Cushion with french sides - Which vendor to work with???

[DiamondXXX]

Hi everyone,

I decided that for my RHR I want a cushion cut center ring with french cuts on the sides... I have seen many in the topic: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-2011-trend-the-french-sides-collection.161358/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-2011-trend-the-french-sides-collection.161358/[/URL]
It is A LOT OF BLINK but I adore it so much!!!

I am not sure who to choose for collaboration.

If this was a dream world I would go for AVC as center and Leon Mege for setting, BUT - I have heard that LM does not set AVCs (anymore). At the same time the AVC I can afford is much smaller than I would desire. What are would be other options?

Victor Canera's CACs are great AGS000 choice - but the price is not really much lower from AVCs, so then I would prefer stick to AVC... at the same time this still leaves the setting question open (I am not keen on GOG settings). I thought about asking Mark T to source me a lovely cushion/old mine brilliant, I adored many I saw here - bostonjeff's stone, or the one of SunshineRn to name just a few. SunshineRn posted a wonderful topic on her ring and I thought I have my answer: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hand-forged-custom-from-mark-at-erd-the-jennifer.192010/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hand-forged-custom-from-mark-at-erd-the-jennifer.192010/[/URL]

But when searching further and finding a video of the ring, I feel it does not look as gorgeous and smooth on the video as it does on the pictures (LM example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya3HZk-GPWs , the ERD ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zPHapRm0A I DO see a big difference in the finish, and I am not sure I would be happy with the ERD ring after seeing the LM version. At the same time maybe they could customise it for me???).

So last option would be to just trust LM and source also the diamond with him. The truth is, I am afraid of letting go from the safe world of AVCs and CACs (and if not then Mark T sourced cushions, which I feel are safe choice too). Are my worries relevant? How do you feel about LM diamonds? How is it now, that his long trusted concierge Perry left? I am full of questions, sorry

PS: Last question - what size of diamond would you opt for AT LEAST with this design? I know its a question of budget and preference, but I feel that too small is in this case not good looking and I would not like to upgrade such a ring because of the cost of the setting. Thanks!!!

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Honestly, Leon is the master of proportion! My all time favorite french cut with a cushion diamond was Wintotty's Leon. I have had both an AVC and 2 antique cushions and all I have to say is that let your eyes pic what you prefer as far as faceting. My last antique cushion isn't perfect by any means in terms of light return, but it was pretty stinking close to perfection and I loved how the perfectly imperfect facets worked together to make a spectacular colored light display. I personally prefer 2-3 carat cushions for this look, but it's not what about we prefer, but what you want!


Some other vendors for antique cushions: Old World Diamonds, Jewels by Grace, Single Stone, LAD, and LaurenB Jewelry
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[DiamondXXX]

Honestly, Leon is the master of proportion! My all time favorite french cut with a cushion diamond was Wintotty's Leon. I have had both an AVC and 2 antique cushions and all I have to say is that let your eyes pic what you prefer as far as faceting. My last antique cushion isn't perfect by any means in terms of light return, but it was pretty stinking close to perfection and I loved how the perfectly imperfect facets worked together to make a spectacular colored light display. I personally prefer 2-3 carat cushions for this look, but it's not what about we prefer, but what you want!


Some other vendors for antique cushions: Old World Diamonds, Jewels by Grace, Single Stone, LAD, and LaurenB Jewelry
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Thank you for your reply Resonance.of.life! I feel it exactly like you mention - my mind always returns to the Leon Mege pieces, and each of them is just spectacular and iconic. I find his designs fluid and balanced and such a ring is a complex matter, all parts need to fit. Each time I try to find another setting I feel like making a compromise. So your advice would be to go with him, but don't settle on a stone until I am not sure it is the one? Even though they will try to tell me I should trust their eye, just to keep on searching and even if it won't be AGS ideal I will love it?

When looking at the other vendors for cushions you suggested - do you think Leon would collaborate with any of them?

Regarding the size, this would be my preference as well. At the same time I could afford it only in very low colors. Here again I guess Leon Mege would deliver the biggest stone (he sort of claims this on his site - that he does not want you to pay all the high-tech and paper-performance and intermediates, but selects what according to his artist eyes and expertise is the best stone directly from the cutters and you can therefore get a bigger diamond.)...

Wintotty's Leon is (was - not sure why she sold it) just out of this world. It is hard to not dream about LM settings once you fall in love with one

Do you guys know about someone who regretted buying the diamond there? Or someone who themselves is happy, but you feel that it actually is not a nice/performing diamond at all?

