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Could you help me choose an emerald cut?

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emeraldforolivia

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
34
Hi,

So my mom got her 1.01ct DIF Pear from James Allen with a halo setting earlier this year for her second marriage to a most wonderful guy. I'm now facing the decision to choose a diamond for myself.

This is my final seven:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...pthFrom=45&DepthTo=80&TableFrom=40&TableTo=83

The chat specialist helped me narrow down to these three: (you have to click on the link above to view these three)
SKU 3506451 - 2.09ct E VVS2 Table 63% Depth 66.9% ($25020) GIA: 6262685149
SKU 3458912 - 2.03ct F VVS2 Table 62% Depth 67.7% ($20080) GIA: 5181497181
SKU 3671789 - 2.03ct F VVS1 Table 65% Depth 66.9% ($19420) GIA: 2274323195

They are all EX in polish and EX in symmetry and NONE fluorescence. On the D. Atlas website, all seven of them are graded 1B. I've requested ASET images.

My questions:
1) Could you take a look at all seven diamonds (from link above) and let me know if these three indeed are the best bet?
2) It appears that these three have significantly less black shadows than the rest in the link. Are these black shadows "bow ties"? Do they make a difference in the stone's cut and light performance (i.e. the more black shadows the worse)?
3) Are they overpriced or a good deal?
4) I'm really inclined to the $19420 one, from the GIA report, there is only one cloud on the lower right of the back side of the diamond, but the cloud is somewhat bigger than a usual cloud. Is it a big deal?
5) Could any one of these be a milky/oily/hazy stone?
6) Which one(s) could possibly be the one with best CUT and LIGHT PERFORMANCE?
7) Can I rely on the cut grade information using the D. Atlas tool?

Thank you.
 
First of all, let me welcome you to the step cut club! :mrgreen2:

Before we go any further, do you prefer more squatting (square) Emerald Cuts, or are you looking for the more elongated, rectangular EC’s? Do you want a large table?

I’m no expert, but I do, also, like the $19420 EC. It has a larger table, and a l x w ratio of 1.39:1, which is why I ask.
On paper and video it is it a stone just hope that you can get ASET, and view it in person before you make your final decision!
 
Yes, welcome to the step cut family! Give me a little bit and I'll look for some also...

Compare mm sizes of your choices also
 
I like the 2.09 and the one you like but wait for the aset.

The black is the camera--it is close and is reflected in the diamond.
 
I'd prob ditch #3, 6 and 7 just because they turn very black face-on.

I'd ditch #1 because it's the smallest by far

I'd probably pursue #4 and 5 for ASETs. Good balance of size, not to black face-on and not overly $$.
 
Matthews1127 said:
First of all, let me welcome you to the step cut club! :mrgreen2:

Before we go any further, do you prefer more squatting (square) Emerald Cuts, or are you looking for the more elongated, rectangular EC’s? Do you want a large table?

I’m no expert, but I do, also, like the $19420 EC. It has a larger table, and a l x w ratio of 1.39:1, which is why I ask.
On paper and video it is it a stone just hope that you can get ASET, and view it in person before you make your final decision!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply! I'm looking for a rectangular EC. But these three are all not proportioned to be elongated.
 
Update: I have the ASET images.
For the final 3:

#1 - $25000 - 2.09ct E VVS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.09-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3506451
3506451-jpg.604233


#2 - $20000 - 2.03ct F VVS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.03-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3458912
3458912-jpg.604234


#3 - $19000 - 2.03ct F VVS1
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.03-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3671789
3671789-jpg.604235


Please let me know how they rank in terms of light performance, and which one is the best for money.
And if you are so kind, please also include their grade (poor, average, good, excellent).
Appreciate it!!!
 
Of those three the only one I like is #1. If you watch the facets on the other two, they go dead as the light steps towards the middle (meaning they don’t change at all). It may not seem to be a big deal at the moment but trust me... once you have that diamond and stare at it constantly you notice (and obsess) about EVERY aspect of it! And since you have the chance to get one that has a nice distribution of light play, that’s personally what I would choose.
 
