Conversation with Zales Salesman

[lucyg00se]

Hello, I am posting here to get some more information about Lab Created VS Natural Diamonds in general as I know very little. A little back story is that I wanted to buy my wife a birthday gift of a 1ct total weight diamond stud earrings. So I went to the mall jewelry stores to see what they had, and the prices seemed a little steep compared to online retailers. So I came across Brilliant Earth website and noticed they sold lab created diamonds. From what the websites all say, is that lab created and natural are indistinguishable to the eye, and they are 100% real diamond and will test as such. So I went back to the mall to a Zales store and asked the sales guy if they sold lab created, and he promptly said. "No, all the diamonds we sell are real" I was confused and told him I was under the impression that lab created are real diamonds. He replied that they were synthetic, they just closely replicated real diamond. Just like if you were to buy a fake Rolex, its not the real deal. So I asked him if they are indistinguishable and he said no but they just are really hard to tell apart. However someone like him with a good eye who knows what to look for and he can tell because he has the experience. He said most of the time they test as moisennite on the tester. He was definitely discouraging and seemed to scoff as he said "If you want to buy a nice piece of jewelry, why would you buy a fake?" I explained to him I was concerned with the environmental impact mined stones carry, which he seemed clueless about. This is discouraging as I was contemplating the lightbox earrings as well. Does any of the information he gave me sound true? I am on the fence as my wife was all for the concept of lab created diamonds, especially if they were cheaper and identical. We are also both concerned with the environmental impact we cause on our planet.

 

[Antique Chic]

The salesman was either ignorant, lying, trying to save the sale, of a combination of these things.

Lab grown diamonds are in every way chemically and structurally identical to mined diamonds. They grow under high pressure in a machine instead of in the earth. They are not imitation like CZ or Moissanite, and there is no way anyone can eyeball them and know they’re lab grown. Most labs will laser inscribe the girdle and under high magnification a jeweler can identify it that way.

Brilliant Earth and Lightbox are both reputable lab grown diamond sources. There is a list of other vendors here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/list-of-mmd-laboratory-grown-diamond-sellers.247602/

Happy diamond buying!

 

[strawrose]

Most people here wouldn’t touch zales with a 10 foot pole. A lot of the reputable lab vendors will supply you with a better diamond than what Zales will “certify.”

 

[Bron357]

The Zales person is talking rubbish. The Zales guy is 10000000% wrong!
A lab grown diamond is identical to a natural mined diamond except that they are generally type 2 A (higher boron ions) and this can only be detected by very advanced testing. As in a top gem laboratory.
No person without specialized lab equipment that can check composition at an atomic level can tell a lab grown diamond from a natural mined diamond.
Full stop.
Moissanite is a diamond “look a like” it is made of a different chemical composition. it is easily distinguished by the fact that it is doubly refractive gem. Diamonds are singly refractive.
The tester the Zales guy is referring to is a Presidium gem tester. This device checks the heat transfer rate of the gem being tested. Moissanite and diamond have a similar heat transfer level and can both go “into the diamond zone”, though a higher calibrated device can distinguish between the two. The Presidium gem tester is mostly used to distinguish cubic zirconia from other gems. Glass or CZ have very low heat transfer levels.
No proper jeweller and definately no gemologist uses just “their eyes” or a Presidum or other brand “gem tester” to identify gemstones. There are many gems that look similar that necessitate in depth testing be it with a spectroscope, checking specific gravity, refractive index or microscopic viewing. So him saying he can tell just by looking is total and utter rubbish.
The biggest problem you have is that people throw around the term “lab diamond” indiscriminately. Do they mean a “diamond like” material created in the lab ie Cubic Zirconia or Moissanite or do they mean laboratory grown genuine diamonds?
However with a Loupe you can ID a lab grown diamond, they are inscribed on the girdle as such.

 

[JPie]

The Zales guy was telling you a lot of BS to get you to buy from him.

If you’re concerned about environmental impact, check out antique and vintage jewelry too.

 

[bmfang]

The Zales guy was talking out of his ass.

 

[jeffportnoy]

I am a car guy so I’ll make this analogy. Lab diamonds are like the Pur Sang Bugatti or Shelby American Cobra recreations (among others). These have fully interchangeable parts with the original cars and, while they don’t cost $1,000,000+, are not cheap. The recreations still cost well over $200,000. In many ways they are better because they can be driven like a car instead of staying locked away, and used only at special events, due to the fear of damaging something so historical and irreplaceable.
Recreations require looking up the car’s VIN number to determine whether they were manufactured in the 1960s or 2019.
Replica cars are built to resemble those vehicles however any person familiar with the originals will know they are knock-offs by looking inside or under the hood. These would be equivalent to CZ or Moissanite.

 

[denverappraiser]

So I asked him if they are indistinguishable and he said no but they just are really hard to tell apart. However someone like him with a good eye who knows what to look for and he can tell because he has the experience.

This has not been my experience, and I'll bet I have a lot more experience than him. It takes tools, it takes practice, and sometimes it takes the services of an off-site lab to be sure.

 

[lucyg00se]

Thanks everyone for the detail responses. I have no hesitation to buy a Lab Grown Diamond, and I think I will go with a Brilliant Earth Super Ideal cut pair of 1 carat. I am almost tempted to take it to that moron at Zales and ask him to test it but it would be a waste of time anyway.

