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Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diamond?

gobble

Rough_Rock
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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Sorry wrong forum.
 

denverappraiser

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

If you ask the admin I"m sure they'll be happy to move it over to the correct forum. Just use the 'report concern' button on the right.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

While you are waiting on it to be moved, I wanted to ask Neil if they are finishing 4 ct diamonds in lab grown now? I thought they were smaller, or at least they were in the past.

But you need to ask the jeweler for magnified images of this stone, because regardless of the origin of the diamond, we would need to see it. The diamond is cut a little deep, but it is a large stone so might be okay. I'd probably want an ASET image on it, too.
 

ChristineRose

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Pricescopers in general are not too fond of lab diamonds, so I'll do my best to answer your question, even though I've not got half the skills of some on the forum.

First of all, do you really want a lab diamond? A lot of people assume that lab diamonds are always cheaper, but often that's because there's not an apples to apples comparison, which I'll explain below. The vendors certainly encourage this.

This stone is graded by IGI, which is a second tier lab. It's not a scam lab, which many, many diamond grading labs are, but it's still second tier. IGI mostly grades the common cheaper stones you find at the mall stores. It's very hard to compare an IGI stone to a GIA or AGS stone. I ran the Pricescope search and found only two stones that were even close. That said, it does seem to be a bargain price compared to a mined stone.

You may have noticed that this is a honking big stone. Under almost any other circumstances a stone like that would be sent to GIA. But GIA won't grade a lab stone, and neither you nor can do anything about it.

Next problem. The cut is somewhat deep and the stone will be somewhat dimmer than it needs to be. Some people don't notice a difference, or even prefer the deeper stones, as they tend to have more "flash" especially when being tilted around so the light hits from the side.

The weight of this stone is 4.01 carats. That tells us that the cutter was struggling to come in just over that magic 4.0 number. Very few stones of this size are perfectly cut, and even fewer that hover right on the edge of that magic .0 divide are.

The color is J, which is very common in lab diamonds. No one grows white diamonds, they grown colored diamonds and whiten them. The technology to get them bright white is new and not applied to every stone. A J stone will be visibly tinted in all lighting conditions. Besides that, the stone was graded by IGI, and it may be even more tinted than a GIA J stone--unfortunately you can't tell, and you can't "add" a grade or two to determine that this is a K. IGI does not grade soft--they grade inconsistently.

Even worse, lab diamonds tend towards the grey, where most diamonds tend towards the yellow. Many people like the soft white tones of a J; fewer people are enamored of light grey.

The clarity is S1. Many S1s are very nice and some are not. The uncertainty of the IGI grade means it might be worse than expected. The grade setting inclusion appears to be a large cloud. That is not a "good" inclusion for people looking for an S1 that looks better than expected.

If you do decide to go forward, be sure to check out the vendor's reputation. They have a good return policy--if they hadn't, I wouldn't even have bothered to write this post! Then see if they can get you an Idealscope or ASET image, or at least real pictures of the actual stone, not "sample" pictures of a super-ideal stone you are not buying! You will need to find an independent appraiser you trust before you buy the actual stone. She or he can tell you if GIA would concur that this is a J/SI1. Then at least you can compare the stone to mined stones.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Oh yeah, Brilliant Earth/Gemesis is growing them that large in quantity now, and even growing Ds. You can tell this is a Gemesis because all their inscriptions have the same format serial number that begins with LG for Lab Grown.

By the way, the OP might check out the BE site for some more options.
 

denverappraiser

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

diamondseeker2006|1469834726|4060698 said:
While you are waiting on it to be moved, I wanted to ask Neil if they are finishing 4 ct diamonds in lab grown now? I thought they were smaller, or at least they were in the past.

But you need to ask the jeweler for magnified images of this stone, because regardless of the origin of the diamond, we would need to see it. The diamond is cut a little deep, but it is a large stone so might be okay. I'd probably want an ASET image on it, too.
Well, d.nea has one stone over 4 carats (and it looks to be the same stone by the way). Diamond Foundry has zero. Their biggest at the moment is 2.55. BE has one over 4. It's 4.09. Puregrown won't let you look at their inventory any more but when I sneak in through the backdoor I don't see any there either. I think that means yes. There seem to be two of them.

Even at the 3 carat threshold there are only a few dozen visibly available in the whole industry. When I look at some of the big inventories, like BEs, I see 2253 stones offered for sale at the moment, and 125 of those are 2 carats or larger. They are getting bigger, but this one is definitely an outlier.
 

diagem

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

denverappraiser|1469840983|4060726 said:
diamondseeker2006|1469834726|4060698 said:
While you are waiting on it to be moved, I wanted to ask Neil if they are finishing 4 ct diamonds in lab grown now? I thought they were smaller, or at least they were in the past.

But you need to ask the jeweler for magnified images of this stone, because regardless of the origin of the diamond, we would need to see it. The diamond is cut a little deep, but it is a large stone so might be okay. I'd probably want an ASET image on it, too.
Well, d.nea has one stone over 4 carats (and it looks to be the same stone by the way). Diamond Foundry has zero. Their biggest at the moment is 2.55. BE has one over 4. It's 4.09. Puregrown won't let you look at their inventory any more but when I sneak in through the backdoor I don't see any there either. I think that means yes. There seem to be two of them.

Even at the 3 carat threshold there are only a few dozen visibly available in the whole industry. When I look at some of the big inventories, like BEs, I see 2253 stones offered for sale at the moment, and 125 of those are 2 carats or larger. They are getting bigger, but this one is definitely an outlier.

I can't really comment on the specific diamond in subject because of forum rules but I would like to add my 2c on created diamonds.
Nothing wrong with created diamonds or whatever one chooses to call them in this big information mishmash. I choose to call them created simply because they are not natural. I also don't think these diamonds are grown in "laboratories", I call them factories.

