Contemplating what July fourth means today...

[missy]

From Bloomberg dot com

"

Risks and rewards​

The implosion of the Titan deep-sea submarine that took the lives of all five people aboard was shocking, sad and horrifying. There are thousands more who take grave risks at sea, many of them people who leave home and head to other countries in search of jobs or freedom from oppression, often at the risk of life and limb. On Independence Day, many Americans will think of the Statue of Liberty and its neighboring Ellis Island, where so many immigrants got their first sight of the US. But for today’s refugees, the world isn’t prepared to mobilize and come to the rescue when their lives are in danger. More than 1,200 people died on the Mediterranean Sea last year, according to Human Rights Watch, many of them migrants trying to reach Europe. Just last month, scores of people died when a trawler capsized off of southern Greece, according to reports. Even so, no European ships patrol the areas where boats run into trouble and the European Union’s border and coast guard conducts aerial surveillance in service of interceptions and returns, not rescues. It’s not only at sea. Since 2014, almost 8,000 international migrants have gone missing in the Americas, according to the Missing Migrants Project data collection program. That figure is likely an undercount. Efforts to find them are rare and get news coverage only infrequently. Meanwhile, pictures of the recovered OceanGate Titan debris still dominate the news, even as investigators try to ferret out a cause. There was a lot of criticism of the imbalance in attention paid between the Titan and the capsized trawler catastrophes. There needs to be reform, especially of global attitudes and policies that demonize refugees, and two-tiered health systems that deprive the poor of access to needed care. The Titan was headed to the wreckage of the Titanic before it disappeared. The sinking of the Titanic led to another huge mobilization. Although 1,500 died, another ship — the Carpathia — wove through a maze of icebergs, plucking 700 survivors from the ocean. Food, clothing and medical care were provided onboard and at Manhattan’s Pier 54, where they arrived a few days after the disaster. We need more of that spirit directed to the thousands of people who take risks with their lives under threat. Their bravery is no less, and their lives mean just as much as any other. — John Lauerman

"

Is the USA still the land of opportunity and freedom for all?

 

[vintageinjune]

Is the USA still the land of opportunity and freedom for all?

Not that I can see, but I also never really bought into that ever truly having been the case.

 

[missy]

Not that I can see, but I also never really bought into that ever truly having been the case.

That’s sad. I definitely feel in America one has the greatest chance of soaring to whatever heights they desire if one puts in the hard work, time and energy. Compared to other countries at least. It’s why so many still want to come here imo.

 

[monarch64]

I don’t feel very free.

When I was a kid in the 80s, I used to love borrowing “Free to Be You and Me” from the public library. I can’t remember now whether it was the movie version or the record, but I insisted on borrowing it (or renewing) every time we went to the library. My mother was an insanely avid reader and we went at least once a week. She was good friends (still is) with the head librarian and was allowed to borrow however many books she wanted—she read so voraciously and quickly that a stack of 10 was never enough. I have no idea how she did that while taking care of a house, two children, and a farm, but she did and she’s still reading just as much in her 80s.

Anyway, I loved that movie/record and I was just a little kid. The messages in it now are ALL at risk of being walked back into the 1950s and earlier. Growing up learning that every US Citizen was meant to have the same opportunities and that we were all “United” and in this together as a country was a pretty cool thing at the time. Coming of age in the 90s when music like “Let’s Talk About Sex” (Salt n Pepa) came out and safe sex was being talked about all the time was really important to me and helped shape my adult life.

…Probably much to the dismay of evangelical conservatives.

Freedoms we have fought for and held dear for decades are beginning to disappear. This country is not the same and since 2016 I’ve been seriously contemplating getting out as I know many others have. I have a child in middle school and when she finishes high school, if our freedoms continue to be eroded, I will be prepared to expatriate. It’s not a question of money for me now, it’s just a fulfillment of my parental responsibilities and making sure she gets off to college or university well-equipped enough that she won’t need to see or be with me as much. I’m sure tech will advance enough to make virtual visits even more realistic and hopefully travel will become more streamlined as well so we can physically visit each other.

To be perfectly honest, I am no longer proud to be American. In fact, I’m almost ashamed at this point.

ETA: @missy I’m sorry—I was responding mainly to your thread title and not necessarily the article you posted. As far as media attention given to one tragedy over another, well, I don’t think any of us are very happy with media these days. Bunch of trickery, smoke and mirrors with that facet of US propa—I mean culture.

 

[missy]

I don’t feel very free.

