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Wedding conversion...

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rainbowtrout

rainbowtrout

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
2,105
Hi all--

So I''ve been absent (bad me!) for some months bc grad school_ wedding planning is kicking my BUTT!!!!!

Anyway, I''ve popped back in because I know from time to time a thread about Inter-religious relationships surfaces (mainly Jewish-Something Else), and I wanted to put myself out there for anyone in the boards who might have a question or be going through this at the moment *cough* *pause*:

I''m converting. Yup. Bet din May 15, mikveh to follow.


So if any brides or grooms here have worried, thought, or are curious about the whole process, I would be happy to tell you about my experience.

-----------------------------------------------
(anyone curious about my wedding for May 25---AHHH. It should be fine. IT WILL BE FINE. Breathe, RT, breathe. Finals over May 12. Conversion May 15. Final fitting May 16? Wedding May 25.

Things are stressful enough on the home front that FI has been delegated the rest of the wedding planning until my finals are over. GAH horrible semester ack.
 
just for fun, a link to the fabulous (and yes, totally kosher) mikveh in Boston:

http://www.mayyimhayyim.org/index.asp
 
Welcome to the tribe, rainbowtrout!
 
thanks!
 
kudos to you! its definitely not the easiet religion to convert to or live by!! i hope youll pop back in after the 15th and the wedding etc.. i would love to hear about your experiences!
 
mazel tov!
 
Thanks SG & Smiles!
Smiles, I think it depends a lot on how much you enjoy the ''obligations'' and on what flavor you choose to convert to..I''m not promising to cover my head, etc.
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Date: 4/13/2008 8:34:20 AM
Author: rainbowtrout
Thanks SG & Smiles!

Smiles, I think it depends a lot on how much you enjoy the 'obligations' and on what flavor you choose to convert to..I'm not promising to cover my head, etc.
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Yeah, I was wondering about that comment too as I dont think practicing Judaism is any more taxing than, say being Catholic or Christian or whatever. Unless you are going to keep a kosher home, in which case that's a bit more work but people have been managing that for hundreds of years and more so it's doable. I'd never even thought you'd be covering your head (or wearing a wig for that matter)...If Smiles is talking about being Orthodox then that is a whole other ball of wax and yeah, that would be extremely difficult for most to do...But then again, I dont think most Orthodox men would marry a converted woman, either, would they?
 
Well, I think that if said Orthodox man had fallen head over heels for the woman, and she really had an Orthodox conversion...perhaps. It depends on the degree of Orthodoxy as well (I live in Crown Heights with the Hadisim, for example, and I doubt they marry many converts).

I have heard that the community will revoke a convert''s status if she does not abide by the mitzvot in the most upstanding way (which if it was a halakic conversion than shouldn''t be able to do, but whatever).

Then of course there is the Israel issue right now with the Orthodox a** rabbinate refusing to marry Reform Jewish couples whose mothers converted (hello! with a bet din and mikvah!) because it wasn''t up to their standards. Or, occansionally, just refusing Reform couples period on the basis that they aren''t actually Jewish.
 
I have a question! My BF is Jewish and I am not religious. We have talked about it a lot while he says he doesn''t care and his family doesn''t mind, but of course they would all prefer if I did convert. I have looked into it and have gone from yes I will, to no I wont and back about 100 times. So basically what are the reasons that made you decide to convert?
 
Hi Rizz! Boy do I know that feeling, the "well you''re great but you''d be even BETTER if you were Jewish!" Now I do understand that position, but I also know it is frustrating as heck. I think it helps to remember that Jews are only 2% of the population--assimilation and intermarriage are a REAL concern, not just something they are being "racist" about. (not that you implied that!)

Before I say this I do not mean to diss anyone who chose to convert for other reasons--but for me personally I had to truly have a spiritual connection with the religion to feel honest about converting. FI NEVER not once pressured me, he even pretended he thought my converting was a bad idea until he knew I really wanted to do it for me and not for him or his family.

Anyway, I have never had a religous tradition or a religious upbringing of any real kind (one parent is Scientologist and the other is Tibetan Buhddist). I never really felt comfortable with the atheist "crowd" since I was never not spiritual (believed in a soul, etc), just not Religious, without a community and with a very particular kind of belief in God.

So after FI and I got engaged, we had found a rabbi to marry us, and we started going to his services weekly because we enjoyed them. I decided that since we had agreed to raise the children Jewish, I should try to live the religion for a year or two BEFORE we had children to make sure that all would be well. Long story short, 3 rabbis, two cities, eight months of services, and about 8 hours of conversation with said rabbis + many more of reading and thinking, and I decided that this was something I wanted to be a part of.

My concept of God is somewhat different from the traditional Rabbinical Jewish perception of the diety, being more of a panentheistic/kabbalistic perception that God is All and All is in God, rather than that God is a Creator/Director figure...but that''s a whole other ball of wax, and probably not of interest to you. I also have some issues with traditional perceptions of halakah as binding (Rabbis are NOT Diety.)

