Crown of light diamond

[AprilBaby]

I just came back from a week in the Caribbean where the proprietary "crown of light" diamond is everywhere. My table mate had at least a dozen of them, rings, earrings, pendants...all I had were my ACA's. I had to listen all week why hers were better because they were 60-70 percent off ( of what???) and bigger than mine. She buys one every cruise. I remember a past thread but can't find it. Can anyone refresh me? They were HUGE but I was not impressed . I was more pissed she was looking down on my beauties.

 

[Karl_K]

90 facet round by Diamonds International.
http://www.crownoflight.com/index.cfm

do a google search for Diamonds International scam.

 

[Karl_K]

WT*:
"We offer outreach programs to familiarize appraisers with the Crown of Light so that they can provide the best services to their clientele. Appraisers whose names and business contacts appear on our site have shown excellence in their field by attending our training and orientation presentations. We highly recommend that owners of Crown Of Light avail themselves of their appraisal services."
http://www.crownoflight.com/diamond_appraisingCOL.cfm

Free cruise if you drink the cool-aid anyone?
Who would trust an appraiser trained by the seller?

 

[Karl_K]

Then when you go to the appraisers page they list:
http://www.crownoflight.com/find_appraiser.cfm

Find a Qualified Crown of Light® Appraiser
We recommend that you contact one of these organizations for a list of independent, professionally-trained appraisers in your city:

AAA (American Association of Appraisers)
386 Park Ave. So. S 2000
New York, NY 10016
212-889-5404

American Gem Society
8881 West Sahara Ave.
Las Vegas, NV 89117
702-255 6500

International Society of Appraisers
16040 Christensen Rd. Ste 103
Seattle, WA 98188-2929
206-241 0359
www.isa-appraisers.org

Appraisal Foundation
1029 Vermont Ave. NW S 900
Washington, DC 20005
202-347 7722
www.appraisalfoundation.org

American Society of Appraisers
555 Herndon Parkway, S 125
Herndon, VA 20170
703-478 2228
www.appraisers.org

Nat'l Association of Jewelry Appraisers
P.O. Box 18
Rego Park, NY 11374-0018
718 896 1536
www.najaappraisers.com

 

[AprilBaby]

The cruise representative onboard(aka debeers spokesperson) is "working for me". I saw the presentation on ship tv and it was blatant lies. Don't know how the guy can face himself in the mirror. Lots of dummies listened and bought. Only go to Diamonds international and buy Crown of light". All other sellers and diamonds are junk. They will certify it right there for you. They grade their own diamonds. Superior. ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

 

[AprilBaby]

And btw, they are very willing to take your current diamond and you can use the amt they give you towards a C of L.

 

[Karl_K]

ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

For real?????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[AprilBaby]

ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

For real?????????????????????????????????????????????????

FOR REAL!!!!!!

 

[denverappraiser]

I just came back from a week in the Caribbean where the proprietary "crown of light" diamond is everywhere. My table mate had at least a dozen of them, rings, earrings, pendants...all I had were my ACA's. I had to listen all week why hers were better because they were 60-70 percent off ( of what???) and bigger than mine. She buys one every cruise. I remember a past thread but can't find it. Can anyone refresh me? They were HUGE but I was not impressed . I was more pissed she was looking down on my beauties.

Not everywhere. Only at stores owned by Diamonds International. There just happen to be a lot of those.
I'm glad to hear she's happy, but do not allow her happiness to in any way diminish yours. Some people just have bad manners. This tells you a bit about her, nothing at all about her diamonds, and even less about yours.

 

[denverappraiser]

The cruise representative onboard(aka debeers spokesperson) is "working for me". I saw the presentation on ship tv and it was blatant lies. Don't know how the guy can face himself in the mirror. Lots of dummies listened and bought. Only go to Diamonds international and buy Crown of light". All other sellers and diamonds are junk. They will certify it right there for you. They grade their own diamonds. Superior. ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

The company that teaches those classes and that ‘guarantees’ your purchase is definitely not working for you but they're not working for DeBeers or even the cruise line either. At least not directly. They pay the cruise company for the privilege of having those people on board the ship and they, in turn, charge the recommended stores a commission to be included on their list. It’s a very expensive way to advertise and it’s dominated by a few specific companies. It does seem to be working well for them. Small players can’t afford it and most of the brand name stores, like Cartier for example, don’t find it to be worth the cost. They have a pretty loyal customer base and a hard sell like you describe doesn't suit their style very well.

 

[denverappraiser]

ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

For real?????????????????????????????????????????????????

FOR REAL!!!!!!

