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Custom design gurus, I could use some help.

meg_

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
202
I think I might be in over my head, and I need some help communicating changes in a hand forged ring.

This first version of the ring was VERY close to what I hoped to get. However, the jeweler took some liberty with the design and created an asymmetrical halo that I just couldn't wrap my head around. (It's higher North/South) Since it wasn't an element that I asked for, they graciously offered to make it again. Here is the first version.

meg1.jpg
meg2_0.jpg
m2.jpg
m1.jpg

Once they offered to remake the ring, I did also request that the shoulders start a little bit farther down the shank. I didn't really like how steep they appeared. Now that I've been staring at the images for 3 months, I actually wish I had just let them finish this ring. It's really grown on me. (sadly, it's been destroyed.)

My (incorrect) assumption was that the new version would look very similar, but with a "normal" halo. In fairness, they did tell me that there was a problem with the 14k Rose Gold being too brittle, so they needed to add a new petal to each side of the gallery for support.

Here are the pictures of the remade ring. It's not what I was expecting, and honestly, the changes are a little disappointing.

m2_0.jpg
m4.jpg
m1_0.jpg
m3_0.jpg

The jeweler agrees that the ring doesn't look the same and that again, elements were changed without being discussed. He has graciously offered to make a third version of the ring.

At this point I need help communicating exactly what I'm hoping to see so that I can avoid any additional problems.

Here are the major notations I have - will you let me know if you see/notice anything additional?

- I'd prefer the oval donut on the first ring, it gives the gallery more of an oval/cushion appearance (mirroring the shape of my stone), the gallery on the 2nd ring just looks round
- I don't like the extra petals on the gallery. This may mean I need to switch to 18k rose gold, but the fifth petal seems to make the entire gallery appear crowded
- The petals on the first ring seem to tuck up underneath the halo, which I prefer. On the second ring, they stick out. I can see them from the top down view.
- The donut/petal connection is different on the second ring, but I don't really have an opinion on which is "better". My only concern is if the extra metal is making the diamond sit higher. Anyone know?

I guess my only other question is if you guys think I should see this one in person to see if I care as much when I'm not looking at macro images. Do you think it's worth seeing at this point? Or should I just have them remake it, again, because of all the changes?

Sorry for the novel....I appreciate all of your help!
 
I would definitely recommend that you see this ring in person before making any decision. I know that I was stunned by how much more delicate my oval ring looked in person compared to the macro photos sent to me upon completion. I learned that its worth seeing something in person (and on your hand) to determine what you like and don't like.

I'm going to withhold my opinion until you've seen the ring in person, as I don't want to color your impression one way or another. I'll be anxious to hear what you think when you see it in person.
 
yennyfire|1372725607|3475725 said:
I would definitely recommend that you see this ring in person before making any decision. I know that I was stunned by how much more delicate my oval ring looked in person compared to the macro photos sent to me upon completion. I learned that its worth seeing something in person (and on your hand) to determine what you like and don't like.

I'm going to withhold my opinion until you've seen the ring in person, as I don't want to color your impression one way or another. I'll be anxious to hear what you think when you see it in person.


Agreed!!!! Meg since if the vendor will let you test drive it for a few days. Then email me your thoughts and after "hearing" them I will email you my OP.
 
See it in person if you can. There are all sorts of things we see in a macro photo that we may simply overlook IRL.

Looking at both designs - I could easily fall in love with either one! I personally find the extra petals very romantic and like the look of them touching the halo where you can see it top down - it enhances the floral/halo look. But that's me....

I hope you get to see it and can report back to us! Take lots of pics - but from a distance so you get a real life perspective. Good luck!
 
Thanks ladies. I'll see if they will let me see it in person. I do understand that macro can be overwhelming.

I guess I'm just sad at the loss of the original shape. The first ring had a gallery that appeared to follow the shape of the stone, where as the new one just looks like a bowl. I really loved that aspect, and I'm worried that even if I like the new ring in person, I'll always miss that.
 