Thanks for posting them :)

Of those, I like the first one too - as ILikeShiny has said, numbers 2 and 3 seem to have dead, grey facets in the middle, which don't switch on and off so are just a bit 'meh'... lol
 
OoohShiny said:
have
Click to expand...
ILikeShiny said:
Of those three the only one I like is #1. If you watch the facets on the other two, they go dead as the light steps towards the middle (meaning they don’t change at all). It may not seem to be a big deal at the moment but trust me... once you have that diamond and stare at it constantly you notice (and obsess) about EVERY aspect of it! And since you have the chance to get one that has a nice distribution of light play, that’s personally what I would choose.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. I can see the #1 is best. But it is $6000 more than #3. So for clarification, the center part of #3 is really dead? Even it is not completely black/white from the ASET images?

Thanks a lot.
 
I did notice the price difference... lol

If you look at 3 as it rotates, the centre facets just don't do anything for perhaps 90degrees of rotation as it goes from one side to the other, so in real life it won't really sparkle or have any white flashes from the centre, I believe.

ECs are really hard to shop for - I recall even some of the trade people on here saying they've only seen 2 or 3 really well cut ECs in their whole career, so we are somewhat struggling to find very good ones generally.


The new Brian Gavin range of #ideal cut' ECs are all cut to the same patterning, I believe, such as this one, so see if you like what you see :)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/....010-e-vs1-emerald-diamond-bkags-104096832002


I was just having a quick look at JA to see what else they might have - if you expand your colour and clarity to G and VS1, there are a few more options come up:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.05-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3073596
Chunky faceting but perhaps a bit inactive and lacking contrast head on, and perhaps too much obstruction (black areas that are reflecting the camera, which will reflect the shadow your head casts when looking closely at it) at certain angles. Great spread for the carat weight, I think!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3736651
Active from end to end, some decent contrast when head-on, hits your desired colour/clarity targets, I like the narrower faceting patterns.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.31-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3685340
Same comment as previous stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3680200
This one seems to have no real 'all black' angles - even when there is obstruction, there are still areas of brightness. A mix of chunky and narrow faceting, so quite interesting to look at, and it's quite lively from all angles. The grade setting inclusion appears to be invisible to my eyes! And it's considerably cheaper than other options.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3680199
Maybe lacking a bit of brightness/contrast head-on but same comments on faceting/obstruction as previous stone.


Others that I chose but might not be 'great':

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.16-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3612082
I like the faceting pattern but too much obstruction head-on, I think.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.00-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3332005
Same comment as stone above.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3509293
And again... lol

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3662743
And again! Plus I think the centre facets are a bit dead.


Actually, just looking again at your original link - you have budget up to 35k? Let me look for the top end of that...
 
Of the 3 you posted, #1 is the best ASET. I agree with everything mentioned above. Eliminate #2 & #3. I haven’t looked at any of the other options @OoohShiny posted, yet, but I will, later today.
 
OoohShiny said:
I did notice the price difference... lol

If you look at 3 as it rotates, the centre facets just don't do anything for perhaps 90degrees of rotation as it goes from one side to the other, so in real life it won't really sparkle or have any white flashes from the centre, I believe.

ECs are really hard to shop for - I recall even some of the trade people on here saying they've only seen 2 or 3 really well cut ECs in their whole career, so we are somewhat struggling to find very good ones generally.


The new Brian Gavin range of #ideal cut' ECs are all cut to the same patterning, I believe, such as this one, so see if you like what you see :)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/....010-e-vs1-emerald-diamond-bkags-104096832002


I was just having a quick look at JA to see what else they might have - if you expand your colour and clarity to G and VS1, there are a few more options come up:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.05-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3073596
Chunky faceting but perhaps a bit inactive and lacking contrast head on, and perhaps too much obstruction (black areas that are reflecting the camera, which will reflect the shadow your head casts when looking closely at it) at certain angles. Great spread for the carat weight, I think!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3736651
Active from end to end, some decent contrast when head-on, hits your desired colour/clarity targets, I like the narrower faceting patterns.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.31-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3685340
Same comment as previous stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3680200
This one seems to have no real 'all black' angles - even when there is obstruction, there are still areas of brightness. A mix of chunky and narrow faceting, so quite interesting to look at, and it's quite lively from all angles. The grade setting inclusion appears to be invisible to my eyes! And it's considerably cheaper than other options.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3680199
Maybe lacking a bit of brightness/contrast head-on but same comments on faceting/obstruction as previous stone.


