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Credit card chargeback?

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Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
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What is the usual Visa or MasterCard policy for a chargeback when a consumer has a dispute with a vendor? Are there any minimum amounts? It is true that CC company will do the chargeback without questioning it and that the burden of proof is then on the vendor?
 

justme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
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184
You first have to call your card and they will either ask questions (filling out a form themselves) or mail / fax you a form to fill out. Then they contact the company that posted the charge and ask them for input - then based on this information the card issues the credit (charges vendor back) or responds to you as to why they will honor the charge.

I don't use Amer. Express but I think I remember they have a different type of policy so the above might not hold true.


Basic but this should give you the idea.
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
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Thanks!

I'll be giving them a call tomorrow. It's been a few months but I assume I can still invoke the chargeback priviledge.

It's a nice feature for the consumer, but it must stink if you are the vendor!

R/A
 

Tarams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
228
There is no minimum amount. And no, they do not do chargebacks "without questioning it". They will credit your account immediately & while "pending investigation". The burden of proof is not automatically bourne by the vendor. It does depend on the situation, but you must have sufficient documentation to uphold your claim. If they find you to be at fault, the charge will reappear on your statement, if not, it stays off & the case is closed.
 

ociopia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
95
We are currently in a dispute with a vendor we bought a diamond from in Cozumel, Mexico. American Express has been very polite but so far, not terribly helpful.

The diamond is a Princess cut, .71 carat, F color, SI1 clarity according to the "certificate" created and issued by the selling store. There is no "legitimate" report.

The initial "very cursory" insurance appraisal my husband got in the U.S. (this was a surprise Christmas gift for me) stated the diamond was the correct carat and color but said that the clarity ranged between SI2 and I1. This was with the stone set.

American Express would not even let us file a claim until the charge appeared on my husband's statement - so that took a month.

I won't go into all the long, dreary details but - suffice it to say I have had to send the ring to Bill Lieberum (Rock Doc) to be appraised unset. I highly, highly recommend Bill - he is fabulous.

We will see what American Express does once they receive the new appraisal, showing that the diamond unset is a I1-I2 with minute chips and an abraision underneath where the prongs were.

Bottom line, it can be very difficult, depending on the store's policies, to force American Express to do anything unless they feel certain there is fraud. American Express is loath to go against their vendors, yet they also desire to please their card holders. And because this is international - it is a mess. Otherwise I would have just returned the diamond to Mexico. But - customs, what if they refuse it, what if they say it is damaged, etc? Yikes.

So - while this has not sounded cheerful - it has been a wonderful learning experience because this whole thing is what has brought me to these forums and stimulated some deep, secret, mystical force called "diamond mania!"
 

Tarams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
228
It's good that you had the appraisal done. Your credit card company is also going to want to see a signed delivery confirmation as proof that you have returned the ring/stone to the seller. Those 2 items should be all the proof that they need to go ahead and make the reversal final. (I only comment because I've been through this myself, twice! (Well the 2nd is in the process still )).
 

ociopia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
95
Unfortunately we can't return the stone without prior consent by the seller, who so far won't give it. I have discovered you can't just "fedex" a diamond to Cozumel! There are customs, and the diamond will probably be refused by the vendor. So we have to patiently wait.

Bottom line - don't ever buy a diamond outside of the U.S. if you live in the U.S.

I'm very happy for you, Tara, that things have worked well for you.
 

Tarams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
228
I should have asked if you paid the vendor directly with your cc or if you paid through a service like PayPal. I can understand the problems with returning an item to Cozumel! The first chargeback that I had to do, the vendor refused delivery - I still had to provide proof to the cc company that I tried - & I ultimately had to send the item elsewhere.

Good luck!
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
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1,792
I (Todd) noticed that a suplemental medical insurance program was placing monthly charges of $95 on my Amex and called Amex to dispute the charges because I did not recall signing up for the program, Amex immediately credited my account for the charges and notified the company that made the charges of the dispute... I never heard from the company or Amex again and it's been more than a year... Of course, the higher the amount of the chargeback, the more you'll probably have to prove.
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
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----------------
On 2/28/2003 6:35:36 PM Tarams wrote:

There is no minimum amount. And no, they do not do chargebacks "without questioning it". They will credit your account immediately & while "pending investigation". The burden of proof is not automatically bourne by the vendor. It does depend on the situation, but you must have sufficient documentation to uphold your claim. If they find you to be at fault, the charge will reappear on your statement, if not, it stays off & the case is closed.

----------------
I think I have a pretty strong case. Some thing that was supposed to be in stock and ship "the next day" hasn't showed up - and it's been 100 days! It was a gift that I assumed had shipped! I've told them I want a 50% discount and immediately delivery or a full refund. They're thinking about it, but I want to issue a chargeback rather than wait any longer.
 

Tarams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
228
In that case, where you never received the goods you were billed for, then yes, the burden of proof will be on the vendor - to prove that they shipped the item & that you received it (a signed proof of delivery). Sounds like you're fine & should have no problems! The amount is credited to your account right after you institute the chargeback, the cc company will do the follow up.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
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7,828
I have had two chargebacks. One from a restaurant in NYC that "added" some extra tip. This was blatant as "my" tip was quite higher than 15%. No questions asked. They took it off my account & then permanently removed it when I filled out the proper paperwork.

The second was from a vendor that I had no idea who they were. Turns out the charge was legit. The credit card company removed it tempor. until the vendor disclosed who they were. The vendor MC account was different than the D.B. AS name.

Good luck. If you are a member in good standing, they should have NO problem w/ your complaint.
 

