Cut & Color vs. Size - I''m so confused!

[Stomp]

Hi all,
First time poster - so another noob question

I think I found a very good place in LA's Jewelry Mart that came highly referred from a coworker for my gf's engagement ring. They give full credit toward upgrades and guarantee I won't find an equally graded stone for cheaper. The stone is as follows and was absolutely beautiful (VERY sparkly compared to others we saw):

Type: Brilliant
Weight - 1.27
Cut - Ideal
Color - D
Clarity - [EDIT: S1, not VS2) Said to have absolutely no visible inclusions w/ the naked eye

(EDIT #2 - Cost is $8,700). The seller (also a Graduate Gemologist and G.G. GIA) is telling me this one is great and I should go with it over a larger rock that might not be of quite the same quality. Does this sound like a good diamond, or could/should I concede a bit on color and/or clarity and go for more size (her ring size is 4.25 and it will be set in a three stone setting w/ stones of .30ct on each side.

Thanks!

 

[icelady]

Hi Stomp,

Welcome to PS!

Have you just started your search for your gf e-ring? I hope you enjoy the journey!

You will need more information than posted to check out the cut of this stone. As most people on this forum will tell you, cut is extremely important. You may want to read up on cut on the Pricescope Tutorial on the home page.

Is the stone certified? If so, you will find girdle width, depth and table numbers if it is GIA certed. You will also need the crown height and pavillion depth numbers or percentages. You can use the Cut Advisor on the home page to assess the cut of this stone. Or maybe ask for opinions after posting the additional info.

Good luck.

 

[Stomp]

Thanks Icelady. Yes - I've just started the search, and truth be told I'm tempted to simply stick w/ the person I've found assuming the price pencils out. If I need to adjust the ring I'm going w/ so be it - but I'm pretty happy so far. I'll get all the pertinent info tomorrow and post!

Thanks again.

 

[icelady]

Stomp,

I just searched (on PS Home page) for a 1.27 D VS2 and the prices were from approx $8600 to $9400. Your price sounds very fair, but for your piece of mind I would suggest going ahead and getting the numbers to plug into the cut advisor just to be sure about the cut.

There are several other threads regarding cut and color. You can have an exceptional cut and G, H, and I colors will face up quite icy. Many people who choose to go with G and H color exceptional cuts are able to go with a larger diamond for the money they would spend on a smaller higher color rating. I say only you can determine what you and your gf will be comfortable with. I am a bit of a color snob and have an F myself, however since my purchase I have run across a number of well cut G, H and even an I that I would proudly wear! PQ, who is a regular poster here, has a gorgeous J color that is outstanding.

Hope this helps!

 

[WendyT]

Hi Stomp!

Welcome to PS! I'm a newbie here too. Just decided today that I've been a lurker here long enough.

. I noticed that you were shopping at the LA Jewelry Mart. My grandmother recently got a GREAT deal for a 1.49ct, G color, VVS 1 or 2(not sure) stone not to mention the cut of it makes it really sparkly. It was also GIA certified. My family has been buying engagement rings from this place for years. Anyway, it's a wholesale diamond booth at the jewelry mart. I think it's called Viva Jewelry? Go by there and check it out. I promise you won't be disappointed by their stones and prices. I hope this helps in your quest for an e-ring. Good luck!

Wendy

 

[69gm]

hi stomp,

icelady has some great views and suggestions. another thing to make sure is if it's a VS2 or SI1. you stated you weren't sure, but you need to since there is a definite price difference between the two.

also like icelady stated, we need more info to give a better opinion on your stone. please also supply the specs on the other stone(s) you are considering so that the friendly folks here can help you comparison shop. the larger stone might be a good buy or you might be better off with the smaller stone if it indeed has waaaay better specs. a well cut stone with good specs will actually look "bigger" than one that isn't. but again we won't know that without info.

good luck in your hunt! you will find that doing your research will yield in a very educated and satisfying purchase...mainly because you took the time to accumulate knowledge in making a well educated purchase...and congrats on coming to the right place to seek help. you will only find great help here on PriceScope (PS).

aloha!

 

[Stomp]

More info - please give your honest opinion.

GIA
Shape: Round Ideal Cut
Carat: 1.27
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 61.3
Table: 58
Crown Angle: 34.0
Crown %: 12.5 (sounded like a guesstimate)
Pavilion Angle: 40.75
Pavilion %: 43.0
Girdle: Thin to Medium & Faceted
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 6.97 x 7.00 x 4.28
Price - $8,700

She also stated the inclusions can't be seen from side or top, and are included crystals ("pregnant diamond??"). Definitely not visible to naked eye. She's adamant this is a great diamond.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Stomp]

Looks like this is almost that exact diamond - for $650 less.

http://www.jewelryzone.com/details.php3?item=945018

 

[icelady]

Hey Stomp,

Good job on getting so much info! I plugged the numbers into the Cut Advisor on the PS home page and it rated a 1 which is Excellent. It appears to be excellent for light return, fire, and scintillation, and it rated very good for spread. I went to this site and compared the numbers with the AGA cut grade charts on that website and it came out a 1A which is excellent also.

When I went back to search for diamonds on the PS home page, the range for an SI1 is $7450 to $8202. I searched for AGS0 cuts. So now I think the jeweler you are using is a bit high, but you will pay more at a bricks and mortar store than online. It is up to you as to whether the difference in price is exceptable or not. Perhaps they would deal a little?

