crown/pavilion angles, and online vs brick and mortar

[reed_nate21]

Hello-
I keep hearing about crown and pavilion angles being really important, but I can not find what an "ideal" angle or range of angles is for a princess cut diamond. I''m looking for a loose diamond for an engagement ring around .50 carat. The leader right now is this one.

Price: $1,422.00
Shape: Princess
Carat: 0.52
Cut: Ideal
Color: E
Clarity: VVS2
Depth: 66.3%
Table: 68.00%
Symmetry: Very Good
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.55mm x 4.51mm x 2.99mm

I don''t know the crown or pavilion angles, but I think I can email to get them. Does this diamond look good for the price? It is from a verified online dealer. This is my first diamond purchase and I still am deciding whether to go local with a peerless/hearts on fire, or online with a diamond with Ideal specifications. ANY help is appreciated. Thank you very much.

-Nate

 

[Sparkalicious]

Hi Reed Nate -- Welcome!

Unfortunately, I do not know much about princess cut diamonds, however, in researching my own diamond info, I did happen to find some info about Princesses. I will paste links for you so that you can check them out and see if you can find some info and gain some more knowledge for your purchase.
Have never heard about C & P angles for a princess as I have heard about them in rounds but then again, as mentioned, I don't know much about this particular shape.

Click here and here for info.

Some PS approved online vendors include Whiteflash and Good Old Gold. If you visit their websites, you are bound to gain more princess knowledge as well!

Good luck with your search!

*edited to add * Love the E color ... if you wanted or need to reduce the price at all, you may consider coming down to the VS range as all inclusions, at this clarity level, should not be visible to the unaided eye.

 

[nolimits]

My girl likes the princess cut as well so I''m in the same boat. The short & sweet is that fancy cuts such as princess means there is no "fast & hard" rule of specs that guarantee a great cut princess. Here is a link to the Pricescope range of values for the various grades of cuts.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc1.asp

In short the table is a key factor, 62-68% is ideal. Combine this with the right depth, 64-75% and you are off to a good start. Polish is a big factor as well. Now just because you "numerically" have a princess cut that is supposed to be ideal, it doesn''t mean it. Rather shopping online or in a B&M, ask for the Idealscope, ASET and the Brillantscope/Gemex reports. More info on each of these reports available at these links:

http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_fancy.asp

http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart_ASET.asp

http://www.gemex.com/htmdocs/consumer/index2.html

If these reports check out good, you can have some assurance you are buying one of the best cut diamonds you have probably ever seen. Technically you should have table, depth, etc. values comparable to those values listed in the "ideal" range of the chart I first linked; however, I''ve seen princess cuts score really well in these 3 reports that wasn''t "ideal" according to that chart. I guess that is part of what makes the princess cut a "fancy cut diamond" and harder to determine than a round stone.

Not all online or B&M sellers will offer all these reports. I know GoodOldGold.com have them listed rather consistently on most their stones. Some are listed on Whiteflash, but usually by request (at least in my price range) and the majority at James Allen is by request as well. But those are 3 online vendors I''d consider. Also there is a 4th option, Winfield''s, that I recently encounted. Wink Jones is the owner and is active in this forum and others. I just started working with him but he seems very honest thus far which carries alot of weight with me.

Anyhow, hope this helps you a bit. Try getting some of those reports I listed above and post them back here so everyone can look at them and help you better determine if this is the "steal" it appears to be.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Nolimits,

You are offering good advice, but it is too restricted.

You are extremely strict in the good table size, and way incorrect in the depth. As far as that last part is concerned, I would advise depth being at least 70%, and if the stone has an AGS-grade (thus it is cut according to AGS-proportion-sets), depths under 75% should definitely be looked into.

In fact, if the stone has an AGS-grade, the whole princess-proportion-reference-chart should be disregarded.

Princess-cuts are a difficult stone to give absolute advice on.

Live long,

 

[Regular Guy]

A new paradigm has been presented....(here).

The idea, I suppose...is that technology is helpful...but not helpful enough.