When I was a kid in the 80s, I used to love borrowing “Free to Be You and Me” from the public library. I can’t remember now whether it was the movie version or the record, but I insisted on borrowing it (or renewing) every time we went to the library. My mother was an insanely avid reader and we went at least once a week. She was good friends (still is) with the head librarian and was allowed to borrow however many books she wanted—she read so voraciously and quickly that a stack of 10 was never enough. I have no idea how she did that while taking care of a house, two children, and a farm, but she did and she’s still reading just as much in her 80s.

Anyway, I loved that movie/record and I was just a little kid. The messages in it now are ALL at risk of being walked back into the 1950s and earlier. Growing up learning that every US Citizen was meant to have the same opportunities and that we were all “United” and in this together as a country was a pretty cool thing at the time. Coming of age in the 90s when music like “Let’s Talk About Sex” (Salt n Pepa) came out and safe sex was being talked about all the time was really important to me and helped shape my adult life.

…Probably much to the dismay of evangelical conservatives.

Freedoms we have fought for and held dear for decades are beginning to disappear. This country is not the same and since 2016 I’ve been seriously contemplating getting out as I know many others have. I have a child in middle school and when she finishes high school, if our freedoms continue to be eroded, I will be prepared to expatriate. It’s not a question of money for me now, it’s just a fulfillment of my parental responsibilities and making sure she gets off to college or university well-equipped enough that she won’t need to see or be with me as much. I’m sure tech will advance enough to make virtual visits even more realistic and hopefully travel will become more streamlined as well so we can physically visit each other.

To be perfectly honest, I am no longer proud to be American. In fact, I’m almost ashamed at this point.

ETA: @missy I’m sorry—I was responding mainly to your thread title and not necessarily the article you posted. As far as media attention given to one tragedy over another, well, I don’t think any of us are very happy with media these days. Bunch of trickery, smoke and mirrors with that facet of US propa—I mean culture.

No worries Monnie. I also loved that Marlo Thomas album and I also agree with you about women’s freedoms being eroded slowly but surely. I hope we can continue to fight because I don’t see any other alternative unfortunately. And from my perspective I don’t see where the grass is greener. I am not ready to give up. For our sake and for our children’s sake

 

[kenny]

America today is not worth celebrating.

 

[monarch64]

No worries Monnie. I also loved that Marlo Thomas album and I also agree with you about women’s freedoms being eroded slowly but surely. I hope we can continue to fight because I don’t see any other alternative unfortunately. And from my perspective I don’t see where the grass is greener. I am not ready to give up. For our sake and for our children’s sake

I hate to be a quitter, but the places in the US that I had considered retiring to are in states that are as woefully backwards as the one I’m currently in.

And I don’t mean to make what I’m saying only about women’s issues. There is obviously so much more going on than that and I will NEVER understand why or how those who want to ban things and censor others cannot see they’re doing exactly what they are allegedly against. They have continually sought government interference while claiming to want the opposite. It’s absolute insanity and I’m not being hyperbolic.

 

[vintageinjune]

That’s sad. I definitely feel in America one has the greatest chance of soaring to whatever heights they desire if one puts in the hard work, time and energy. Compared to other countries at least. It’s why so many still want to come here imo.

I agree with the assessment that as a country, we offer many opportunities that cannot be had in other parts of the world.

That said... I worry those opportunities will disappear sooner rather than later. Also, if "hard work, time, and energy" = prosperity, my parents would have been millionaires eons ago. There is a lot more luck involved (as well as knowing the right people) than our society wishes to give credit to, because it doesn't play nicely with the "pulling one's self up by the bootstraps" nonsense we've been fed our whole lives. It behooves those in power to have us believe that we must each individually make our own way, because if we stopped competing against one another and instead worked together to change the systems and structures that are preventing the average person from being capable of doing whatever it is that brings meaning and purpose into one's life, well.... anyone following the protests in France? That's what kind of unity I aspire to see in this country. I find it very telling that neither the France protests over the government raising the retirement age from 62 to 64, nor the capsized trawler incident, are being covered much here in the USA.

To @monarch64 's point about not feeling very free, it resonates strongly with me. Attacks against me and mine seem to be never ending, and laws preventing access to the healthcare we need for my family are being passed, as well as legalizing discrimination. We might not have a choice in leaving the USA for our safety if things keep going the way they are.

There are absolutely enough resources in this country to take care of everyone here, as well as those who wish to be here. It's just, that sort of thing has never been a priority. The powers that be would rather make us believe that the mother who walked five thousand miles with her two children in search of a place where she can safely raise them is the problem, and not the inequitable distribution of wealth. Gender pay gap? That could be eliminated overnight if companies either grew a conscience or were forced via regulation to do so. Pitting us against each other and ensuring most of us are barely getting by has been an incredibly effective strategy for population behavioral management. The "othering", as a friend called it.