As we all can notice, these created diamonds are slowly becoming more abundant, but still a far cry from the quantities produced by Mother Earth or their respective annual demand by the jewelry industry. The only concern the jewelry industry should have is the unethical behavior of some of their colleagues when mixing the natural meleé with created ones. These players should be publicly shamed by the industry.

In my opinion these created diamonds should be valued on their own merits and not based on the value of natural Diamonds (or as most created diamond marketers attempts to keep their value "just" below the natural value threshold of Diamonds.)

We all know what happens to new technology as it matures, so will the value of created diamonds. I think these created diamonds will be valued eventually on their actual costs of production plus margin instead of the present "natural Diamonds" minus X %.

I believe the best marketing and valuing model will eventually come from Swarovsky as they develop their newly Swarovsky Created Diamonds "Diama" jewelry line.

Another wild guess on my end..., is Swarovsky Created Diamonds (SCD) the new Pepsi in the jewelry world? Time will tell but my hunch is.... :twisted:
 

denverappraiser

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Swarovski is a powerhouse of a company and they've already announced plans to be in this business. We'll see how they decide to do it. Don't be confused by the fact that their signature brand is costume jewelry. This is their push to go upmarket. I'm reminded that one of the biggest names in the Swiss watch business is the Swatch Group. These are the people who made a big splash with those cheap plastic fashion watches in the 80's. Nowadays they're also known as Omega, Bregeut, Tissot and dozens of other fine and well respected Swiss names. Swarovski is definitely a company to watch for those who are following this issue. It's good to live in exciting times.
 

gobble

Rough_Rock
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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Thanks for all the responses. Yes, it seemed like an outlier for a good price but I just didn't know enough about lab diamonds to not get scammed. I think in this case the negatives and uncertainty outweigh the positives.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

So very interesting! It would be great if lab created diamonds were eventually priced realistically based on production cost plus profit, but that will likely take some competition with Swarovski, I would think. Once they are priced realistically, I think they might appeal to those who currently buy higher end simulants as well as those who want a much larger diamond than they could afford if buying natural. Prices are definitely too high now.

Neil, thanks for checking out the size issue for me!
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

I concur with the remarks so far on where the market for synthetics is heading and that there certainly is a place for synthetics in the jewelry industry.

And it looks like the OP is getting the kind of feedback necessary to determine if this stone is something to consider. My advice with any purchase of this magnitude would be to make it with eyes wide open.

I have two primary concerns with the way synthetics are being marketed at this juncture. One of which Yoram already addressed. The notion that the price of a synthetic bears ANY relationship to the price of natural mined diamonds is a false argument and highly misleading to the consumer. As the technology progresses- as also already mentioned in the thread- the price will rapidly fall settling on bare bones production cost factors. Therefore, there will be no secondary market or stored value in a synthetic purchase. If you have $20k to commit to a stone because you like it with no illusions of ever seeing any of that money again in any form, then it makes sense to consider it.

People often claim that diamonds are a bad 'investment' for a consumer, and in the strictest sense of the word, I totally agree. But a fine natural diamond does have residual value, and can be traded or resold. They have intrinsic rarity and a high cost to bring to market. (Debeers just recently announced it is closing a major Canadian mine where hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost trying to make that project profitable.)

The other strong concern I have is that synthetic marketers are falsely positioning themselves as an "ethical alternative" to natural mined diamonds. This is highly misleading. They are playing to the heartfelt sentiments of consumers who want to do good in the world (or at least do no harm). The fact is that the natural diamond industry does tremendous good for millions of people worldwide. It provides the ONLY means for many of the poorest people on the planet to make a living, feed their families, and get access to health care and education for their children. If the market turns away from natural diamonds on the basis of misleading "ethical" claims, millions of the most needy people will be hurt and only a handful hi-tech companies will benefit.
 

diagem

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

Texas Leaguer|1469892906|4060856 said:
The other strong concern I have is that synthetic marketers are falsely positioning themselves as an "ethical alternative" to natural mined diamonds. This is highly misleading. They are playing to the heartfelt sentiments of consumers who want to do good in the world (or at least do no harm). The fact is that the natural diamond industry does tremendous good for millions of people worldwide. It provides the ONLY means for many of the poorest people on the planet to make a living, feed their families, and get access to health care and education for their children. If the market turns away from natural diamonds on the basis of misleading "ethical" claims, millions of the most needy people will be hurt and only a handful hi-tech companies will benefit.
I fully agree with you on the ethical front, hence why I specified that synthetic diamonds are created in "factories" and not laboratories.
Another major issue for created diamond jewelers is the origin of their product. Not where they were mined but by who they were created.
One of the few major league players in the created diamond arena has a dark ethical cloud hovering over them and/or their owners/families.
That's a big issue for jewelers who keep touting ethical, ethical and more ethical!!!
Just like with natural Diamond ethical expectations, jewelers selling created diamond jewelry must do diligence as to "know your supplier" (KYS) even though I think the law doesn't require it as its required by natural Diamond jewelers.
 

denverappraiser

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Re: Could someone give me an honest opinion on this lab diam

The nomenclature game has transcended into silliness. ‘Synthetic’ is apparently unacceptable, even though it’s scientifically correct because so many other things are synthesized. People think it means fake and even though that's not what it means, and never has, appearance trumps reality in some cases. ‘Man-made’ is misogynistic. ‘Cultured’ is misleading. ‘Created’ is just silly. The world and everything in it was created. ‘Laboratory grown’ is calling a factory a lab. Jeez. The FTC doesn’t help much. They’re working on redoing this, but the actual guidelines themselves were last updated in 2008. This industry didn’t even exist at the time.
 
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