Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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No, I don't view it as such. People can be foolish and selfish and it is not a good combo. People often show poor judgment. I think that is what is happening in many different situations now. Poor judgment and also a false belief it cannot happen to them. I don't view people like this as the enemy. I view their behavior as selfish and risky. It is up to us to keep ourselves safe from them but in many cases I love them but just don't agree with their viewpoint.
I agree those holding large functions now are behaving selfishly. Endangering not just themselves but others. Of course we have control over whether we attend or not. Or do we? Not under all circumstances IMO. I cannot decide not to attend my MIL's funeral tomorrow. I have to be there to support my DH. We are a team. This is his mother. Do we (yes both DH and I) wish that the funeral and mass would have been postponed to after Covid sometime in 2021? Yes we both do. However my DH was not in charge of the plans and we cannot choose not to attend.
Under all other circumstances we would not go anywhere near a crowd. Outside or inside let alone inside a church for an hour and inside a funeral home for 2 hours. We will be wearing masks and shields and social distancing as best we can.
I wonder how others who feel similarly would handle this situation?
Absolutely. @OboeGal I agree with everything you wrote.
I was not surprised by my dh's brothers decision to go ahead with the funeral and mass now. His family has always been selfish and sadly continue to be. What I was surprised about however is one of his brothers is in the medical field. He is a surgeon. And he is coming here with his entire family on a plane for the funeral. So apparently he feels the risk is either minimal or doesn't pertain to his family or whatever measures they are taking he feels safe.
I am fine with others taking whatever risks they deem appropriate for them. I take umbrage at them putting others at risk. Knowing full well we cannot refuse to attend. I mean we could refuse but we wouldn't.
How many of you would refuse to attend funeral services for your immediate family?
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I have not read all the posts in the thread, however, personally, I am still avoiding crowded places where social distancing (SD) is not possible or practical.
If I were to meet anyone in person, it would need to be outdoor meets where SD can be practiced. I have only met up with one friend in her garden since the lockdown has been eased at the beginning of June 2020 in England.
I do not wish to catch the virus (or any other transmittable pathogens) for it to be transmitted unknowingly to anyone else, whether I like them or not.
DK
If I were to meet anyone in person, it would need to be outdoor meets where SD can be practiced. I have only met up with one friend in her garden since the lockdown has been eased at the beginning of June 2020 in England.
I do not wish to catch the virus (or any other transmittable pathogens) for it to be transmitted unknowingly to anyone else, whether I like them or not.
DK
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We are in a different situation here, because we had a hard lockdown, and from the 18th March, to just a couple of weeks ago, we didn’t go out at all. Our easing started with being able to drive somewhere local to exercise as opposed to having to walk around the street for exercising. We did that once, too many people out. Once we could drive, we went to places we used to take our dog that we knew would be quiet. Then we were able to meet up outside with one friend, so we started walking once a week with a friend, socially distancing of course. A couple of weeks ago, we could meet friends (max 6) in their garden. We went round for afternoon tea 2 weeks ago to our friends and sat in the garden, 2 metres apart. Last week, we had friends come round to our place for afternoon tea, again 2 metres apart, and no entering the house. We can now visit a friend in their home, maintaining social distancing, so we are going to do that this week.
Our R rate is below 1, and our daily new infections and death rates have come right down, and we’ve got localised hot spots which have more restrictions.
Most people have complied with the Government lockdown measures, which have resulted in us having more freedoms now, but we won’t be going to bars (didn‘t before) or restaurants anytime soon. We’ve only been out to shop twice, and wore masks and kept away from other people.
Our R rate is below 1, and our daily new infections and death rates have come right down, and we’ve got localised hot spots which have more restrictions.
Most people have complied with the Government lockdown measures, which have resulted in us having more freedoms now, but we won’t be going to bars (didn‘t before) or restaurants anytime soon. We’ve only been out to shop twice, and wore masks and kept away from other people.
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I don't go to funerals when I don't feel like it and that's before Covid19.
Hubby didn't attend both his grandparents funerals. I didn't go to my uncle's funeral.
I don't see the point in funerals.
If I had a great relationship with the person while they were alive I'm sure they don't need me to attend now that they're gone.
Love them, cherish them, cook for them, chat to them, tell them a joke, laugh with them. Better to do all that while they're alive than be around lamenting when they're dead.
If it makes you feel any better Missy I wouldn't go to Lil Sis's funeral if she died (knock on wood, touch wood that she'll be alive, happy and healthy for a very long time). This is even without Covid19.
I talk to her every day, see her every second day, cook for her every second day, am willing to wipe her butt when she's 70. I'm very devoted to her, I don't need to go to a funeral to put on a show. We are the best of sisters and we know it and live it every day.