 

[Mayk]

Victor Canera, Brilliantly Engaged and JbG Erika Winters would be my top three to talk to.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Either Victor's stone and setting or AVC and Steven Kirsch. Those are the only newly cut antique cushions I would consider because they have ideal light return and the others being sold are not as well cut.

 

[DiamondXXX]

Diamondseeker2006 - what do you think about the two cushions I posted as sourced by Mark T - boston jeff's and SunshineRn's? Is it worth to pay for AVC if I can afford let's say only 1.6ct instead of 2ct?

ALSO can anyone give me estimates of the prices for this type of setting by those different vendors? At least a range before I contact all and ask? Maybe I am being completely unreasonable and cannot even afford LM for example. Thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

They are all going to be high for that particular setting. I am sure well over $5k.

Good Old Gold and Victor can access the same cushions that Leon and BE sell and they can tell you how their performance is as there will be more variation in those stones (some may be great and some not good). If you decide to go with the generic newly cut antique cushions, then all you have to do is to determine who you want to make the setting and have them source the stone (or in the case of SK, have GOG source the stone). I think you need a fairly large stone to work well with that setting, so go as large as you can. Look at the examples on PS and see what size the stones were. If you were doing a halo, the size would not matter as much.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Honestly, I have had an AVC (an ideal cut cushion) and several antique cushions and my eyes prefer the antique cuts. For me, the preference is due to an almost clinical look of the AVCs (I prefer the August Vintage Stars over the AVCs). Each antique is truly unique and there will never be another one like it. My 4 carat antique cushion had spectacular light return and the way the facets threw the lights and pastels was simply amazing (I only sold it because I did not want such a large cushion and I wanted a higher color... this may change again, however.).

I haven't heard of Leon not working with a client's stone (barring the AVCs), but I think he gives a discount for the setting if you get the diamond through him. Perry Chen used to work as Leon's diamond concierge and he has started his own business (per other threads on PS). He might be a good one to talk to as well. My antique diamonds have all come from either Jewels by Grace, Old World Diamonds , or the now disbanded Jewels by Erica Grace.

 

[Acinom]

What an exciting project! I have a ring with french cut sides myself from Victor and am thrilled with it. I also have a ring with a small Paraiba with a straight shank with french cuts from Leon.

In terms of pricing: it's best to ask for quotes from the vendors directly as prices may have changed. In 2013 I requested some quotes. I have a 5.3 ct OEC; a smaller stone lowers the price.
Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera make the setting for 8.500 USD. Leon for 11.000 USD.
Leon uses high dome frenchies. Steven and Victor use regular frenchies. Both may source high dome as well at a higher price.

Steven could not source lower coloured frenchies. Victor and Leon can, but please check in advance: it's much easier to source higher colours.

PSer Michelez had her ring made by David Klass and personally I would contact him. His prices are about 4.000 - 4.500 USD. This was for a large center stone.

Leon and Victor's rings have quite a different signature!!
Leon's style is romantic and fluent. He sets the stone quite low. This is actually the reason why Wintotty sold hers: she could not get used to the low setting. Personally her ring is one of my old time favourites.

Victor's style is more art deco, geometric. Also a lovely style and I love mine!!

I think David can do both styles. The ring he made for Michelez is modeled after mine, but David can do many styles.

If money would have been no issue, I would have advised to contact Leon. There is just something about his proportions (though not everyone loves how low he sets the center stone). I would now consider David Klass.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ohh, I forgot about David Klass! I'd personally go with Victor, but DK offers very good value when the budget doesn't allow the others. I have had a setting by Leon before and disliked the stone being set too low and eventually changed the setting, as well.

Some good sources of antique stones have already been mentioned, but I wanted to add Erica of Love Affair Diamonds.

Every cushion is different. Even the newly cut ones are still hand cut and every stone is unique. I think buying one without seeing and comparing some is very hard. The ideal would be to see the ideal cut cushions next to the newly cut generic cushions and some antique cushions (OMBs). That would be the way to really know what you loved. But again, they are all different. I do not love every antique cushion of any of the types I have mentioned. I love some and dislike others. You just really have to judge each stone with the others available at the time.

 

[DiamondXXX]

Thank you Diamondseeker2006 - I will think it through, whom to work with. It's just like it was said a couple of times on this forum, for the stone search I do not want to keep several parties busy, it is not fair. For catalogue inventory I can check myself (like I am doing for example in the case of GOG AVCs regularly), and make a pre-selection... but for generic search I simply have to ask someone to take action based on my specs. I have heard a lot great about Mark T and his cushions, about his experience and expertise. That is why I thought I would go with him. You still think even then GOG is better even when we talk about the same accessible diamond stock and they will be better at evaluating and presenting the performance for me?