I'd say this...

1. See it in person.

2. If you still want it remade, pay what you owe, then go to a CAD artist. I think you want too much control of the design for hand-forged to really work for you, especially not with whoever is doing it since they are prone to making decisions without consulting you first. There is a work-style mismatch here.
 
distracts|1372744266|3475865 said:
2. If you still want it remade, pay what you owe, then go to a CAD artist. I think you want too much control of the design for hand-forged to really work for you

Thank you.

I don't really think that's true though. I just really liked the first ring and was disappointed with all the changes made. My hope here was just to clearly communicate the things I liked with the original version they crafted.

I did ask to see this version in person, so we'll see...
 
Well if you're insistent on using this same guy again, my note is that the petals on the first one would stick out beyond the halo once the stones are set too, thanks to the metal that needs to be cut away for the pave setting. Again, I think you would probably get a more secure/better look either from casting or from platinum (since the metal can be welded rather than soldered).
 
Can I just say, meg, it's a stunning ring. Just gorgeous. I don't know if I would miss the elements you described after a while, but maybe I am not as detail oriented as you are ;)

I tend to trust my jeweller on structural issues - he does things that work for the piece and wearability. For example, he made a pair of earrings for me recently and I hated the backs until I saw them on my ear. It was done for a purpose that makes the earring sit much better and work better structurally. However, the basket on a ring is different. It's visible. You see it all the time.

I agree with the others. See if they will let you have it for a few days before making any permanent decisions.

PS: can I just say again, I love it!! I would also love to know who your jeweller is and the specs on the stone.....
 
misskittycat|1372759139|3475912 said:
Can I just say, meg, it's a stunning ring. Just gorgeous. I don't know if I would miss the elements you described after a while, but maybe I am not as detail oriented as you are ;)

I tend to trust my jeweller on structural issues - he does things that work for the piece and wearability. For example, he made a pair of earrings for me recently and I hated the backs until I saw them on my ear. It was done for a purpose that makes the earring sit much better and work better structurally. However, the basket on a ring is different. It's visible. You see it all the time.

I agree with the others. See if they will let you have it for a few days before making any permanent decisions.

PS: can I just say again, I love it!! I would also love to know who your jeweller is and the specs on the stone.....

Thank you!

They really are both beautiful rings. I just happen to be partial to certain elements in the first version. Hopefully I'll be able to see it/wear it and the changes in the gallery won't bother me? I have no idea - but hopefully I'll get a chance to see.

I very much like and respect this jeweler! And you have a great point about structural issues. I specifically asked for 14k gold, and they did what they needed to do to make such a brittle metal work. Thank you for the reminder. :appl:

I feel better having slept on it. I still prefer the original shape, but the new one is lovely as well.
 
I am not a custom design guru, but I just wanted to say that the second ring is BEAUTIFUL! I see what you are talking about with the petals of the gallery in the first ring, but I think the second looks amazing! I love how you can see it from the top. I'm glad you decided to see it in person, because I have a feeling you are going to fall in love with it :)
 
So I think the issue is that you seem to want absolute design control. But you are working with a designer. Not a benchman who just executes other's visions. This is a conflict. They are used to having creative contol, and in this case you are not willing to give that up even a bit.

Also I think that you need to step away from the macro pics.

I personally ADORE the first iteration. Yes, I see what you mean about the sides being slightly higher but I would have given them a chance to finish that one and seen it in person. It's been over a year that I have liked something enough that someone on this board was showing that I had an immediate visceral reaction of "MUST HAVE THAT..." and yet that's exactly what I thought when I saw the first set of pics. I WANT that ring, as it is without the pave, for my own. (Who are you working with? Must have that design-- NO pave for me, just a gorgeous bezel).

I do think the pave work looks amazing on the second. I also think you should see it in person. And then decide.