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I hear you. And to a large degree I agree. Funerals aren’t for the deceased. They’re for the remaining family members. To bring closure (for those who need it) and to pay our respects to those loved ones left behind. It’s complicated.
I agree one’s relationship with the person while they were alive is the critical factor but funerals hold an important place for many.
If it wasn’t important to my dh we wouldn’t attend. I’m not attending for his brothers. I’m attending for my DH. And hoping this isn’t one big mistake.
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I am having a similar issue with a dear niece who wants to visit us with her two toddlers. I am the matriarch of that side of the family since my mom passed. She lives in a current hot spot. When I balked, she was upset, disappointed and I was made to feel guilty. Even though they know of my health issues, they are of the belief that Covid isn’t serious or a real threat.
Sadly, it has caused a rift between us. I am of the belief that if they really were concerned for me they would not ask me to make this decision. They should know better imo. They may be upset with me, but I wouldn’t consider them foes or otherwise. I now think they are foolish and selfish and I want no part of that during a pandemic thankyouverymuch.
Sadly, it has caused a rift between us. I am of the belief that if they really were concerned for me they would not ask me to make this decision. They should know better imo. They may be upset with me, but I wouldn’t consider them foes or otherwise. I now think they are foolish and selfish and I want no part of that during a pandemic thankyouverymuch.
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You know how sorry I am you’re dealing with this. Remember what they think doesn’t matter. They won’t be there for you should you fall ill. Their life will remain unchanged. Please take care of you.
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You know how sorry I am you’re dealing with this. Remember what they think doesn’t matter. They won’t be there for you should you fall ill. Their life will remain unchanged. Please take care of you.
True that! And thank you for giving me the strength to say no. I will remind them that they surely won’t be around to help me should I get it, will they?!
@missy I am so sorry you have to attend the funeral, and I know that you do have to...I think his brother should’ve taken the Pandemic into account. I am constantly surprised at people’s lack of common sense. It’s not ‘common’ at all!!
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I hope this hasn't upset you too much. As you know I'm pretty relaxed about things and often go galavanting around. However I would never ever guilt someone into seeing me if they were not comfortable with taking the risk. That is just simply unacceptable behavior. Do what you like, leave others out of it.
My best friend is super careful about everything. Ever since they told us we can have up to five visitors she's declined a few gatherings but did come to one I hosted yesterday. Before she came we made sure she knew where we'd been, the places we eat out at, how festy our kids are etc to make sure she was comfortable and could decline at any time.
I am appalled that anyone would try to guilt someone into seeing them!!!
Niffler75
Brilliant_Rock
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Potentially tricky decisions depending on personal risk factors, family make- up, relationships, work commitments etc. etc.
In the UK I have just seen the pics of people flocking to bars and restaurants with absolutely no social distancing in place.
Humans + binge drinking = stupid behaviour!
I would definitely not be happy if one of these people were in our so called 'bubble' and rocked up at our house!
In the UK I have just seen the pics of people flocking to bars and restaurants with absolutely no social distancing in place.
Humans + binge drinking = stupid behaviour!
I would definitely not be happy if one of these people were in our so called 'bubble' and rocked up at our house!
Where I live we are now permitted to have a 10 person bubble. Everyone in the group needs to agree on the people within the bubble and isn't supposed to socialize with anyone else within 2 meters (6 feet).
My husband and I, our 2 children, my mother and my sister formed a 6 person bubble. It's been nice to hug my mom and sister again.
My father (from whom my mother is divorced) has not been following the rules from day one. He's been having dinner parties all along and now is going to church again and taking eucharist (which is now permitted but seems very high risk). I don't see him as an enemy but I know his feelings are very hurt that he isn't in our "bubble" (not that he seems to grasp the concept anyway). I think he feels we are treating him like an enemy.
My husband and I, our 2 children, my mother and my sister formed a 6 person bubble. It's been nice to hug my mom and sister again.
My father (from whom my mother is divorced) has not been following the rules from day one. He's been having dinner parties all along and now is going to church again and taking eucharist (which is now permitted but seems very high risk). I don't see him as an enemy but I know his feelings are very hurt that he isn't in our "bubble" (not that he seems to grasp the concept anyway). I think he feels we are treating him like an enemy.
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@Slick1 in your situation, I would feel exactly the same, it’s selfish and thoughtless of other people to try and guilt you in to accepting their careless attitude to the pandemic given your health issues. Perhaps in time, they’ll understand your concerns, if not, well, as we say here, they’ll have to lump it.
I’m so sorry @missy, I know tomorrow is a great concern for you, hopefully the day will be a fitting send off for MIL, and will pass without any problems.