Making your beau regret sleeping with you is supposed to help in getting what you want? I guess stranger marketing plans have worked for people but somehow this doesn't seem like a very good idea.

 

[baby monster]

ANd if you husband refuses to buy you the diamond you deserve, (no lie) they sell revenge nail polish. Goes on clear while he sleeps and turns bright red in the sun. Everyone will know he disappointed you!

For real?????????????????????????????????????????????????

FOR REAL!!!!!!

It's good for a prank but probably won't shame hubby into buying diamonds.

http://www.amazon.com/Del-Sol-Changing-Polish-Electrick/dp/B0039KXLRC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

[Modified Brilliant]

"We offer outreach programs to familiarize appraisers with the Crown of Light"

I don't need an "outreach" program.

 

[denverappraiser]

"We offer outreach programs to familiarize appraisers with the Crown of Light"

I don't need an "outreach" program.

No kidding, although I would be interested in knowing what they have to say in this program. I wounder if this is a buzzword for a brochure or if there's an actual class involved. Free booze? That's part of the sales pitch after all.

 

[oldminer]

One of the tactics being employed is to offer a so called "outreach" program to professional appraisal organizations so that principals of DI can come and speak about their Crown of Light diamond at educational sessions. The point of this is to get independent appraisers to become unwitting cooperators in the sellers task of making big money on COL diamond sales. Diamonds International folks are well spoken and seemingly very open with information when they come to speak. I remain skeptical of those who come bearing gifts until I am sure what the agenda is. Some appraisers become very friendly with the outreach efforts and some of us just don't quite find the Kool-Aid equally tasty.

Diamonds Int. offers to advise independent appraisers of their retail selling price on their proprietary stone cut for "free". A very nice offer that major players like Tiffany, etc, will not do. The prices they advise are not competitive with regular cuts, but far higher due to their "brand". However, the stores regularly discount heavily making the amount given to appraisers ridiculously inflated. So many uninformed consumers love feel good reports and confirmation they bought an impossible bargain. The whole deal involves making sure consumers don't use a sour grapes competing retailer/appraiser's opinion at home where they will likely bad mouth what you just bought on your trip. Overall, the situation is a worst case scenario being played out for multi-million dollar amounts and the uninformed consumer does not get more than one deserves when failing to use due diligence and when acting impulsively while on a trip away from home.

There is plenty of shared blame on all parties. I have seen some very lovely looking COL diamonds and some that were not at all as well cut or as pretty as others. Consistency in cut parameters is one important element of a "branded" diamond which was initially missing in the COL stone, but I gather that there is more consistency to the cut parameters of more recently cut diamonds of this brand and a much greater use of GIA reports than at earlier times. Some of this is good progress.

Being impulsive or not shopping properly, especially when away from home and especially outside the USA, is a large part of the problem which is easily fixed. You can't blame a large diamond firm from getting a good idea about creating a branded cut and marketing it as smartly as they can to make profits. Capitalism can be less that wonderful on occasions and using your own knowledge and good sense is a very important thing in such cases.

 

[doberman]

My table mate had at least a dozen of them, rings, earrings, pendants...all I had were my ACA's. I had to listen all week why hers were better because they were 60-70 percent off ( of what???) and bigger than mine.

.

Seriously? Who talks like this? No one with any class, that's for sure. I would just smile and let her prattle on.

I wouldn't buy anything from a company that encouraged revenge tactics.

 

[Tekate]

AprilBaby:

I've done at least 6 cruises now.. and I've sat with some people a lot more wealthy than I and truthfully the 'wealthiest' don't even wear diamonds.. I tend to look at this stuff.. I suppose they either don't care or don't bring them... was this Royal Caribbean? or a higher end line? just curious...the selling of diamonds was cute huge on RC and Celebrity X but on my last cruise with Azamara.. I didn't notice rocks, there was a small part of the jewelry store that sold some diamonds.. a lot of the store was some designer from Sweden selling interesting necklaces and bracelets.

I would bet your stones are gorgeous!

hope your cruise was a great one.

 

[AprilBaby]

Disney cruise line, higher end cruise. I left most of my stuff at home, if there was a problem I would want my daughter to get my stuff, not the ocean. I did wear my eternity. This woman brought Fort Knox with her. She is alone, no daughter to leave it to. Every night a different full set of jewelry.

 

[Indylady]

The revenge nail polish is a hoot.

 

[ChristineRose]

"We offer outreach programs to familiarize appraisers with the Crown of Light"

I don't need an "outreach" program.

No kidding, although I would be interested in knowing what they have to say in this program. I wounder if this is a buzzword for a brochure or if there's an actual class involved. Free booze? That's part of the sales pitch after all.