My suggestion to you would be to talk to you BF''s rabbi, if he or she is a nice person, and see what they have to say. They will probably require a course (not a tough or expensive one, don''t worry) and will want to make sure you are serious about your decision. Usually they make you wait about a year. I kind of got a loophole because I came into it knowing Biblical Hebrew and having studied way over the "Judaism 101" course already, but you should not miss out on the learning experience! Even if you do NOT decide to convert---a absolutely valid choice, we were planning an interfaith wedding until a month ago--I think it will greatly benefit you to go through the process of considering and learning, especially so if you and BF should have children you will know where he is coming from.
 
just out of curiosity, what are you converting from? Is your family religious? And how do they feel about the conversion?
 
I suppose the best answer would be that I am converting from nothing, since I identified with no tradition before. My father is--well, he is dealing reasonably well. I told him I was considering it, I have to make the phone call and tell him it''s going down for sure still. He has some twinges of anti-Semitism in him, but he comforts himself by saying I can still be a Scientologist and a Jew (never been one anyway Dad but OK).

My mother is just happy that I found something that works for me, she thinks people need a tradition to hang onto. She''s a little sad I won''t be Buddhist like her but she''s handling it like a champ.

When I say I had no religious upbringing, I don''t mean that my parents never talked to me about their beliefs, but that there was no community involvement, no religious school, etc. And the two of them never really expected me to be what they were (I suppose Dad assumed I was Scientologist but he didn''t try to "make" me that way).
 
just to clarify since i didnt mean to offend anyone at all is, based on my knowledge and what I have learned through talking to people, and I didn''t necessarily mean that you were going to become orthodox,

(although to answer somebody else''s question if an orthodox man actually ever dated a non-jewish woman to begin with since they probably wouldnt for that reason, any converted person is actually technicall held in the highest esteem because they made the choice to take on being jewish , whatever that might mean to them)


depending on what you do choose to take on it can be more difficult than anoher option. (for example, if you choose to keep a kosher home gorcery shopping instantly becomes a teensy bit harder (depending on where you live) and possibly more expensive). I am not trying to say that it is harder to be jewish than any other religion because all religions have their obligations. just that i really respect you for doing it because I can''t imagine its the easiest thing to do... sorry o confuse people
 
Yeah...technically one would be a ger tzedek, but in reality... While I know some lovely and sincere *individual* Orthodox Jews, unfortunantly my and FI''s experience with the movement as a whole has been less than excellent.

Anyways, FI is rather resistant to the idea of keeping kosher. I don''t feel entirely cheery about converting and not at least adopting some of the dietary conventions. We''ll see. You are right that it can be complicated, it isn''t terrible once you get it set up (and we live in NYC). It''s a complex decision for me.


In any case, thanks for the kudos!
 
I totally understand why it is a big concern, which is the main reason I am considering it. I really respect the religion and understand how important it is, otherwise I dont think I would even consider converting.

Like you said, you needed to have a spiritual connection to feel honest about converting. Which is why I am swaying towards not converting. like your FI my BF does not pressure me at all, he also tells me I shouldn''t do it if I am doing it for him and his family. He says I cant just choose to be Jewish for the wedding and holidays and then just be what I always have been the rest of the time and I totally agree.

I also have had no religious upbringing (both parents are protestant if I had to relate to anything), but I really know nothing about it, so might as well say I''m an astronaut lol

I have been reading up on certain aspects and think I will continue to do so, until I come to a concrete decision. we have discussed when we have kids we will raise them Jewish, so I will educate myself on everything regardless of conversion or not.

thanks for your input, it pretty much solidified what I was thinking!
 
No problem...if you don''t mind me asking, is your BF Reform? The atmosphere at Reform temples is more across the board welcoming to interfaith families making Jewish choices re: children, etc. There are some wonderful Conservative places but it varies more place to place since their rabbis set the tones for each synagogue to a great extent.
 
Congratulations RT - it sounds like you''ve made a really well-thought-out decision for yourself and I''m so happy to hear that you are happy with your decision. Congrats on the upcoming marriage as well, and on making it through your first year of grad school - I won''t say the remaining years are easier, but its a huge accomplishment to make it through the first year and you should be very proud. Good luck on your finals
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Rainbow, Mazel Tov! and welcome back. I''ve been to your mikveh before for a friend''s conversion and have been thinking of going after our aufruf the week before the wedding. We are date twins! Good for you giving all the work to FI till after semester ends. When you want to chat about it, what are you going to do with your ketubah and chuppah? Not now, but when you have time!