 

[kmoro]

The Zales guy is full of crap ... some people make the distinction “natural” vs “man-made”, which I would say is more accurate. Both are crystallized carbon. Sometimes they can be told apart by fluorescence or the type of inclusions ... and it can be extremely difficult to tell them apart.

However, if you’re going lab-created because you think it’s more environmentally friendly, there may be more for you to think about as there is some controversy there.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-lab-grown-diamonds-more-enviro-friendly.247969/

 

[lucyg00se]

Thanks, I have read that article, and its not exactly apples to apples. The impact 225 kilowatt hours (kWh) can be offset with carbon credits. Mining equipment produces Co2 emmisions, which the same can be said. However the mines do not buy carbon credits. Destroying a natural envorinment/habitat digging massive holes in the earth will never be restored. Frankly, I dont see how I can justify moving tonnes of earth and destroy habitats just so i can have a little shiny stone. Also, I dont want a blood diamond.

 

[MissStepcut]

You should get the Lightbox ones since they make your size.

 

[jeffportnoy]

Thanks everyone for the detail responses. I have no hesitation to buy a Lab Grown Diamond, and I think I will go with a Brilliant Earth Super Ideal cut pair of 1 carat. I am almost tempted to take it to that moron at Zales and ask him to test it but it would be a waste of time anyway.

You should get the Lightbox ones since they make your size.

This—-^
They aren’t graded but they are made by DeBeers who have very consistent quality control. The company is being tricky by offering high quality labs then saying “pfft they are just for fun times...we don’t grade them.”

 

[lucyg00se]

I have narrowed it down to Lighhtbox and Brilliant Earth,, but II am on the fence. It seems like it s worth it to pay a little more for the BE stones, because I know I am getting an ideal cut. However it seems like LB is the luck of the draw. What do you guys think? My wife nor I know anything about diamonds. Will she really know the cut difference? I have read that cut is everything but I doubt I would be able to tell unless they were side by side

 

[OoohShiny]

From what I have read, the LB diamonds are G or higher in colour, VS+ in clarity, and although a touch leaky under the table under an ASETscope, are pretty good cut-wise.

I am not sure how consistent they are from stone-to-stone, but I would imagine that as everything else in their production is automated, the cutting is likely to be designed to be equally regulated!

As it's distance selling, I believe that you would be entitled to free returns within a certain time, so I think you might as well order the LB diamonds to see if you like them

 

[dwts]

I have narrowed it down to Lighhtbox and Brilliant Earth,, but II am on the fence. It seems like it s worth it to pay a little more for the BE stones, because I know I am getting an ideal cut. However it seems like LB is the luck of the draw. What do you guys think? My wife nor I know anything about diamonds. Will she really know the cut difference? I have read that cut is everything but I doubt I would be able to tell unless they were side by side

I would recommend giving the Lightbox a try first, if you have the time to return if you don’t like the look of them in person, and then you can always return them and go with the Brilliant Earth. I ordered two .25 carat round from Lightbox and used them as side stones for my e-ring. I posted a video on another thread, if you’re interested. I know that size is a little smaller than what you are looking at, but I found them to be really beautiful and very sparkly! Good luck!

 

[DoeEyes]

Oh you should def get LB before BE if you want two .5 carat stones. No question. There's a 30 day free return you just pay the original shipping which is $15 if you don't like it but I guarantee you will love it. My engagement ring is LB and it's perfect. I also ordered one of their 1 carat pierced pendants and it was equally gorgeous but I decided I didn't want the hole so I returned it (easy painless process) and waiting for a full carat in a regular setting without the hole.

 

[jeffportnoy]

2 ct labs from DeBeers.

 

[Matthewgolf34]

Oh you should def get LB before BE if you want two .5 carat stones. No question. There's a 30 day free return you just pay the original shipping which is $15 if you don't like it but I guarantee you will love it. My engagement ring is LB and it's perfect. I also ordered one of their 1 carat pierced pendants and it was equally gorgeous but I decided I didn't want the hole so I returned it (easy painless process) and waiting for a full carat in a regular setting without the hole.

FP—lightbox has .9 carats available for $900. FYI

 

[DoeEyes]

FP—lightbox has .9 carats available for $900. FYI

Saw that. Keep waffling on whether I want to do it or not. If they ever release a full carat for the same price I'll be annoyed. But if they never do and then this isn't available later I'll also be pissed.

Comparing .88 and 1 carat on diamdb, I can tell the difference. Not huge but it's there. Ugh.

 

[Runningmama]

Saw that. Keep waffling on whether I want to do it or not. If they ever release a full carat for the same price I'll be annoyed. But if they never do and then this isn't available later I'll also be pissed.

Comparing .88 and 1 carat on diamdb, I can tell the difference. Not huge but it's there. Ugh.

It’s actually a significant difference. I had a .9 and 1 ct and could not adjust to the 0.9 so I returned it.

 

[OoohShiny]

Saw that. Keep waffling on whether I want to do it or not. If they ever release a full carat for the same price I'll be annoyed. But if they never do and then this isn't available later I'll also be pissed.

Comparing .88 and 1 carat on diamdb, I can tell the difference. Not huge but it's there. Ugh.

Hey frogplus,

You might like to read Garry's recent post if you have not already done so!

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-diamonds-for-the-better.249285/#post-4557491

I think it sounds promising in terms of both long-term MMD quality and also pricing