As for what to tell the designer if you have it remade a third time? I think you need to stop giving directions and stop 'telling' them anything.

What you need to do is have a conversation on the phone. Plan an hour and make sure they too have allotted enough time for a collaborative session. Start it by asking them to look at both sets of pics. And then ask THEM to list what the differences they see are. As they list each difference say "I like that and I'd like to keep that element" or "I don't care for that change, I prefer the original version." That way, instead of you showing them what you see. You look through their eyes, and then you can tell them how you feel about what they see. This is much more effective. Once they have listed the differences they see, if there are any they missed... then you should walk them through what you see, and make sure they understand it.

THEN FOLLOW UP WITH AN EMAIL THAT LISTS EACH DEVIATION and a "We agreed to keep this element of the 2nd ring" or a "We agreed to revert back to this detail of the 1st ring" next to each. Ask them to confirm back that they agree with your re-cap.

Finally as part of the conversation you need to say: "Please understand that ANY deviation from what we have decided in this conversation is to be checked with me. No matter what the reason for the deviation, I need to be informed BEFORE any change is made. For example: given the problem with the gold in the 2nd iteration, the solutions were 1) extra petal or 2) 18kt gold instead of 14kt. You chose to add the petal, and I understand and appreciate why you did so. However, given the choice, I would have chosen to go with the alloy difference to preserve the 4 petal design. I think we can avoid this on the future, so whether the issue is structural or technical, or simply aesthetic I would like to be consulted so that I can make the choices that need to be made, once you have explained to me what the issues are."

And then in the email you need to state: As we agreed, in the future, any changes to what we have agreed upon will be approved by me before they are implemented.
 
Gypsy|1372823883|3476383 said:
So I think the issue is that you seem to want absolute design control. But you are working with a designer. Not a benchman who just executes other's visions. This is a conflict. They are used to having creative contol, and in this case you are not willing to give that up even a bit.

Also I think that you need to step away from the macro pics.

I personally ADORE the first iteration. Yes, I see what you mean about the sides being slightly higher but I would have given them a chance to finish that one and seen it in person. It's been over a year that I have liked something enough that someone on this board was showing that I had an immediate visceral reaction of "MUST HAVE THAT..." and yet that's exactly what I thought when I saw the first set of pics. I WANT that ring, as it is without the pave, for my own. (Who are you working with? Must have that design-- NO pave for me, just a gorgeous bezel).

I do think the pave work looks amazing on the second. I also think you should see it in person. And then decide.

As for what to tell the designer if you have it remade a third time? I think you need to stop giving directions and stop 'telling' them anything.

What you need to do is have a conversation on the phone. Plan an hour and make sure they too have allotted enough time for a collaborative session. Start it by asking them to look at both sets of pics. And then ask THEM to list what the differences they see are. As they list each difference say "I like that and I'd like to keep that element" or "I don't care for that change, I prefer the original version." That way, instead of you showing them what you see. You look through their eyes, and then you can tell them how you feel about what they see. This is much more effective. Once they have listed the differences they see, if there are any they missed... then you should walk them through what you see, and make sure they understand it.

THEN FOLLOW UP WITH AN EMAIL THAT LISTS EACH DEVIATION and a "We agreed to keep this element of the 2nd ring" or a "We agreed to revert back to this detail of the 1st ring" next to each. Ask them to confirm back that they agree with your re-cap.

Finally as part of the conversation you need to say: "Please understand that ANY deviation from what we have decided in this conversation is to be checked with me. No matter what the reason for the deviation, I need to be informed BEFORE any change is made. For example: given the problem with the gold in the 2nd iteration, the solutions were 1) extra petal or 2) 18kt gold instead of 14kt. You chose to add the petal, and I understand and appreciate why you did so. However, given the choice, I would have chosen to go with the alloy difference to preserve the 4 petal design. I think we can avoid this on the future, so whether the issue is structural or technical, or simply aesthetic I would like to be consulted so that I can make the choices that need to be made, once you have explained to me what the issues are."