I’m so sorry @missy, I know tomorrow is a great concern for you, hopefully the day will be a fitting send off for MIL, and will pass without any problems.
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Thank you for reinforcing my decision. I’ve been struggling with it @Austina . I wish it were different, but unfortunately, this pandemic has cause more divisiveness and ignorance seems to be rampant in some areas. My smilies aren’t working but insert face/brick wall emoji!
@mellowyellowgirl Thank you! You’re sweet to care how I feel.. honestly, I do feel guilty because that’s how mom’s roll, right?! That mommy guilt is real, even though I am not her mommy, she does feel super close to me. I would not forgive her or myself if I got it or spread it to someone else, so I have no choice really. I just wish she would be more gracious in understanding.
@mellowyellowgirl Thank you! You’re sweet to care how I feel.. honestly, I do feel guilty because that’s how mom’s roll, right?! That mommy guilt is real, even though I am not her mommy, she does feel super close to me. I would not forgive her or myself if I got it or spread it to someone else, so I have no choice really. I just wish she would be more gracious in understanding.
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SallyB
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I’m really sorry you’re being put in this dangerous, difficult situation, @missy.
I would call at the last minute and tell the other family members that my husband is running a fever and that we don’t want to risk THEIR health and safety by attending. And then I would host a separate memorial service post-COVID.
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Negligent, misinformed, and selfish are the words I would call them, not enemy or foe. I can't control them but I can control my words and actions. I have the choice to turn down the invitation and not attend.
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I hope the angry knee jerk reaction from your niece will pass. I think everyone is really looking to get back to normal after lockdown--travelling/visiting etc.--which probably accounts for the guilt trip put upon you. Her wanting to get away, is not your problem! Take care of yourself.
What we know is that Grandma got in the car, drove over and went into the party. Feelings aside, she made that choice. No one MADE her do that. She could have mailed the gift or left it on the front steps. It is sad that her choice has cost her so much but by now everyone knows the risks.
As difficult as it is either way, even Missy has a choice to attend a funeral or not. Many of us have been making those hard choices during these times and living with the consequences. Many of us have missed funerals, weddings, birthdays, graduations, milestone events, new babies etc. Sometimes the choice has been removed from us altogether. Again we all know the risks....sometimes we are choosing to accept the risk to participate in what would otherwise be normal life events.
Other people don't make us feel guilty....guilt is self imposed. I have missed several things during this time, as we all have. Have some people gotten bent out of shape...yes! Is that my problem...NO!
But what I don't do, what is better for my own emotional well being.....I don't call or think of those people as selfish for inviting me or expecting me to be somewhere that I won't go. I don't think that they are just greedy, uncaring or want harm to come to me (even unknowingly). They are not enemies or foes. It does no good for me to attribute negative emotions/ motives to their actions. They are doing what they think is best, I am doing what I think is best. It's OK if we are out of alignment. We still have to have a relationship after this mess is over.
Maybe some are OK throwing relationships away because of this (who want to have a friend who is careless, selfish, greedy, negligent, willing to cause us harm?). Maybe some people have had only easy relationships where no one gets hurt, no one is disappointed or personally feels let down by another or no one has set expectations that another just can't meet. Maybe people are used to responding to guilt and that makes these things harder now. I'm not any one of those people. If this is your first go around then I understand how it might seem complicated to navigate.
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My husband (age 74) and his brother (69) used to go out for breakfast together once per month before the pandemic. Since then they have only spoken on the phone, as each poses a risk to the family of the other. DH and his brother are still employed, albeit in jobs without a lot of contact with other people (and they wear masks/socially distance at work), but they both have daily contact with daughters who work in jobs that expose them to the public. Our daughter works in a coffee shop. BIL's daughter is a nurse in a rehab hospital. BIL's wife provides childcare to their daughter's little boy while their daughter is at work.
Neither family has had a sick family member.
Next weekend, however, BIL will drive to our house, and he and DH will sit-- 10 feet apart-- in the shade under the large canopy in our back yard, and take turns serving themselves breakfast items from our picnic table -- which is set apart from the canopy.
Ground rules: No hugging or hand shaking. Masks to be worn after they finish eating. They can repeat it in August and September, as weather allows.
This was actually my suggestion. I think DH has really missed seeing his brother, and they won't be able to do this when the weather gets cold. I couldn't see insisting that DH not see his brother for a year or more until there is a vaccine. BIL is his only close relative. Both sets of parents and my own brother are deceased.
Neither family has had a sick family member.
Next weekend, however, BIL will drive to our house, and he and DH will sit-- 10 feet apart-- in the shade under the large canopy in our back yard, and take turns serving themselves breakfast items from our picnic table -- which is set apart from the canopy.
