Cushion Cut - Help Needed

[Tydruk]

Hi to everybody,

After a very long and unsuccessful diamond "hunt" I have decided to look for the help from you guys.
After two years we have established that Cushion Cut diamond is the one that suits my fingers the best, but the problem is that we have not been able to find the diamond we would like to have. We are based in UK, but if needed then we would purchase the diamond from US if we found the ideal one.

The diamond specifications are:

Shape: Cushion
Key Measurements: Length to width ratio of between 1.10-1.15 and the long side being around 5.2mm.
Cut: Excellent
Carat: 1 to 1.3 or 1.5
Colour: E, F, G
Clarity: VVS1 or VVS2
Price: up to £12 000

We would appreciate any help from you guys.

Kind regards,
K

 

[JulieN]

What kind of cushion do you want? Chunky or modern? Crushed ice?

 

[HoratioNelson]

I just purchased a cushion in London (spent months going through various Hatton Garden and other retailers)... just over 1.5ct with a simialr ratio, F colour although VS clarity.

I think you'll find one easily for £12,000. Though it's a bit confusing as to what you're looking for in a stone. Here's why.

Unless I'm missing something, having the longer side measure 5.2mm means that it will be approx 5.20mm x 4.72mm (1.10 ratio) or 5.20mm x 4.52mm (1.15 ratio). If you take the latter example, you could actually get those dimensions with a 0.61ct stone - see http://www.77diamonds.com/certification_CUSCPZ5K6BGSX.html for example. And that is under £1,500...

If you have that sort of budget and are really looking to spend five figures of GPB, you need to think what is most important to you in a stone. For me, it was going for at least an F colour - it seems sensible in a stone like a cushion, as they are not so forgiving with colour (compared to, say, a round brilliant).

As I'm sure you realise, having your eyes set on a VVS clarity does involve paying quite a premium and, at this level, it is a much less visible difference than colour. To me, a G VVS1/VS2 stone is (in my humble opinion) less preferable to an E or F VS1/VS2.

For £12k you could of course get an E VVS1 (top colour and clarity you're after) of around 1.3ct, or even a D IF to be honest.

 

[kathness]

Hi OP- what kind of cushions are you looking for?

I would suggest that you read through one of Charmypoo's post.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/[/URL]

really insightful

£12000 = $18500 according to today's exchange rate... is your budget for the diamond alone?

GOG - had this diamond but its already been sold. but this will gives you an idea of what a antique cushion diamond looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1oyEOSo9YY

Another helpful video around Modern Vs Antique cushion from GOG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh7K7iaZRQU


In addition

I just purchased a cushion in London (spent months going through various Hatton Garden and other retailers)... just over 1.5ct with a simialr ratio, F colour although VS clarity.

I think you'll find one easily for £12,000. Though it's a bit confusing as to what you're looking for in a stone. Here's why.

Unless I'm missing something, having the longer side measure 5.2mm means that it will be approx 5.20mm x 4.72mm (1.10 ratio) or 5.20mm x 4.52mm (1.15 ratio). If you take the latter example, you could actually get those dimensions with a 0.61ct stone - see http://www.77diamonds.com/certification_CUSCPZ5K6BGSX.html for example. And that is under £1,500...

If you have that sort of budget and are really looking to spend five figures of GPB, you need to think what is most important to you in a stone. For me, it was going for at least an F colour - it seems sensible in a stone like a cushion, as they are not so forgiving with colour (compared to, say, a round brilliant).

As I'm sure you realise, having your eyes set on a VVS clarity does involve paying quite a premium and, at this level, it is a much less visible difference than colour. To me, a G VVS1/VS2 stone is (in my humble opinion) less preferable to an E or F VS1/VS2.

For £12k you could of course get an E VVS1 (top colour and clarity you're after) of around 1.3ct, or even a D IF to be honest.

a couple of my friends have recently bought from 77 diamonds the prices are decent from what i remember

Looking at 77diamonds the following diamonds seem to come up within the criterias you specified.