Maybe not a totally new pair of dimes (paradigm).

But...a subtle twist. An expert is needed. A really good expert, for fancies, essential.

It's been said before.

The cosmic battles are in process.

But, I feel something is happening here.

 

[diagem]

Date: 1/23/2008 9:32:40 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Nolimits,

You are offering good advice, but it is too restricted.

You are extremely strict in the good table size, and way incorrect in the depth. As far as that last part is concerned, I would advise depth being at least 70%, and if the stone has an AGS-grade (thus it is cut according to AGS-proportion-sets), depths under 75% should definitely be looked into.

In fact, if the stone has an AGS-grade, the whole princess-proportion-reference-chart should be disregarded.

Princess-cuts are a difficult stone to give absolute advice on.

Live long,

If you are looking into Princess cut to AGS-proportion-sets..., disregard my comments...

But if you are looking for a beautiful Princess Cut Diamond..., I have seen plenty great Princesses that were well below 70% total depth''s.
As far as table % is concern..., I too prefer smaller table''s... (my personal preference..., under 70%)

I believe you can find amazing Princess Cuts that spread out nicely due to a lower depth. The fact that Princess Cuts are not cut with high crown angles means to me they can be cut to lower depths!

Again..., I am not to familiar with all the tools used to measure light return etc..., etc..., but I do know I have seen plenty of beautiful Princess cuts which would fall out of range of the AGS "perfect" cut grade...

 

[oldminer]

Internet vendors really need to have parameters to help them sell diamonds to people who have not looked directly at the diamonds. B&M stores rely less upon parameters because you actually can see the diamond when you shop with them in their stores. AGS has a system which created a very lovely, but somewhat unusually cut, princess stone which does not do well in terms of the AGA Cut Class parameters, but does , in fact, do well with light behavior.

This is a good indication that parameters alone can't do the entire shopping job, but neither can buying blindly based on an AGS grade alone do the trick. There are MANY very lovely looking princess cuts which are not in the top cut range. They may have detriments of importance, or detriments of very little importance. By the numbers, a downgrade may seem uniform, but it isn't. Any pre-examination screening you may do with parameters still eventually comes to looking at the diamond.

The angles are not used a lot for any fancy shape because the opposite sides of square and rectangles may match, but with adjoining sides there may be a large difference. With curved side, fancy shaped diamonds, one has a continuum of angles to deal with, not a single angle. There would be nothing gained by using averages, only more confusion. For this reason we use crown height and pavilion depth simply based on width to depth relationships. It is highly simplistic, but serves the purpose for most diamonds very nicely.

 

[nolimits]

Date: 1/23/2008 9:32:40 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Nolimits,

You are offering good advice, but it is too restricted.

You are extremely strict in the good table size, and way incorrect in the depth. As far as that last part is concerned, I would advise depth being at least 70%, and if the stone has an AGS-grade (thus it is cut according to AGS-proportion-sets), depths under 75% should definitely be looked into.

In fact, if the stone has an AGS-grade, the whole princess-proportion-reference-chart should be disregarded.

Princess-cuts are a difficult stone to give absolute advice on.

Live long,

By no means was I trying to be restrictive, I was just reading a chart and stating the properties AGS uses when determining an ideal cut. I do agree that you can find some absolutely beautiful cut princess diamonds that DO NOT match that chart. Been there, done that. That''s why I mentioned the other 3 reports (Idealscope, ASET & Gemscope) to really help get a "feel" for the cut of the diamond before you actually see it. I am a very visual person and actually find these reports better than the chart. But I''ve found if these 3 reports look good, most the time the values match the "ideal" range in the chart too....but NOT always.

So it goes back to the fact we have some good information to help us find something that MAY be a great cut diamond. At this point a visual inspection is required. When buying online, call the place and have them visually inspect for you. Most are happy to do it. If it checks out have them send it to you and do your own visual. Be familiar with their return policy and send it back if it''s not to your expectations. If it''s a local store, go take a peek.

Again, there is no "fast & hard" rule for determining great cut princess diamonds, only some strong indicators.