Wedding Contracts, schmontracts... Gypsy are you out there?

[goldenstar]

Gypsy the contracts goddess,

I know you say that contracts are a wishlist, but some vendors have a "take it or leave it" attitude. And honestly, I don''t have as much bargaining power as they do. They have a line of couples who will sign whatever they are given (maybe because they don''t know any better).

I don''t know how hard to push with some of them. Well, one vendor in particular. There is a clause I don''t care for, but I don''t know if I''m willing to walk away becasuse of it. I really, really want this vendor for my wedding.

Here''s the offending clause: "In the event of a postponement or cancellation, monies paid are non-refundable but may be applied to future services, subject to ______''s availability."

A retainer is paid at the time of the K, and the balance is due two weeks before the event. Even if some crazy natural disaster shut down the wedding the night before, I would not get the money back. I tried to include a Force Majeure clause but vendor is resisting. We''ve been emailing each other back and forth and I don''t agree with V''s logic. I''m trying to decide how hard to push. I don''t want to ruin our rapport, its one of the best things we have going.

I was thinking about getting wedding insurance anyway, and this situation is really helping with that decision. Would it be a total cop out if I just signed the darn thing and relied on insurance as our safety net?

Everyone is free to chime in...

 

[Gypsy]

Darn it! It ate my post.
My disclaimer: Following is Not legal advice. Just friendly advice to a fellow PSer. Double check all this on your own.

Okay here are the highlights:

A) FYI, a force majeure clause should have a specific performance clause with it (in event of failure... blah, blah, blah, party irreparably harmed... injunctive relief."

B) if the contract isn't very detailed and doesn't include the following i) a disclaimer of statutory protections ii) and a governing law provision that says someplace like timbuktu where they don't have buyer protection laws there's hope. Check CA state SERVICES (not goods, although arguement could be made for a goods and services contract it's more a services contract) contract consumer protection laws (like UCC but for services), and use that to your advantage. Most lawyers would prefer to have explicit warranties than implicit ones. This assumes you are dealing with someone with accesss to a lawyer. Big assumption, sometimes with these vendors. Still consumer protection laws can scare the heck out of lay persons too. In order to preserve relationship, just ask genuinely confused... like you don't understand WHY a place would prefer to leave their protection to statutory laws in place to protect CONSUMERS over the big bad corporations, instead of spelling out protections in a contract. Granted for some reason I am assuming this is a big corporation instead of say, a photographer... but depending on the laws they can still protect you.

C) Try to do a less drastic change to some of the wording, if they will let you. The problem is that you have to be ready to walk away AND they have to want your business ---to get changes if. None of this works out you have a decision to make. At a minimum... try to get the folllowing changes put in:

""In the event of a postponement or cancellation by (whatever term that refers to YOU in the contract), all monies paid are non-refundable but may be applied, in full, to future services subject to ____ reasonable availability.

I'd like to add something like if future services are unreasonably withheld then you get your money back. But it may not fly. This sucks for you. Don't jump on the 'reasonable' language just yet though, it's a double edged sword, and I need to think about it.

If this isn't your venue, I have to tell you, I'd be ready to walk personally.


D) If you HAVE to book with them BUY WEDDING INSURANCE that will cover their default. Is it ideal? HECK NO. But it's much better than nothing. Don't tell them you are doing it either, they'll get lazy and just tell you your insurance will cover it. You can sue them if they default anyway, regardless of the insurance. Again, not ideal.

 

[goldenstar]

Thank you Gypsy!

No, its not the venue. whew... That is final and went rather smoothly.

I need to digest all this. I hate that this is about our wedding so I feel all emotional about it.

Its such a trade off...either I take what they're offering and have my absolute favorite vendor or I get a more fair contract but feel so-so about vendor. If it were all business I'd hold out for the best deal I could get, but this is about more than money.

I'm not sure that the vendor would worry too much about me walking away. I think they have plenty of business and that I could easily be replaced.

Argh, stupid wedding industry.

ETA: The folks at said vendor are sweethearts. I don't want anyone to get the impression that they're greedy monsters. Their contract just sucks.

I have found new meaning to the phrase "Ignorance is Bliss".

 

[Gypsy]

I don't have the impression they are monsters. Honestly I got the impression that they were probably just not contract savvy and are worried about adding legalese into a document they aren't all that comfortable with and view as a nasty necessity. Not everyone finds them fun and exciting like I do (twisted but true!).

I ditched a florist because of her contract... plus her pricing. And well, at the time everyone advised me that things happen for a reason. And they did. I can't advise you what to do. It IS an emotional thing. But you are spending a lot of money... this is something very important to you, and well... at the least its food for thought.

I know that either you will book them and protect yourself with insurance, or walk away and find another equally fabulous vendor. I KNOW IT. I can help you AT ALL further, please let me know. I'll check on this thread often for you. Promise.


Sleep on it for now. It will be there in the morning.

I should add, that while actual court/ arbitratror judgements will vary... IF the contract doesn't specifically disclaim the statutory protections and isn't governed by Timbuktu laws, in THEORY you could still be protected by the consumer protection laws even IF you sign up to the contract as is... because it COULD be interpreted that in the event OF YOUR default you lose the deposit-- despite the vaguenss of the languge. So... that's something to keep in mind too. It's a THEORY, and like all things legal IT DEPENDS... on the actual facts, on the position of the moon, whether the judge's wife was nice to him or not... but it IS a theory. And of course it also depends on what said consumer protection laws for services say. And I don't remember. I deal mostly in goods, mostly. And almost all of the time we are disclaiming anything that doesn't benifit us, and the other side is disclaiming anything that doesn't benifit them... so it all gets disclaimed in the end.

 

[Gypsy]

May I ask what TYPE of vendor it is? Maybe we can recommend alternative in your price range??? Maybe???

 

[goldenstar]

lol Gypsy... One of my favorite sayings is "it depends on what the judge had for breakfast".

uhhhhmmm... I''m not sure I want to say what type of vendor it is just yet. The anonymity is good because I can freely talk about whats going on without harming anyone.

Its not a florist. If it were I would feel better about looking around for other vendors. I really haven''t seen another vendor that I like as much as the one at issue. While the budget is not unlimited, we did allocate a nice chunk to this area so we have flexibility on who we can hire.

No suggestions yet please. Maybe later...

This wedding stuff is starting to BUG me. I''m trying to keep things in perspective and think about how lucky I am. We have hired a wedding planner but our package with her doesn''t include vendor procurement unless its related to the design elements of the wedding. I can''t wait till its time for her to take the lead. I really trust her. I don''t wanna negotiate with vendors anymore.