Rizz, You have probably heard the old saying, "three Jews, four opinions" eh? There are so many different ways of being Jewish; my sister keeps a kosher home with her husband, my dad is president of his Temple, but is an atheist/Israeli/secular guy who reads the JPost before the NYTimes, my mom is an observant Catholic in the cathedral choir. Yeah, my siblings and I had an orthodox conversion at a mikveh when we were days old. RT''s definition of her Jewishness is fabulous. Have you read any of Anita Diamant? The New Jewish Wedding is such an interesting read. My point is that there is a huge spectrum of what it means to be Jewish. I am marrying an NJB
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and two close friends who grew up with no religious tradition are now marrying NJBs and it has been a process of deciding what aspects of culture will be important in the marriage and in the wedding. My mom cautioned both of them to make sure that they had a religious affiliation to something (UUs?) so that they would have their own space should they decide not to join the tribe. Interesting. If you are wavering between conversion or not or even just curious about Jewish history, check out the book and see what asks you to think about. She wrote The Red Tent as well.
 
very quick,pic of ketubah ;-) bought tallit for DIY huppah.

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thanks AG & swimmer!
 
Hmmm... i tried to make the text post, but the site saves it as an image file, oh well. Anyway, since you asked, I wanted to say that I was totally inspired re: the huppah by this beautiful PS-ers creation--but I lost who posted it!! Was hoping to ask if it was DIY since we are hoping to DIY ours:

huppah.jpg
 
Oh gosh, I'm marrying into a semi-Jewish family.

FFIL is Jewish but non-practising and bacon eating. His sister (FI's aunt) is liberal but keeps kosher. Their eldest son and his wife are ultra-strict orthodox, second son and his wife are liberal and try to keep kosher (but slip up on the tempura prawns) and their daughter has married a Christian (to the horror of Mr. Ultra-Orthodox who refused to attend the wedding
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).

FI's mother is Christian so he is not officially Jewish.

He and I are both atheist, so no problem - but it has been interesting working out menu's for the wedding. I'm a sixteenth Jewish racially, but also have a lot of practicing Jewish relatives. I'm fascinated generally by religions (probably as I subscribe to none) so I know quite a lot more about Judaism than FI does, I also picked up quite a bit of Yiddish when I was working in Antwerp with the Hasidic community there. My father also speaks good Yiddish - he thought it would be fun to learn!

One of my very close friends is Jewish and keeps kosher - she is marrying FI's bestman who is Christian, but their future children will be brought up Jewish.

We were talking about some of the Jewish schools here in London which are excellent. Her kids will qualify, but ours almost certainly wouldn't. Apparently there is a girl whose children go there who is married to a black guy. As their mother is Jewish, they are Jewish, but the other kids at the school keep telling them they can't be as they are visibly mixed-race.

There is also a huge row going on with one school where the children of a non-practising Jewish family were allowed to go, whereas the children of another practising family could not as the mother had converted to Judaism rather than being born Jewish. All very complicated!

Mazel Tov for both the 15th and the 25th!
 
Pandora: Your comment about the Jewish school made me remember this very interesting article I read on the NY Times a few weeks ago. I thought maybe a few people in this thread might be interested in it. It''s about a woman trying to get married in Israel and having to prover her "Jewishness."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/magazine/02jewishness-t.html?scp=3&sq=jewish+wedding&st=nyt
 
Rainbow, love the chuppah, I had to get flagpole stands because I couldn''t figure out how to cover up the concrete buckets that the website I found suggested. The pictured mound of flowers is very nice.

Pandora, you can have kids that are accepted into the Jewish schools of London. Take them to the mikveh for an ortho convo. Strangely enough when I was accepted to university my friend and I were both up for some scholarships and had to prove we were Jewish for one of them. I freaked and called my dad who came up with my certificate of conversion. My friend decided a faxed copy of her Bat Mitzvah would do. How to PROVE something like that? Juliabean''s article hits that nail on the head! Oh, and 1/16th? Not to be offensive, but Goebbels would have considered you Jewish...
 
Date: 4/14/2008 7:44:31 PM
Author: swimmer
Rainbow, love the chuppah, I had to get flagpole stands because I couldn''t figure out how to cover up the concrete buckets that the website I found suggested. The pictured mound of flowers is very nice.

Pandora, you can have kids that are accepted into the Jewish schools of London. Take them to the mikveh for an ortho convo. Strangely enough when I was accepted to university my friend and I were both up for some scholarships and had to prove we were Jewish for one of them. I freaked and called my dad who came up with my certificate of conversion. My friend decided a faxed copy of her Bat Mitzvah would do. How to PROVE something like that? Juliabean''s article hits that nail on the head! Oh, and 1/16th? Not to be offensive, but Goebbels would have considered you Jewish...
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Very true - FI and I both lost members of our families (close in his, extended in mine). His grandfather escaped by sheer chance of being in London on Kristallnacht - they were German Jewish and lived in Berlin - but getting the immediate family out was a sad and long story.

If your children have an ortho conversion, do the parents have to convert too or be practising/believers?
 
Pandora, I should have know you were a member of the tribe...heh...

Seriously though, how does one prove one''s Jewishness if one is, say, a non practicing Agnostic, but with an overtly Jewish name? I didn''t get Bat Mitvah''d so I dont have that either. What do you have to do to "prove" it? I''m curious...

To whomever asked about the chuppah, I think using bamboo poles always looks so nice...
 
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