Iceman

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,374
If your a consumer you can get away with murder on a credit card charge back
don't worry. If your a merchant you get screwed, sometimes you deserve it some
times you don't.

Story #1 - I had a customer that wanted a 9 inch heavy thick chain for a pocket
watch. We mailed them up life size photo copy of the chain to show them it matched
the style of the picture sent to us. All is well and good the sale was made after their
ok for the customer job to cut a chain to that length. Three months later they call
and want their money back saying its not what they want. Even though we state a 10
day return policy , even on custom jobs. Well the credit card company came into
the bank and was ready to take the money. It happens I got a different bank a
month before all of this and there was not an account for the Visa to draw from.
The bank told me I owed them the money and I told them I owned them nothing ,
explained the situation and never heard from both again.
 

Iceman

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,374
Story # 2 - A lady from Down South was up to purchase a ring for her husband to be. She saw the ring her and liked it. The ring was one of those you can not size them kind of rings.

Well after a year the engagment broke off , she wanted to return the ring and I told her its been a year and I dont guarrentee the engagment. Next thing I know I get a box from her and I refuse the shipment. Next thing I know I get a charge back on the credit card. Ok, after excepting Im screwed it takes me 2 months to get the ring from her!!! All scuffed up and worn to hell. I had to send it back to the manufacturer to clean it up, because of the design work of Platinum and 18 k.

So, if your a consumer , feel free to do what you want you are protected right or wrong. The vendors all you can do is cross your fingers.

Nuff said
The Iceman
 

ociopia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
95
Well after Iceman's post, it is apparent the whole thing is a game of chance! Vendors "take it in the ear" and so do consumers. Perhaps it just depends on timing and luck!

But then - what doesn't?
 

Iceman

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,374
What fun would it be if this was a perfect place to live
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 3/1/2003 9:37:23 AM Tarams wrote:

Not to get off the subject, but what restaurant was it?
----------------
I can not remember. It was several years ago.
 

Tarams

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
228
I would think there is some kind of protection for the vendor to guard against chargebacks. As a merchant, you pay for the ability to accept credit cards in the first place, so you should be protected as well.

PayPal was considered the "merchant" on one of my online purchases, even though they are not the actual "seller". I used my Discover Card & instituted the chargeback through them. The first time, PayPal DID BLOCK the chargeback - citing that the item was never returned. And Discover Card denied the reversal. I had proof that the seller refused delivery of the pkg., so the short of it is that I had to send the pkg. to PayPal - they needed to receive the merchandise back first before allowing the chargeback to go through, and I had to institute a new investigation through Discover.

So there is some protection for the merchant. It's a lot of time & aggravation no matter which side you're on.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Credit Card Chargebacks vary from company to company.

Master Card and Visa both have different parameters they use, but the final decision as I understand it is made by the issuing bank.

Do most Credit Card Companies charge back without the purchaser providing some sort of evidence of the problem?

Usually not.

However, if you didn't actually sign the charge, that has some bearing.


Can you provide some more details? What did you purchase? Amount of the charge? Does the seller have a refund policy?
Did you return the item or make a good faith effort to do so?

What is the seller's side of the dispute? Is the item misrepresented? Is the seller within 50 miles of your address?


Rockdoc
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
Most consumers have no idea of some of the cost to vendors.

All credit card companies charge the seller a fee (from about 1.5% to 5%), but what some don't know is:

Some of the credit card companies keep this charge even if the item is returned for a refund. I'm talking about normal returns say within 10 days, the credit card companies keep their original fee. On a $10,000 purchase the seller could be out of as much as $500.00

Go figure........
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,553
Well, Steve, Dems the breaks!

oooh hahhahahahahhahah! Prolly never heard THAT one before!


You are right - I had no idea that the vendor would still be out the charge fee if the item is returned. That stinks!
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
1,553
I called today.

The first woman told me I was out of luck because it was not within 60 days of the transaction. When I asked her how there could have been a transaction with no goods or services received she told me it didn't matter - the 60 days were up. When I pressed her, she admitted that she was not in the "disputes" department but was confident it was a no go. I had to press her further to get her to ring Disputes and get the official word. She put me on hold for a minute and then came back and said, "Can you hold? All of Disputes lines are busy." I said, "No. Have them call me with the answer." She then tried to tell me that it would be a waste of time to have Disputes call me back because the 60 days were up and there was nothing I could do.

As I was getting irritated, Annette from Disputes came on the line and asked me again what the situation was. THIS time after explaining it again she said that it was a good thing I called when I did because there was still a window of opportunity for me. I questioned her, but she didn't see to want to tell me exactly what limits of that window was. (I'm guessing it is 120 days.) Apparently I was not SOL. I think not ever asking for a chargeack before helped my cause.

Anyway, after a couple of additional questions Annette credited my account. That first dingbat didn't know what she was talking about and I'm glad I was persistent!

Now, to complicate things, the company I have the dispute with said that they shipped one of the two items last Friday (after I explicitly told them NOT to on Thursday). We'll see what happens now that they no longer hold the cards.

Funny thing is, I never would have instituted a chargeback if the vendor would have been apologetic and contrite. That just pissed me off.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
----------------
On 3/1/2003 11:27:53 PM Rank Amateur wrote:

Well, Steve, Dems the breaks!

oooh hahhahahahahhahah! Prolly never heard THAT one before!


----------------

Cute R/A!
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Just got an email from the vendor saying that they "can't" give me any additional discount and they hope I understand.

Evidently they have not yet figured out that I refunded myself the money.
 
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