You mentioned that jewelry zone has a similar stone for $650 less, Abazia's also has one with the same depth and table and AGS0 cut, also 1.27 D for $7902! Sometimes several vendors are working from the same list of diamonds.

Good luck whatever you end up doing. Just post pictures, you know we LOVE pictures!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Scores well on the cut adviser!! 1.0, TIC, Ex/Ex/Ex/VG. Should be a dazzler!! If it's priced right, eye clean, and it's calling to you, sounds like a good one!!

Edited to add:

I thought you found a price on-line that was $650 more than the local price and that you had seen the diamond in person.

IceLady is right. There are lists of diamonds available. Much like the "Multiple Listings" for buying a house. Your local B&M could have pulled the diamond specs off the list, and contacted the wholesaler for the Sarin info. The diamond sounds like a great performer. Local B&M's tend to operate on a higher margin than Net Vendors. You just have decide if the additional price is worth it to you.

 

[Stomp]

I did see the diamond in person so I know this one was in fact with the shop (Bridal Rings Company). They claim to have a satisfaction guarantee (as well as a price), so I’ll bring this up with them when I go back this weekend (to check a few more out just in case) and let you all know what transpires. Since I have put a small amount down ($1,500) I may be at their mercy now.

I have to admit, given what my GF and I thought when we first saw it (compared to the other ones we viewed), coupled with the feedback so far and based on what the seller is saying (again, she’s a graduate gemologist and a G.G GIA (whatever that is)), I’m truly leaning toward this one. That being said, maybe I’ll find an H or I color w/ a bit more size and a similar amount of brilliance…. but this one really was quite a dazzler in person.

So one more question (for now) - can the cut proportions get much better than this one, or is the Ex/Ex/Ex/Vg mentioned by PQ pretty darn good?

Thanks again from uber-rock-noob!

 

[icelady]

Stomp,

The only thing this diamond rated very good on was the spread, the rest was excellent! You can't get a whole lot better than that, especially since you have already seen the diamond and had a chance to compare it to others already.

When you go back to view and compare some more, you will know if it is the diamond for you or not!! Let us know what happens!

 

[Stomp]

So I guess Ex/Ex/Ex/Ex isn't a dime a dozen?

 

[icelady]

Nope! Neither is EX/EX/EX/VG!

 

[pqcollectibles]

It's really rare that a stone comes thru with an Ex for spread. Most of the great performers we see are Ex/Ex/Ex/VG.

Also, there's a trick to getting that same stone thru another Vendor, if you cannot come to a satisfactory price agreement with the current seller. When you contact another Vendor, be sure and tell that Vendor the diamond is "out On Memo". If you have the GIA Cert Number that will also be helpful. When the second Vendor contacts the wholesaler, it will make it easy for the wholesaler to know exactly which diamond you are talking about. The wholesaler can recall the diamond from the Vendor where you saw the diamond and have it sent to the second Vendor.

If you decide to work with the local B&M, that's great. You'll know you've found a great local, that supplies a quality product, and isn't GOUGING you to the tune of 30%-40%. The price difference, in this particular case, is less than 10%.

 

[69gm]

hey stomp,

everything that icelady and pq are telling you are RIGHT ON!

just wanted to add that if you do find that your local jeweler is going off of a list, find out if they are willing to negotiate.

this EXACT thing happened to me. my jeweler and another person i was working with in georgia were both proposing the exact same diamond! they both supplied me with a copy of the AGS cert...that's how i found out. anyhoo, my local jeweler was able to bring in the stone, no obligation to buy, for me to take a look at (this was before i found out it was the EXACT same stone). it was gorgeous! after i discovered that both jewelers were trying to sell me the same stone, i compared prices and found the one in georgia was quoting me a lower price. i informed my local jeweler and he quickly met that other jeweler's price! needless to say, i bought from my local jeweler because he was honest and knowledgeable throughout the entire process. plus it's nice to have a local jeweler in case you need support as well as other things (settings, etc.). i consider myself lucky to have found a great B&M with people who are knowledgeable and honest.

you may be in the same position...good luck!

aloha!

p.s. fyi the "G.G." stands for Graduate Gemologist. GIA is the highly respected school she got her degree from. so saying she's a graduate gemologist and GG GIA is kinda redundant. i hope she's not introducing herself as that...

 

[GlitterGal]

----------------
On 6/8/2004 7:31:27 PM pqcollectibles wrote:


Also, there's a trick to getting that same stone thru another Vendor, if you cannot come to a satisfactory price agreement with the current seller. When you contact another Vendor, be sure and tell that Vendor the diamond is 'out On Memo'. If you have the GIA Cert Number that will also be helpful. When the second Vendor contacts the wholesaler, it will make it easy for the wholesaler to know exactly which diamond you are talking about. The wholesaler can recall the diamond from the Vendor where you saw the diamond and have it sent to the second Vendor.
----------------

Hi Stomp,

PQ is right in suggesting you try this, but as you saw with 69gm's case, many times, if you mention that you saw the same diamond listed at another vendor's place, for a lower price, the current vendor that you are working with will match that price.

I think a request to price match would be worth asking if you really enjoy who you are working with and you want to save yourself a bit of time. Recalling the diamond from one vendor and sending it to another will cost you in days between shipments (and these shipments from vendor to wholesaler to vendor again are sometimes sent via US Registered Mail insured, which takes even longer than an overnight carrier like FedEx).

Hope this helps and please keep us posted.

Kindest regards always,
Linda