Carat Col. Clar. Cut Cert. L/W Price
1.24 F VVS1 Excellent GIA 1.12 £ 6,697.37
1.53 E VVS2 Excellent GIA 1.14 £ 9,179.65


i would agree that going down to VS1/VS2 clarity is also my preference but hey, if the VVS1/VVS2 is what you want and you have the funds for it, why not? ultimately you have to be happy with your purchase have fun shopping!


I would definitely suggest that you email GOG and tell them your preference as sometimes they don't always list all their stone online.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondSearch.php

email david or john

[email protected]

 

[Tydruk]

Thanks for the response JulieN.

I have a preference for modern cushion cut with no culet.

 

[Tydruk]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply HoratioNelson; didn't quite expect something back that soon.

You make some very valid comments and observations, like you my preference is is for a better colour D-F than for perfect clarity as it is, after all, for jewellery purposes and not really investment. As a starting point I would look at something in the VVS1 - VVS2 range and am happy to change that given the advice being offered here but would find that difficult without having some of diamonds to look at side-by-side for comparison; I haven't yet found anyone that could offer me this as these aren't the stones that suppliers keep a handful of. Is there maybe value in doing a trip to Antwerp to find this if I have no joy in Hatton Gardens?

Your comments on the actual dimensions are true in that they can be met by a smaller stone, maybe I got the initial dimensions wrong and should have said a stone with dimensions in the region of 5.9 x 5.2 but more important that overall dimensions the ratio is what is more important to me and what suits me, hence the 1.10 - 1.15 guideline.

As mentioned in the reply to JulieN, I prefer modern cushion to vintage with no culet.

Thanks for the link to 77diamonds, I'll have a look around on that website. So far I have concentrated on Bluenile and Union Diamonds in the states.

 

[JulieN]

Do you mean the short side should be 5.2? Or something else? a 6.0 x 5.2 is not close to 1.3 cts.

 

[Tydruk]

Thanks for the reply Kathness, looked at the videos and they are pretty dreamy. It's quite amazing just what one can learn by viewing diamonds when they are being compared side-by-side like that rather than a GIA certificate. I suppose that is the risk when looking on-line for diamonds rather than in a jewellers. If I could my ideal scenario would be to go into a manufacturing jeweller, have him present me with five stones that match my criteria and then pick one and say set it. Alas not so easy with the fancy cuts. I had already picked up on the modern vs. antique debate in the rings and diamonds I have already looked at (probably in excess of 50).

The budget is about right just although I am not set at having to spend all of it to be happy; common sense still has to reign. Given my fingers and what I have in mind the proportions, colour and dimensions are what are important.... not that it is bigger and costs more. The value is in the aesthetics, not the cost.

I'll e-mail John or David.

If money can be saved getting it from the US then that can also be a good thing.

 

[Tydruk]

Do you mean the short side should be 5.2? Or something else? a 6.0 x 5.2 is not close to 1.3 cts.

You are right, 6.7 x 6.0 is around 1.3 cts, depending on depth.

 

[HoratioNelson]

I can't comment on Antwerp - although the stone I got came from there, it was brought in by a dealer for me who is based in Hatton Garden. If you were to go on a trip to Antwerp, I imagine it could be a bit logistically tricky - i.e. you have to buy a diamond there and then or it's a wasted trip, whereas if you deal with someone in the UK in person, you can make a number of visits to the stone/other retailers over a longer period of time. Also, when you find a stone you like, do you bring it back in person (consider having to pay VAT at customers on top of any taxes charged in Antwerp (?)

I'd say that you should be a little bit cautious about Hatton Garden, in terms of getting a good deal. I got my stone off a family friend who is based there, so it was fine (i.e. he is trustworthy and gave a decent price). However, if you walk into any random shop there (even the ones which look reputable), it can feel a bit like a tourist trap (even if you are a Londonder/UK resident).