Also, I feel there is a HUGE difference between these newly cut stones and the vintage ones, plus the way vendors like JbG, Erica, Diamonds by Lauren or World Old Diamonds present their inventory. For me I can say which diamond's facetting I like, but still even after seeing 20 pictures holding the diamond in tweezers I would not dare to judge its performance . And when I see on the certificate polish good, symmetry fair etc. it scares me even though it maybe means nothing ignificantly bad. I think I can understand Leon Mege's view as well, who says when based on computer calculated light performance a bathroom mirror is the best diamond. I think that is why he does not like the AVCs - because he believes the whole technical paperwork and certified ideal levels is made more important than the human eye and esthetics (which he is proud of) and while it (the AGS paper) can be a good tool, the rest should not be dismissed or other stones being regarded as not well performing.

Regarding size, this is part of the equasion - I want to get back to Acinom's comment - about the quotes. I would love LM, but I AM on a budget (plus there are always new desires, so what I save I can spend on something else )... so if I can get a gorgeous (?) ring setting for 4K by David Klass and spend the remaining 7k on the center stone it makes a HUGE difference for me (and the stone).

BTW, thanks so much for helping me with all your advice!!!

 

[DiamondXXX]

Honestly, I have had an AVC (an ideal cut cushion) and several antique cushions and my eyes prefer the antique cuts. For me, the preference is due to an almost clinical look of the AVCs (I prefer the August Vintage Stars over the AVCs). Each antique is truly unique and there will never be another one like it. My 4 carat antique cushion had spectacular light return and the way the facets threw the lights and pastels was simply amazing (I only sold it because I did not want such a large cushion and I wanted a higher color... this may change again, however.).

I haven't heard of Leon not working with a client's stone (barring the AVCs), but I think he gives a discount for the setting if you get the diamond through him. Perry Chen used to work as Leon's diamond concierge and he has started his own business (per other threads on PS). He might be a good one to talk to as well. My antique diamonds have all come from either Jewels by Grace, Old World Diamonds , or the now disbanded Jewels by Erica Grace.

Thank you Resonance.Of.Life. Like I already wrote to Diamondseeker's comment, I find it very hard to evaluate the vintage diamonds sold by vendors like JbG, Erica, Diamonds by Lauren or World Old Diamonds. I can say which diamond's facetting I like, but still even after seeing 20 pictures holding the diamond in tweezers I would not dare to judge its performance . And when I see on the certificate polish good, symmetry fair etc. it scares me even though it maybe means nothing ignificantly bad. Do you maybe have some advice on how to approach such diamonds, what to look for, how to evaluate these on distance???

I think if I get a diamond via someone else and have not decided still on the setting, I will still try to approach LM. I will not mention when and where did I get the diamond, just contact him saying I have a diamond I want to set, this is the setting I like - can you please give me a quote and set it please? So avoiding the explanations of who sold it to me and why I did not go via the LM diamond ambassador. Either he will accept, or he will say no.

 

[DiamondXXX]

What an exciting project! I have a ring with french cut sides myself from Victor and am thrilled with it. I also have a ring with a small Paraiba with a straight shank with french cuts from Leon.

In terms of pricing: it's best to ask for quotes from the vendors directly as prices may have changed. In 2013 I requested some quotes. I have a 5.3 ct OEC; a smaller stone lowers the price.
Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera make the setting for 8.500 USD. Leon for 11.000 USD.
Leon uses high dome frenchies. Steven and Victor use regular frenchies. Both may source high dome as well at a higher price.

Steven could not source lower coloured frenchies. Victor and Leon can, but please check in advance: it's much easier to source higher colours.

PSer Michelez had her ring made by David Klass and personally I would contact him. His prices are about 4.000 - 4.500 USD. This was for a large center stone.

Leon and Victor's rings have quite a different signature!!
Leon's style is romantic and fluent. He sets the stone quite low. This is actually the reason why Wintotty sold hers: she could not get used to the low setting. Personally her ring is one of my old time favourites.

Victor's style is more art deco, geometric. Also a lovely style and I love mine!!

I think David can do both styles. The ring he made for Michelez is modeled after mine, but David can do many styles.

If money would have been no issue, I would have advised to contact Leon. There is just something about his proportions (though not everyone loves how low he sets the center stone). I would now consider David Klass.

