a waste of time and princess cuts in general just don't perform that well?

Any thoughts appreciated. I only have a loupe and phone camera so the pics aren't the greatest, but I hope it's better than nothing.

Beautiful ring and I can see what you’re describing but you can definitely get a better princess cut. Here is an idea cut princess, just to show you how a well cut one can perform https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4384035.htm
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Beautiful ring and I can see what you’re describing but you can definitely get a better princess cut. Here is an idea cut princess, just to show you how a well cut one can perform https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4384035.htm

Thank you for your reply! I don’t know why I didn’t search larger sizes on WF... they didn’t have any in the smaller range so I stopped looking.

More photos next to my transitional cut to show the watery effect. If the light return is something that can be improved and possible with princess it then I’ll see what the jeweller/diamond dealer says and what they can find for me.

There’s a warranty on my ring and I’m not sure if replacing a stone I sourced myself would void it (really want to keep the warranty since I get the missing melee replaced for free - there are 154 of them) but I’ll ask and hopefully they can source something similar to the cut above WF ideal for me...

03800443-BE6E-4F01-A1E0-CA6AF89D38BA.jpeg
 

Attachments

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,195
Lovely ring.
To reuse the original setting you need to look for Princess cuts @ 5.20mm x 5.20mm. Maybe just a fraction bigger, any smaller and you’ll have an “air gap”.
I think one reason your original Princess cut isn’t so sparkly is it’s cut, it’s not symmetrical. Two sides are 5.19, the other two are 4.96mm.
the one txborn79 suggested would be a good fit.
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Lovely ring.
To reuse the original setting you need to look for Princess cuts @ 5.20mm x 5.20mm. Maybe just a fraction bigger, any smaller and you’ll have an “air gap”.
I think one reason your original Princess cut isn’t so sparkly is it’s cut, it’s not symmetrical. Two sides are 5.19, the other two are 4.96mm.
the one txborn79 suggested would be a good fit.

Interesting, I can find lots of “asymmetrical” princess cuts that are considered ideal. I didn’t think that would be it, I really thought it was just the cut itself.

The diamond @Txborn79 suggested is too big for my setting, isn’t it? My V prongs would have to “open up” to accommodate? I’ve made an appointment at the local diamond dealer to see what they can find me first and get their recommendation for size. Not really looking to pay way more for a 1.0 ct upgrade from a 0.7 ct, heh.

I’m in Canada so I’d prefer to look here first before ordering across the border (not really looking forward to dealing with international returns if needed).

thanks for the response :)
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,622
I think you need to look for a princess cut with less mains in that size of stone. The more mains you have the more tiny facets
you will have. This can lead to facets that dont return light well. If you go with 2 mains in that size stone, you'll have fewer
facets but bigger facets (with hopefully better light return). Also, look for stones that are AGS000 graded with ideal light return.

1618154618380.png
Here are a few examples of AGS stones with fewer mains (looks like 2 IMO)

This stone looks to be a 3 main AGS stone. Can you see the difference?

This looks like a 4 main.

Anyway, my advice is to go with a 2 main AGS000 stone for better light return. Ask your jeweler to bring in some stones that
fit these criteria.
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
I think you need to look for a princess cut with less mains in that size of stone. The more mains you have the more tiny facets
you will have. This can lead to facets that dont return light well. If you go with 2 mains in that size stone, you'll have fewer
facets but bigger facets (with hopefully better light return). Also, look for stones that are AGS000 graded with ideal light return.

1618154618380.png
Here are a few examples of AGS stones with fewer mains (looks like 2 IMO)

This stone looks to be a 3 main AGS stone. Can you see the difference?

This looks like a 4 main.

Anyway, my advice is to go with a 2 main AGS000 stone for better light return. Ask your jeweler to bring in some stones that
fit these criteria.

Thank you! Yes, I can definitely see the difference. I noticed that while I was saving stones that I liked, most of the ones I liked had fewer mains.

You’re right, mine has way too many facets which may be why it gives off that watery crushed ice look.

I’m thinking of requesting the jeweller to only bring in stones with AGS certification. Seems like when it’s a GIA stone and categorized as “ideal”, you don’t really know what you’ll get.
 

oncrutchesrightnow

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
269
I think you need to look for a princess cut with less mains in that size of stone. The more mains you have the more tiny facets
you will have. This can lead to facets that dont return light well. If you go with 2 mains in that size stone, you'll have fewer
facets but bigger facets (with hopefully better light return). Also, look for stones that are AGS000 graded with ideal light return.