Others that I chose but might not be 'great':

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.16-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3612082
I like the faceting pattern but too much obstruction head-on, I think.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.00-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3332005
Same comment as stone above.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3509293
And again... lol

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.02-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3662743
And again! Plus I think the centre facets are a bit dead.


Actually, just looking again at your original link - you have budget up to 35k? Let me look for the top end of that...
Click to expand...

Oh my! Thank you so very much for your input. I don't have a 35k budget, though I wish I had. I put in 35k just to rule out those really expensive ones. I will take a really good look at the ones you suggested. For my #3, I notice that the center part doesn't do anything and it concerns me. My original parameters, as you probably already found out, are EX polish and EX symmetry and Minimum 2ct in weight and No Fluorescence and D-F and VVS2-IF. The link is what JA has enforcing these parameters. I originally ditched all "black-belt" stones (those have heavy black shadows) as I thought they have something to do with leakage. I used the D. Atlas tool to calculate diamond cut grades and only kept those that have a 1B grade. That's how it got down to the final 7 (in the comparison tab). I asked a chat rep to help me narrow further down, and miraculously, the final 3 he picked all have minimal black shadows, so this really made me believe that black shadows are bad bad bad. Now that I understand the black is the reflection of camera, it overthrows my original choices... I'm losing sleep over this. But still, a million thanks to you.
 
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.10-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3718919
Check out the size! Inclusion in the table may be visible, though, and perhaps a little lacking in contrast and brightness head-on.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.08-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-3320619
This reminds me of the vintage stuff that Yoram is cutting (who you should definitely contact in case he has something in stock or could cut something for you :) ):
http://gemconcepts.net/old-emerald-cut-diamond/

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.50-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3596367
Quite elongated (check out the length!) and with some long facets giving good brightness at certain angles, but maybe not as lively at the ends as other stones.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-d-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3620226
Quite like the facet patterning on this one but the left-hand end looks to be windowing at certain angles and there seems to be a rectangle of pretty dead facets just above the centre facets.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.21-carat-d-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3695707
I like this one quite a lot - nice facet patterning and I like the contrast patterning head-on, plus it's pretty lively from end to end. Perhaps a small bit of windowing at the bottom of the end facets at certain angles.


See what you think :)

@Matthews1127 and @Karl_K may be able to advise as well, although Karl can only do so from a technical point of view, IIRC!
 
emeraldforolivia said:
Oh my! Thank you so very much for your input. I don't have a 35k budget, though I wish I had. I put in 35k just to rule out those really expensive ones. I will take a really good look at the ones you suggested. For my #3, I notice that the center part doesn't do anything and it concerns me. My original parameters, as you probably already found out, are EX polish and EX symmetry and Minimum 2ct in weight and No Fluorescence and D-F and VVS2-IF. The link is what JA has enforcing these parameters. I originally ditched all "black-belt" stones (those have heavy black shadows) as I thought they have something to do with leakage. I used the D. Atlas tool to calculate diamond cut grades and only kept those that have a 1B grade. That's how it got down to the final 7 (in the comparison tab). I asked a chat rep to help me narrow further down, and miraculously, the final 3 he picked all have minimal black shadows, so this really made me believe that black shadows are bad bad bad. Now that I understand the black is the reflection of camera, it overthrows my original choices... I'm losing sleep over this. But still, a million thanks to you.
Click to expand...

You will see in my suggestions that I've gone to G and VS1 - I appreciate that we are all colour-sensitive to different levels, and that colour is just personal taste, but it's worth seeing if something might tempt you to expand your criteria ;-)

re: VVS clarity, it is usually overkill because VS1 should be eye-clean, but I totally get the need for 'mind-clean' - I went with VVS for my other half's stone so I knew it was definitely eye-clean! :lol:

I'm unfamiliar with the David Atlas tool - I think David is @oldminer on here??? so he might be able to advise on its use :)


Obstruction is where you are looking at the stone head-on and the shadow your head casts over the stone creates areas of darkness, which is why a camera does the same thing. Obstruction isn't necessarily bad, it can be very good for creating strong constrast patterns that (due to science :D) make the brighter areas look even brighter, which is a good thing. Obstruction also disappears over a certain distance, because your head is only a small area of darkness within the 'picture' the diamond is reflecting back (if that makes sense), so to other people looking at your diamond further away, they are likely to see the colours around them reflected back at them from the facets that have obstruction in the videos (that are blue in the ASETs), if I understand things correctly... :)
 
Of the 7 you posted I like the following two (these are just from viewing them)...
2.09 E VVS2 (the ASET on this one looks very nice too)
2.04 E VVS2

The others had either
- too much contrast facing up (blackness...facets off)
- were not flashing all the way down into the center
- uneven steps or 2 or more steps flashing at the same time that make it look like 1 big step

Edit...I dont even know why the SA would suggest that first 2.03 for an aset. You can see the
rectangle in the center that is not lighting up as it spins. Also shows in aset but...didnt really
need an aset to see it.
 