Dear Acinom,

your ring is just gorgeous (well, they all are ) I also adore how the warm color of the diamond looks on your skin, it would never shine as much on me! And I had to laugh when I read your post about it since my inner comment to these types of rings with french cuts was always, that they look like liquid diamonds!

Thank you very much for your comment, it helped me so much to get a bit closer to what I envisage - also your explanations on how the style of the two artists LM and VC differs. I still prefer Leon Mege and his smooth, romantic lines. I really would love to have him doing this ring for me (or I am also thinking about a simple solitaire with double prongs). But I am on a budget, and your comment about David Klass sounds exciting. Like I meantioned in my reply to Diamondseeker - if I can get a similar setting (and hope to make it customised to my preference) from David Klass and spend therefore 7.000 USD more on the center stone, it makes a huge difference for me. Can you please tell me for completion, how much the Leon Mege setting for your Paraiba was?

Anyway - I am a bit thinking also that I spend too much time on PS When walking around in Europe/Belgium I never see such big diamonds on people. I desire something which might here look fake or ridiculous. I think already a 1.5ct diamond is here a very rare size... and I am now dreaming for this ring about bigger.

 

[DiamondXXX]

PS: When you compare the ring of David Klass (do you know whether it was hand forged?) and hand forged ERD from my first post (since I guess the price quote for the setting will be in the similar 4-5K range compared to the more expensive VC/SK/LM level), which one do you prefer and why?

Does David Klass have a website? I did not manage to find one.

(Plus I have to see what color center diamond will I use, since like Acinom pointed out, not everyone can source calibrated french cuts should I go for a lower color)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

David Klass has a Facebook page where you can see pictures of a LOT of his work. I think there is contact info there.

Good Old Gold naturally is going to promote the superior features of their AVCs. BUT, I know they can access a couple of big antique stone suppliers as well as the one that BE and Leon use for their chunky cushions. I am pretty sure Victor can as well if you decided to use him. Mark has access to the chunky cushions, but he can't compare them to ideal cut cushions except I think he has a couple of cushions left that were cut by Yoram which may have good light performance but are not really antique style. I personally would use GOG or Victor if you thought you wanted him to make the setting.

I could probably buy an AVC and have it set without seeing the stone first because I have already seen a couple in person. But I would never buy an antique stone without seeing it first. I want sharp facet junctions, no abrasions to facets or anywhere else, excellent visual symmetry, etc. Why? Because a well cut diamond is a well cut diamond no matter how old it is. I do not require perfect light performance on an antique cut, but I want a stone cut by a master diamond cutter no matter what. If you look at antique Tiffany and Cartier pieces, you can see that their stones were beautifully cut. I would not settle for a wonky cut diamond because there are great ones out there. There are some PSers who have found them, but more often that is true of OECs than antique cushions or OMBs.

I am sorry if I missed this, but do you have a budget for this ring? The budget would have a LOT to do with what I chose for the diamond and who I chose for the setting.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

Honestly, I have had an AVC (an ideal cut cushion) and several antique cushions and my eyes prefer the antique cuts. For me, the preference is due to an almost clinical look of the AVCs (I prefer the August Vintage Stars over the AVCs). Each antique is truly unique and there will never be another one like it. My 4 carat antique cushion had spectacular light return and the way the facets threw the lights and pastels was simply amazing (I only sold it because I did not want such a large cushion and I wanted a higher color... this may change again, however.).

I haven't heard of Leon not working with a client's stone (barring the AVCs), but I think he gives a discount for the setting if you get the diamond through him. Perry Chen used to work as Leon's diamond concierge and he has started his own business (per other threads on PS). He might be a good one to talk to as well. My antique diamonds have all come from either Jewels by Grace, Old World Diamonds , or the now disbanded Jewels by Erica Grace.

Thank you Resonance.Of.Life. Like I already wrote to Diamondseeker's comment, I find it very hard to evaluate the vintage diamonds sold by vendors like JbG, Erica, Diamonds by Lauren or World Old Diamonds. I can say which diamond's facetting I like, but still even after seeing 20 pictures holding the diamond in tweezers I would not dare to judge its performance . And when I see on the certificate polish good, symmetry fair etc. it scares me even though it maybe means nothing ignificantly bad. Do you maybe have some advice on how to approach such diamonds, what to look for, how to evaluate these on distance???