Based on this rather suspicious post, you will learn that an appraisal for insurance purposes should be done at the listed price (not the price the customer actually paid) because if the insured wants another Crown of Light they will have to pay list price.

http://www.armstronggemmology.com/Blog.html?entry=crown-of-light-diamond-r

 

[denverappraiser]

"We offer outreach programs to familiarize appraisers with the Crown of Light"

I don't need an "outreach" program.

No kidding, although I would be interested in knowing what they have to say in this program. I wounder if this is a buzzword for a brochure or if there's an actual class involved. Free booze? That's part of the sales pitch after all.

Based on this rather suspicious post, you will learn that an appraisal for insurance purposes should be done at the listed price (not the price the customer actually paid) because if the insured wants another Crown of Light they will have to pay list price.

http://www.armstronggemmology.com/Blog.html?entry=crown-of-light-diamond-r

The usual price for an insurance valuation the expected cost of replacement with another like it, new, at retail. 'Retail' is the first tough word here. If the expected retail price is predictably discounted from MSRP, then that''s where it should land. This causes a LOT of trouble with appraisals. Sometimes it's deliberate. They take 'retail' to mean the way discount sales people use it. "This is worth XYZ but I'll sell it for less because I'm your buddy and it's all about the love." It's the highest price that anyone anywhere would dare to ask for the item, regardless of their ability to actually close a sale at that price. The sky's the limit. On the other hand, if it's reasonable to expect the insurer to have to pay MSRP to replace than that's indeed where it should be priced. Since this is a branded item that is exclusively available at a particular store, it's correct that 'new' should occur at that store and at their prices. The same rule applies to Tiffany, Cartier, Crafted by Infinity or any other replaceable branded item. This is the tricky part of David's post above. A manufacturer can suggest anything they want. That doesn't mean they're going to get it. I've appraised dozens of COL's and in every case the sales presentation included a discount from the claimed MSRP. I've even been involved in helping documentation with a replacement. That too was discounted.

 

[oldminer]

Neil "gets it". This is one of the trickiest issues with defining what a "replacement value" ought to be. With Major High end firms like Tiffany, Cartier, etc, the price they ask is the price they sell items for most commonly. Such firms generally do not cooperate with appraisers on what their retail selling prices are making it a moderate challenge for appraisers to arrive at a correct value. A little cooperation would be welcomed.

With many lesser "brands" sold by less than High End retailers., the MSRP is NOT the price that the item commonly sells for. Every major chain has tagged prices which are well above their planned selling price. Arriving at a correct retail replacement value on such "brands" generally discounted from MSRP adds a further layer of supposition to the appraisal process. The fact that this particular retail vendor willingly cooperates with appraisers in supplying the MSRP, but not the usual replacement retail, is both good and bad and it absolutely confuses many appraisers as to how to handle the final valuation. The full MSRP is nearly always way more than required to replace such a stone, and the amount of the discount is variable, depending on the sophistication, and patience of the individual buyer.

Does a COL diamond look "better" than an equivalent AGS000? This is a matter of individual choice.
Is every COL cut with the consistency of an equivalent AGS000 insuring nearly duplicate appearance and light behavior from each stone? No. I understand they are working in this direction to bring more consistency to their product.
How does the eventual discounted retail of a COL light compare to the retail on Pricescope, or is a B&M store of an equivalent AGS000? This is up to the consumer to search and compare to make their own decision. In the end, I believe you buy what you most want. We must consider that COL diamonds are primarily bought during a vacation and in a somewhat impulsive and time limited situation. That isn't necessarily the best state of mind to make a cool headed decision, but again, this is individual choice in the real world.

 

[Tekate]

I last cruised from Spain to Miami and I brought nothing. .nada! this cruise was 50% USA and 49% United Kingdom people and 1% the rest.. not one European woman wore the type of jewelry I have seen on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity X.. (this was my first Azamara)... I was traveling thru Spain for a while and didn't want to wear even my wedding band as they have HIGH unemployment and while I don't come CLOSE to any fort knox I have a few nice wedding bands..

May I say that this woman you were forced to converse with is classless... I have no daughters but two sons and in my will I have it set up that all my jewelry is to be split fairly OR SOLD and split.. no fights

Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday! or whatever you wish..