Last edited:
I thought the 2.09 diamond looked the best on the screen.
 
OoohShiny said:
I was just having a quick look at JA to see what else they might have - if you expand your colour and clarity to G and VS1, there are a few more options come up:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.05-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3073596
Chunky faceting but perhaps a bit inactive and lacking contrast head on, and perhaps too much obstruction (black areas that are reflecting the camera, which will reflect the shadow your head casts when looking closely at it) at certain angles. Great spread for the carat weight, I think!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3736651
Active from end to end, some decent contrast when head-on, hits your desired colour/clarity targets, I like the narrower faceting patterns.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.31-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3685340
Same comment as previous stone.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3680200
This one seems to have no real 'all black' angles - even when there is obstruction, there are still areas of brightness. A mix of chunky and narrow faceting, so quite interesting to look at, and it's quite lively from all angles. The grade setting inclusion appears to be invisible to my eyes! And it's considerably cheaper than other options.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3680199
Maybe lacking a bit of brightness/contrast head-on but same comments on faceting/obstruction as previous stone.
Click to expand...
@emeraldforolivia - You’ve gotten some very nice alternative suggestions here. Do any appeal to you?

And for your other reply to me, yes, I’m still drooling over this one :mrgreen2:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/2.21-carat-d-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3695707
 
Thank you everyone!!! You are wonderful! In the past week, I requested another ASET image from JA and it came today. This one definitely has most red. However, the amount of white on the corners are huge...
I will choose among the following three stones (price ascending). Would anyone help me just a little bit more?

#1 - 2.03ct F VVS1 $19420
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.03-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3671789
3671789.jpg


#2 - 2.04ct E VVS2 $23900
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.04-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-36614583661458 (1).jpg

#3 - 2.09ct E VVS2 $25450
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/2.09-carat-e-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3506451
3506451.jpg

I'm inclined to choose the 2.09 one. But on the GIA it says "internal graining not shown" which I'm not sure what it really means. Is "internal graining" a big deal?

Thank you.
 
tyty333 said:
Of the 7 you posted I like the following two (these are just from viewing them)...
2.09 E VVS2 (the ASET on this one looks very nice too)
2.04 E VVS2

The others had either
- too much contrast facing up (blackness...facets off)
- were not flashing all the way down into the center
- uneven steps or 2 or more steps flashing at the same time that make it look like 1 big step

Edit...I dont even know why the SA would suggest that first 2.03 for an aset. You can see the
rectangle in the center that is not lighting up as it spins. Also shows in aset but...didnt really
need an aset to see it.
Click to expand...

You have keen eyes. Indeed these two are the best. Which one do you think is better?

The 2.04 one
3661458 (1).jpg

or the 2.09 one
3506451.jpg
 
Oh gosh :oops2: I am by far no expert and have nothing further useful to say other than that I am humbled and honoured to be personally pinged by such an esteemed PS veteran as @rockysalamander :oops2: OP I hope you get your dream diamond!!
 
If those three I like the 2.09 the best.

(But I’m still pining away after the 2.21!)
 
I am out in the woods ...

Still recall a useful finding - WWW - regarding what to expect the "black shadows" in JA EC videos to be like, esp. not equivalent to ASET 'blue' & not necesarily to be counted as a fault.
 
Thank you, @rockysalamander for the sweet ping! :kiss2:
As I mentioned, before, I’m not an expert, but I adore step cut diamonds!

I am a huge fan of the 2.21 (30k+ Budget) JA EC 2.21DVVS1 that @ILikeShiny suggested, and is stuck on. I’m curious to know what the ASET on that diamond looks like!
L x W: 1.40:1 (much more rectangular).

My second choice is the 2.09 that you posted (#3). JA 2.09EVVS2. L x W: 1.34:1. She’s a bit on the plump side, but still beautiful. ;)2
 
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