Ground rules: No hugging or hand shaking. Masks to be worn after they finish eating. They can repeat it in August and September, as weather allows.
This was actually my suggestion. I think DH has really missed seeing his brother, and they won't be able to do this when the weather gets cold. I couldn't see insisting that DH not see his brother for a year or more until there is a vaccine. BIL is his only close relative. Both sets of parents and my own brother are deceased.
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@pearlsngems I love this! Great idea! We do need familial interaction when it can be done safely.
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I would just like to caution folks that are gathering with friends outdoors.....the advice to stay six to ten feet apart was never intended for a prolonged interaction - only brief ones or ones where both parties are moving, such as walking together. If you're going to have a prolonged interaction in one static spot where the concentration of viral particles can build up more and more, you need to increase the distance and make sure that masks are on everyone and stay on at all times. Getting together to eat/drink is risky, as masks are continually being taken on and off.
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@missy, I'm so sorry that you're in the position you are. It's awful, frankly. You asked what others of us would do about funerals for close family members, so here is my honest answer: if it was my relative - even a parent - I would not go. Not during this time. I don't believe my brother would have tried to hold a funeral under these circumstances, but if he had, I would have absolutely let him know that doing so would be stupid and selfish beyond the pale (using nicer words) and that I would be no part of it. If that made him angry at me, so be it. I'd rather we be alive to be angry at each other and to be able to worry about how to repair the relationship than to no longer have that option or to have to live with knowing we put others in danger. If I were to go (which I wouldn't), I not only wouldn't ask my DH to go - I would insist that he didn't. If something were to happen to one of my in-laws, there is nothing we can do because they are all in the Netherlands and Brazil and we can't go there even if we wanted to. If he could go, I think my DH would probably lean against doing so, and if he did, he would definitely not expect me to.
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@missy, I just wanted to pop back in with another perspective. I mentioned to DH that we were discussing the dilemma of what to do about a loved one's funeral. He said that he would not himself participate in holding a funeral during this time, and if one of his siblings insisted on doing so, he would let them know that he would not attend, even for a parent. (Unlike me, he said he would keep it to himself that he thought having a funeral was a terrible decision. He has a cooler head about this sort of thing than I do! But he said that he would hope that he, as a son of the deceased, choosing to not attend would send a signal to other family members and friends that they could feel comfortable not attending either to protect themselves.) If they wanted him to deliver the eulogy, he would tell them to use technology so that he could do so remotely from home, through Skype or whatever, and that he would be happy to do so, but if that was not acceptable, they would just have to find someone else. He would not even remotely consider being there, nor expect or want me to.
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SallyB
Guest
I still maintain my stance that I wouldn’t go to a funeral now. But, for anyone who is interested, here is guidance from the CDC on funerals:
www.cdc.gov
COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE
This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.
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Thank you @OboeGal
That really means a lot It’s never easy to make the difficult decisions. You are right about her punishing me, and it’s not surprising, since she is solidly in Covid denial with her dad, my DB. I really can’t believe she is traveling with her babies to a her DH’s family reunion in my state!! His father is fighting cancer too!! I’m graciously (or not) bowing out.
Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Missy, its Monday afternoon here already
You and Greg's family are in my thoughts today
hugs to you both
Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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We had Gary's aunty die as we came out of covid level 2 and into level 1 which pretty much allows everyrhing except overseas travel
we didn't go to the funeral, its a bit sad because there is only one aunty left all on her own if my FIL's generation but im not taking the risk with Gary's health
if it was my own mum, who had a long undignified death of demetia i would have put her on ice or had a,private bural and a remenberence service latter
i know a nice funneral was important to my mother (and my late dad) and we spaired no exspensive - a 2nd hearse had to be used to transport the flowers because they would not fit in with mun
But your loved one is dead, and i know mum would not have wanted to have endangered anyone by attending her funeral
As it was if she had died too close to my upcoming Bruce Springsteen concert i don't care what flack i would have got from the extended family - she would have gone on ice
we didn't go to the funeral, its a bit sad because there is only one aunty left all on her own if my FIL's generation but im not taking the risk with Gary's health
if it was my own mum, who had a long undignified death of demetia i would have put her on ice or had a,private bural and a remenberence service latter
i know a nice funneral was important to my mother (and my late dad) and we spaired no exspensive - a 2nd hearse had to be used to transport the flowers because they would not fit in with mun
But your loved one is dead, and i know mum would not have wanted to have endangered anyone by attending her funeral
As it was if she had died too close to my upcoming Bruce Springsteen concert i don't care what flack i would have got from the extended family - she would have gone on ice
Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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