And then in the email you need to state: As we agreed, in the future, any changes to what we have agreed upon will be approved by me before they are implemented.

Thank you Gypsy, that's incredibly helpful.

In hindsight, I really like the first iteration as well. Very much.

ERD's hand forger made both rings. However, I'm working with a sales person, who is working with a designer, and I think the process/communication got convoluted. The designer made the changes to the halo, the sales person came to me to see if it was ok, and I never really let it process - I think the sales person was put off by the changes also, because he immediately said they would remake it. I didn't request it. (But I also didn't stop it either - so I do take responsibility.)

Honestly, my guess is that I'll end up keeping the second version and forgoing another remake. I just don't think I have it in me. And there is nothing WRONG with the 2nd version - even if it is different.
 
See it in person.

And yes, if you are working through an intermediary, unless the intermediary is VERY good (Brian Gavin good) at communicating to the bench... you can get a lot of problems.

Still and all, have them promise in writing that if you aren't happy with it after you see it, they'll remake.
 
Oh Meg- don't give up and settle. I have a feeling you will really like this ring but if you heart calls for a 3rd version then do it. I know the wait is frustrating but I think you will be so much happier with a ring that you love. And like I said before if you fall in love with this version when you see it then great. Just realize you are not crazy and you have options. I know I have already told you this but I love the first veresion just without the curved halo. I think Chris really wants to nail this out of the ball park so if you want to go for round 3 then I think it is a great learning lesson for everyone. Especially with some of the advise Gypsy has given.

Goodluck my friend. Shoot me over some hand shots when you get them!
 
Thank you all for your thoughts last week. I got the ring, and although there are aspects that I may have liked more on the initial ring, I don't think any of them are important enough to remake the setting. The ring has a very different feel, because of the changes that the jeweler made, but now that I have it in person I like most classic styling that this setting has.

The pave work is incredible. It's so delicate and lovely. And the gallery, which while isn't what I was expecting, looks much more elegant and dainty when it's on my finger.

I honestly can't imagine sending it back and starting over.

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I think it looks incredible! More pictures please!!!
 
I'm glad you got it and could see it in person. I can't imagine designing something from scratch - it seems very daunting! That said, your ring is gorgeous. It looks very delicate and elegant on your finger. I'm not a huge fan of rose gold, but this ring makes me rethink that.
 
Geezy peezy, I :love: that ring! I am so in love with rose gold, and with the diamonds in the halo and shank - :lickout: I WANT! Could you send it over here for me to try it out?? :wavey:

Please tell me the specs of your stone. I have to know how the colors are working together! Congrats on a beauty!

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE mmmooooorrrrreeee pics!
 
Yay! Just found your SMTB thread :twirl:
 
I'm so glad you didn't have it remade! i can see all the issues you mention and can understand how frustrating it can be for things to not turn out how you expect but oh my! what a stunning ring!!! i absolutely love it and have to say it's one of my favourite rings! the color of the gold too is just delicious. and your little matching band.

I love you photos too. i mean your actual photography skills. bravo!
 
I had no idea you weren't crazy about the ring at first, but honestly, I really do LOVE it!! I mean, it's my new favorite ring on PS, that's how beautiful it is. I hope you love it too!
 
OMG I loooooove your ring it is perfect :love:
 
Hi Meg! Your ring is my favorite Pricescope ring. It's absolutely gorgeous!!! I am looking into setting options and am interested in a halo like yours with a basket/donut as well as a cathedral. I have read through your threads and saw your original budget and that you were initially planning on a bezel. I am just curious how things evolved from cad to hand forged and bezel to micropave. Did you just bite the bullet on budget? Also, would you recommend your vendor highly? This ring is one the few that I cannot tear my eyes away from so looking forward to learn more about your experience. Thanks so much for any insight you can provide!
 
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