I think if I get a diamond via someone else and have not decided still on the setting, I will still try to approach LM. I will not mention when and where did I get the diamond, just contact him saying I have a diamond I want to set, this is the setting I like - can you please give me a quote and set it please? So avoiding the explanations of who sold it to me and why I did not go via the LM diamond ambassador. Either he will accept, or he will say no.

I think seeing the antique stones in person is the best way to judge what "flavor" best suits your preferences. After several years of having 3 different antique cushions, I can say for sure based on pics and videos (videos help the best) which antique stones to have sent to me for viewing. The good polish and fair symmetry aren't necessarily bad things. I have attached the GIA report and the pic of my antique cushion along with it's ASET. Honestly, it's the best performing antique I've ever seen and it blows all my other diamonds out of the water in terms of how the slightly imperfect faceting really gives the diamond such light play and throws all sorts of colors.

Asking him for a quote without a solid idea of diamond size is going to change the quote... there might be a significant increase between a 2 carat and a 3 carat cushion for that setting because the french cuts are cut for that specific stone for that dreamy liquid graduation he does.




http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

 

[Acinom]

Hi there!
Personally I love all the french cut rings. It's a matter of personal preference. It will be best to look at as many pictures and video's as you can. Michelez's thread with the David Klass ring has a video.

Please note that small changes create a totally different look for these rings. For example polished vs milgraining. Or melee on the prongs vs plain or engraved or a bezelled frenchie.

I would not make assumptions on ERD/BE pricing without asking them first. I found that their pricepoint is higher compared to David Klass. It could also be that the BE ring is handforged while David's ring is casted but hand finished?

The price for the straight Paraiba setting was 7.000 USD. As the conversion rate was better for us, I paid around 5000 euro. Now it would be almost 7000 euro... I really wanted this Paraiba as well as an LM setting but if I zoom out I find the setting pricing ridiculously high. VC makes a 3.2 mm and 2.3 mm straight version. The 3.2 VC version is around 5.500 USD? Let me see if I can find a pic.
If you would opt for this design, I would also shop around. BE made a beautiful version for Arcadian and David can possibly make this setting for a good price as well.

 

[Acinom]

VC's straight shank ring with french cuts. This is the 3.2 mm version

 

[Acinom]

BE's straight shank version

 

[Acinom]

Leon's straight shank ring for Missy Debby. I love these proportions!!

Last but not least: you could also consider using carre's instead of french cut's. The frenchies are very very special though.

 

[DiamondXXX]

Thank you everyone for your posts. The kids are sick, so diamonds are not on my mind right now. Will be back soon a great thanks especially to Acinom for the amazing help and overview!!!

 

[Acinom]

Thank you everyone for your posts. The kids are sick, so diamonds are not on my mind right now. Will be back soon a great thanks especially to Acinom for the amazing help and overview!!!

You are so welcome
Sorry to hear your kids are not feeling well. Hope they feel better soon. Happy nursing

 

[DiamondXXX]

Hi everyone, I am back (even though right now considering an Asscher from DBL in another threat which I discovered while learning more about stones cut by Yoram... but wanted to update here as well, since this chapter is also still open).

I have a feedback from Brilliantly Engaged and Mark T allowed me to mention his quote with a certain reservation, since all depends on the center etc, but in general his qoute for a 2 ct center cushion was along the lines of the price quote Acinom mentioned from David Class (4.8K)... That's pretty decent price to be honest... although this was for a version without any additional work like melee etc, just a simple version with 7 french cuts on each side.

So I guess BE would be me choice for setting should I go for a Chaderlier cushion from them or the AVC... Which all leads back to my budget. I was already toying with the idea of purchasing this OEC from JbG since it would give me the desired center size and leave enough for the setting, but I am worried about the issues diamondseeker2006 raised on vintage diamonds and I still prefer a cushion shape for the ring ( http://jewelsbygrace.smugmug.com/Loose-Diamonds/201-and-larger/248ct-Old-European-Cut/ What do you think about the diamond???) BTW VC's price quote for french cut Sophia for this particular OEC stone was just slightly above 7K. ... But if I go for AVC I either have to go low in color, probably down to L and still will not pass the 2ct mark with my current budget Maybe that is what tempted me towards the 2.5ct L colored Asscher ) I am so not sure which direction to take... thanks everyone for all your support so far.

 

[Acinom]

What an exciting process for you. I have also seen your thread about the search for an Asscher.
Hopefully the diamond experts will chime in soon to review the OEC. To my untrained eye it looks really nice. Also, you might accept a warmer tint in an OEC but to a lesser extent in a step cut diamond?