As it is the ratio which it seems you are most keen to get perfect, in the 1.10 to 1.15 range, you should also bear in mind that not every place in Hatton Garden (if many at all) will quickly grasp the concept of the ratio or have it ready to hand as a number for each stone. I would frequently get out my iPhone, stick it in calculator mode and work out the ratio of each stone by asking them for the relevant dimensions.

77Diamonds are a good option I think. They are based around Mayfair (Hanover Sq). I paid them a visit and viewed 4 cushions, but ultimately didn't go for a stone from them. They can only show you cushions which are available in London (and these stones typically have a 15% premium compared with stones in their database which are located overseas). While they can bring in stones overseas for you, you have to actually buy the stone for them to do this (but they do have a good returns policy if you don't like the stone, for whatever reason, when it reaches their office in the UK. You'll see online that they have an advanced search which lets you narrow search results for cushions by ratio. I much preferred them to most of the people I dealt with in Hatton Garden.

I considered buying from the US (Good Old Gold), and while they are a first class vendor, my fiancee wasn't keen on being bought a stone on a transatlantic basis.

 

[kathness]

My partner and I have visited Antwerp they add 21% VAT on top of the stone. Antwerp is very similar to Hatton Garden you really need to get some recommendations before you go there. You don't need to pay an additional UK VAT if you have already paid Belgium tax.

Because of the exchange rate between pounds and euro we found that the price difference were very marginal! US prices are a lot more competitive.


http://www.luciecampbell.com/ on Bond streets make some beautiful rings!

DiamondPalace - competitive prices my friend recently bought a ring from them, custom made etc. beautiful cushion cut diamond They use CADs.

Beautiful modern cushion from GOG

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10234/


ERD - All diamonds are within you specs. request for them to give you some aset images and pictures.

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.51-carat-f-vvs1-very-good-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-115638.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.20-carat-e-vvs1-very-good-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-68714.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.21-carat-e-vvs2-excellent-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-51169.html

 

[Tydruk]

I can't comment on Antwerp - although the stone I got came from there, it was brought in by a dealer for me who is based in Hatton Garden. If you were to go on a trip to Antwerp, I imagine it could be a bit logistically tricky - i.e. you have to buy a diamond there and then or it's a wasted trip, whereas if you deal with someone in the UK in person, you can make a number of visits to the stone/other retailers over a longer period of time. Also, when you find a stone you like, do you bring it back in person (consider having to pay VAT at customers on top of any taxes charged in Antwerp (?)

I'd say that you should be a little bit cautious about Hatton Garden, in terms of getting a good deal. I got my stone off a family friend who is based there, so it was fine (i.e. he is trustworthy and gave a decent price). However, if you walk into any random shop there (even the ones which look reputable), it can feel a bit like a tourist trap (even if you are a Londonder/UK resident).

As it is the ratio which it seems you are most keen to get perfect, in the 1.10 to 1.15 range, you should also bear in mind that not every place in Hatton Garden (if many at all) will quickly grasp the concept of the ratio or have it ready to hand as a number for each stone. I would frequently get out my iPhone, stick it in calculator mode and work out the ratio of each stone by asking them for the relevant dimensions.

77Diamonds are a good option I think. They are based around Mayfair (Hanover Sq). I paid them a visit and viewed 4 cushions, but ultimately didn't go for a stone from them. They can only show you cushions which are available in London (and these stones typically have a 15% premium compared with stones in their database which are located overseas). While they can bring in stones overseas for you, you have to actually buy the stone for them to do this (but they do have a good returns policy if you don't like the stone, for whatever reason, when it reaches their office in the UK. You'll see online that they have an advanced search which lets you narrow search results for cushions by ratio. I much preferred them to most of the people I dealt with in Hatton Garden.

I considered buying from the US (Good Old Gold), and while they are a first class vendor, my fiancee wasn't keen on being bought a stone on a transatlantic basis.

Thanks for the reply HoratioNelson.

I have done a little more reading and research about Antwerp and have decided that I probably won't bother with going down that route. I could probably get what I need in Hatton Gardens without having to trek all the way to Anwerp.