1618154618380.png
Here are a few examples of AGS stones with fewer mains (looks like 2 IMO)

This stone looks to be a 3 main AGS stone. Can you see the difference?

This looks like a 4 main.

Anyway, my advice is to go with a 2 main AGS000 stone for better light return. Ask your jeweler to bring in some stones that
fit these criteria.


This was super helpful. When I was replacing a princess cut, which I loved, I replaced it with a new stone that had more mains. Did not know what they were called at the time. In the store and similar lighting there are a lot of little flashes of color. But outside that lighting there is less fire in the new stone. Now I understand why. My old stone had fewer mains and therefore larger flashes of color. So thanks for that information and links.
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
I have been looking at diamonds all day at James Allen and BlueNile to get an idea of what I may want and I think I may have found a couple of good options if the local jeweler can't find me anything.

My search criteria is 0.75-0.95 ct, H+, SI+, excellent polish/symmetry, Ideal cut and only AGS certified. I found 5 diamonds within my budget that matched this criteria, and of the 4 reports I requested from JA, these two came out on top (the other 2 had some slight asymmetry in the light pattern that I didn't like)

Any thoughts on either? The first one I love the two chevron pattern vs the three-chevron in the other, but I'm not 100% sure about the large "less bright" spot in the middle, though

0.90 F SI1 - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.90-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-10543437
Screenshot 2021-04-11 205708.jpg

0.81 G VS2 - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.81-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-7558920
Screenshot 2021-04-11 210000.jpg
 

LoveMeDo

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
209
I would be concerned about a dead spot in the middle of the stone like that first one seems to have. Given your reasons for upgrading I would personally stay away from that one just to avoid more of the same issue!
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
I would be concerned about a dead spot in the middle of the stone like that first one seems to have. Given your reasons for upgrading I would personally stay away from that one just to avoid more of the same issue!

I'm not really clear on whether the green is really a "dead" spot or just a little less bright when viewed straight on.
I looked at all the Whiteflash A-Cut-Above Princesses within my search range and they all have that green spot in the middle!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,622
Green is not a dead spot. No worries on the center. I like them both. The first one does have a feather near a corner.
If interested in that stone I would talk to the gemologist at JA. I know you're still waiting to hear back from your jeweler.
Hopefully, he can find you an AGS000 stone at a decent price!
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Green is not a dead spot. No worries on the center. I like them both. The first one does have a feather near a corner.
If interested in that stone I would talk to the gemologist at JA. I know you're still waiting to hear back from your jeweler.
Hopefully, he can find you an AGS000 stone at a decent price!

Thank you! I will reach out to someone at JA and ask if that feather has reached the surface of affect durability. It’s the one on the bottom left that is quite long?
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Just chatted with one of the gemologists on JA - she said the feather is unlikely to be of concern but it would be inspected in NY before it gets shipped out and if the feather were one that reached the surface, it would fail inspection.
 

OECfan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
52
Update...no idea if anyone is reading anymore, but here goes anyway :bigsmile:

I met with my jeweler and they aren't able to bring in any diamonds with AGS certification (they only work with GIA stones). Again, I'm in Canada, and I think in general they're not as common here as GIA ones.

Long story short, one of my options is now a 1.00 ct F VS Hearts on Fire Dream cut diamond that's roughly 5.6 mm x 5.6 mm. She thinks she can get it to fit in my setting due to the cut corners (even though the limit on the princess cut would've been ~5.3mm).

I'm going to see the HOF again on Saturday and compare it with some other princess cuts they have in the store to see if it's worth having her bring in princess cut diamonds with specific proportions in light of the lack of AGS graded stones. I may be completely happy with the light performance of the HOF. The red flag for me on the GIA cert she forwarded is the strong blue fluorescence - I want to make sure the diamond isn't milky or hazy because of this. I also contacted HOF to see if they could dig up the AGS report based on the HOF #.

They are giving me a ridiculously high price for my existing stone, so if I were to go for the HOF and trade-in my current diamond, the equivalent "out of pocket" cost would be somethin glike $4,000.

Worst case scenario, I do still have the option to buy my own stone and have them set it. The setting + insurance is $$$ so I'm hoping I can get something through them that I'm happy with.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Royal Jewels: A Mother's Love
    Royal Jewels: A Mother's Love
    Celebrity Moms Jewelry Style
    Celebrity Moms Jewelry Style
    Star Wars Day: Princess Leia's Jewelry
    Star Wars Day: Princess Leia's Jewelry

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top