 

[Sky56]

I cruise a lot and I don't ever buy diamonds or fine jewelry then - Low quality and high prices for most of what I see! Nice sterling Larimar jewelry is OK to buy at DI but run away from the other stuff. And it isn't much fun to browse those places as the predatory salespeople won't leave you alone. That said, I studied the Crown of Light diamonds closely with my loupe and I think the cut is very cool. It looks like a bubble with many facets and it's pretty. I'd never buy one though, except if I see a piece of jewelry with one at a favorite pawn shop.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Neil "gets it". This is one of the trickiest issues with defining what a "replacement value" ought to be. With Major High end firms like Tiffany, Cartier, etc, the price they ask is the price they sell items for most commonly. Such firms generally do not cooperate with appraisers on what their retail selling prices are making it a moderate challenge for appraisers to arrive at a correct value. A little cooperation would be welcomed.

With many lesser "brands" sold by less than High End retailers., the MSRP is NOT the price that the item commonly sells for. Every major chain has tagged prices which are well above their planned selling price. Arriving at a correct retail replacement value on such "brands" generally discounted from MSRP adds a further layer of supposition to the appraisal process. The fact that this particular retail vendor willingly cooperates with appraisers in supplying the MSRP, but not the usual replacement retail, is both good and bad and it absolutely confuses many appraisers as to how to handle the final valuation. The full MSRP is nearly always way more than required to replace such a stone, and the amount of the discount is variable, depending on the sophistication, and patience of the individual buyer.

Does a COL diamond look "better" than an equivalent AGS000? This is a matter of individual choice.
Is every COL cut with the consistency of an equivalent AGS000 insuring nearly duplicate appearance and light behavior from each stone? No. I understand they are working in this direction to bring more consistency to their product.
How does the eventual discounted retail of a COL light compare to the retail on Pricescope, or is a B&M store of an equivalent AGS000? This is up to the consumer to search and compare to make their own decision. In the end, I believe you buy what you most want. We must consider that COL diamonds are primarily bought during a vacation and in a somewhat impulsive and time limited situation. That isn't necessarily the best state of mind to make a cool headed decision, but again, this is individual choice in the real world.

The lack of cooperation from some "branded" lines as well as some designers in sharing information is a pet peeve of mine.
It seems to me that it would be in the best interest to cooperate and share pricing information with appraisers.
If we under value an item, that will not be looking out for the best interest of our mutual client/customer.
It becomes a mind reading game.
Honestly, I will sometimes just ask for a receipt to provide an accurate appraisal value. It never hurts to ask.
My main concern is that my client is adequately protected at the correct value that fits the correct situation.
All valid points by Neil and Dave.

Happy Holidays from the Metro staff.

 

[John P]

Timely thread. I just returned from Cozumel on Sunday where I visited a DI store to browse COL. I identified myself as a trade member and talked shop with one of the salesmen for about 10 minutes.

He showed me a loose 1.13 H SI2 COL, quoting retail price at 99,900 mxp (about 7,650 USD). I placed it table down on a white pad and color might have been HI or top J; it was impossible to say under the showroom dazzle lights. It was eye-clean to my 40-something self, bearing in mind that COL faceting + spotlighting masks a lot. I didn't want to push boundaries by asking for a loupe.

The store was empty even though several cruise ships were in port. The salesman complained that the cruise ships themselves are moving diamonds to passengers, cutting into his business (if I understood him correctly?). He also asked if I had any job openings in the USA or Antwerp he could apply-for.

Happy Holidays, everyone.

 

[denverappraiser]

The problem Tiffany and the like have with appraisers is twofold. First, if we produce documents that say something is ‘worth’ what it would cost to replace it new at retail, consumers will routinely use this for other purposes, like as evidence of value for resale. They would like to control this. Tiffany, in particular, has a very odd relationship with their own secondary market. On one hand they like to point out that their stuff retains it’s value better than some other makers, and on the other hand they deliberately undermine the market, presumably because they think it encourages new sales.

Secondly, they operate their own appraisal divisions. They want people getting their appraisals done THERE. Even ignoring the revenue generated, with in-house ‘appraisers’, they can control what’s reported or omitted about the grading, condition and, God forbid, concerns over craftsmanship.

 

[denverappraiser]

The salesman complained that the cruise ships themselves are moving diamonds to passengers, cutting into his business (if I understood him correctly?).

The cruise lines all have on-board stores to sell you things and they have strategic partnerships with, or outright ownership of, merchants in the popular ports. This includes everything from jewelry to fine art to liquor to condos. Cruise ships are VERY expensive to buy and operate. Customers are price conscious when they buy the tickets but less so when they're on vacation. This sort of thing has become an important profit center.

I get job offers from the cruise lines regularly to be an on-board personal shopper and jewelry consultant for folks. That does, indeed, seem to be a growth area. Perhaps that's where the guy from DI should be looking for work. Something tells me that the diamond business in Antwerp is a tough gig that's getting tougher every year.