You wouldn't be prepared to divulge the name of your "family friend" would you? If they are a trustworthy person then that would be a good place for me to start. I grew up where I knew my local jeweller and the sight of Hatton Gardens and it's multitude of shops is a bit daunting. I am sure that there will be reputable dealers there, the question is to find them and a personal reference sometimes helps.

Whilst 77 diamonds don't list what I am looking for, I think I may well decide to make a visit over there, thanks for the advice. I like the fact that you got to see 4 stones and so that you could make a physical comparison. It is for this reason that I'll probably, for now at least, not look much more at the US sites until I have seen more stones. Maybe using them to get a comparative prices is the best initially to do some check pricing.

Thanks for the other advice, your time and effort is much appreciated.

 

[Tydruk]

My partner and I have visited Antwerp they add 21% VAT on top of the stone. Antwerp is very similar to Hatton Garden you really need to get some recommendations before you go there. You don't need to pay an additional UK VAT if you have already paid Belgium tax.

Because of the exchange rate between pounds and euro we found that the price difference were very marginal! US prices are a lot more competitive.


http://www.luciecampbell.com/ on Bond streets make some beautiful rings!

DiamondPalace - competitive prices my friend recently bought a ring from them, custom made etc. beautiful cushion cut diamond They use CADs.

Beautiful modern cushion from GOG

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10234/


ERD - All diamonds are within you specs. request for them to give you some aset images and pictures.

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.51-carat-f-vvs1-very-good-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-115638.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.20-carat-e-vvs1-very-good-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-68714.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.21-carat-e-vvs2-excellent-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-51169.html

Again, thanks for your advice Kathness.

I had a look at the websites that you kindly provided links for. Engagement Rings Direct seems like a very good site, a pity they are so far away from London!! I will ask them for some pictures, thanks for the advice. As mentioned in response to HoratioNelson... I would ideally like to physically look at a number of diamonds but alas it seems like cushion cut stones are few and far between.

 

[HoratioNelson]

Tydruk - I would share the name of this family friend; however, I would feel a bit anxious doing it over a public forum (and I imagine he would too!).

Happy to divulge it some other way (but don't want to give out my personal or work contact details on here either). Will try to set up some anonymous email address for any such communication to take place (if that's not against forum rules?)...

 

[Tydruk]

Tydruk - I would share the name of this family friend; however, I would feel a bit anxious doing it over a public forum (and I imagine he would too!).

Happy to divulge it some other way (but don't want to give out my personal or work contact details on here either). Will try to set up some anonymous email address for any such communication to take place (if that's not against forum rules?)...

Hi HoratioNelson,

I am happy to leave my e-mail address for you if you do not mind sending me the details. I spent long hours in Hatton Garden this week and 99% of the people I spoke to weren't very trustworthy, so I am finding it hard to give my money to someone, who might con me regarding this very special purchase. I was also trying to go through various posts to see if anyone had some good recommendations about the people in Hatton Garden, but not many suggestions really. I did have a good experience in Raphael, but I do not know anyone who has purchased anything from there. I got quotes from many places, but Raphael's quote was so much lower than anyone else's, which again makes me doubt about it.

I am not aware whether you are allowed to give your email address in this forum. I am a relatively new user. I will read the terms and conditions and then come back to you.

Thank you

 

[04diamond<3]

Tydruk - I would share the name of this family friend; however, I would feel a bit anxious doing it over a public forum (and I imagine he would too!).

Happy to divulge it some other way (but don't want to give out my personal or work contact details on here either). Will try to set up some anonymous email address for any such communication to take place (if that's not against forum rules?)...

It is....

 

[Tydruk]

Tydruk - I would share the name of this family friend; however, I would feel a bit anxious doing it over a public forum (and I imagine he would too!).

Happy to divulge it some other way (but don't want to give out my personal or work contact details on here either). Will try to set up some anonymous email address for any such communication to take place (if that's not against forum rules?)...

Hi HoartioNelson,

I understand that you are not allowed to give any personal details in the forum and the only acceptable way to communicate is in the public forum. Sad now