Sorry about the somewhat random assortment of thoughts, as this topic brings up many, many issues in my mind, and then each of those get their own set of tangents, etc.

That said, while I am deeply disappointed in America as it is today, I have hope that we can turn things around.

 

[monarch64]

A little comic relief:

 

[missy]

Also, if "hard work, time, and energy" = prosperity, my parents would have been millionaires eons ago.

My question is where would they have been able to be millionaires? In the USA one has the greatest opportunity where one can be successful if one puts in the time and energy and hard work. If one is motivated yes. I didn’t say anything about being a millionaire. Though honestly that’s not saying much anymore. But I digress. My point was that this country offers opportunities other countries don’t. I’m not saying the USA is the best. I don’t believe that. We have a long way to go to improve. Education. Healthcare. Quality of life. But I can’t think of any other country I’d rather live where there are no big issues. Every country has big problems. Every single country. The issues are different. But they all have them. Including the USA. My perspective.

That said, while I am deeply disappointed in America as it is today, I have hope that we can turn things around.

I feel the same.

 

[monarch64]

I don’t think money matters as much in those countries that are considered the happiest in the world. This article cites “social trust” as a big factor in happiness. We may have that here on a micro scale as far as communities we’ve formed that exclude others, but it sounds like it’s a general thing for other countries ranking high on this list:

These are the top 10 happiest countries in the world

Nordic countries have dominated the list once again.

www.housebeautiful.com

 

[missy]

I don’t think money matters as much in those countries that are considered the happiest in the world. This article cites “social trust” as a big factor in happiness. We may have that here on a micro scale as far as communities we’ve formed that exclude others, but it sounds like it’s a general thing for other countries ranking high on this list:

These are the top 10 happiest countries in the world

Nordic countries have dominated the list once again.

www.housebeautiful.com

These studies are quite subjective. We all use different criteria with which we judge happiness. I do think in large part it comes down to expectations. Americans (many of us) tend to have high expectations and want more and more whereas others are happy with less.

https://thehabitat.com/life/what-are-the-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/

“Finish people also have lower expectations for happiness which makes them more content with less.”

As for money having money makes life easier but it doesn’t make one happier. As long as one has enough for shelter food and other basic needs and comfort studies have shown more money doesn’t equate to more happiness


Interestingly enough in 2019 Finland had a very high suicide rate. But that’s a discussion for another day

 

[monarch64]

These studies are quite subjective. We all use different criteria with which we judge happiness. I do think in large part it comes down to expectations. Americans (many of us) tend to have high expectations and want more and more whereas others are happy with less.

https://thehabitat.com/life/what-are-the-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/

“Finish people also have lower expectations for happiness which makes them more content with less.”

As for money having money makes life easier but it doesn’t make one happier. As long as one has enough for shelter food and other basic needs and comfort studies have shown more money doesn’t equate to more happiness


Interestingly enough in 2019 Finland had a very high suicide rate. But that’s a discussion for another day

Certainly I will never find a perfect example and popped that one in for the sake of the thread, not science.

Money absolutely makes one happier. Ask any person who has ever struggled to pay for basic needs such as food, electricity, and water. I’ve been there. I am grateful to be where I am now and it is only because of generational wealth that I am.

 

[missy]

Certainly I will never find a perfect example and popped that one in for the sake of the thread, not science.

Money absolutely makes one happier. Ask any person who has ever struggled to pay for basic needs such as food, electricity, and water. I’ve been there. I am grateful to be where I am now and it is only because of generational wealth that I am.

As long as one has sufficient (and that definition will vary depending on circumstances) money having more does not make one happier. Let me see if I can find a reference for that comment
Quick search...I am sure there are other articles referencing this because when I read these studies years ago it stayed with me. As long as one has enough money for basic needs and wants one having more money does not make one happier.



"Wellbeing expert Gethin Nadin tells us that “Money contributes to happiness when it helps us make basic needs but the research tells us that above a certain level more money doesn’t actually yield more happiness.”






Also, if you look at some of the "top happiness" countries not all of them have wealthy citizens. So that in and of itself indicates that money does not buy happiness. Not true happiness. IMO that comes from one's self and peace and contentment go a long way towards happiness. In my opinion.


And very interesting as this survey indicates the USA is in the top 15 of happiest countries

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/world-happiest-countries-2023-wellness/index.html

Food for thought indeed. But I stand by my initial comments that "happy" is very subjective and people vary across the world. Americans are demanding and expect a lot more than other people in other countries. Gratitude goes a LONG way i making one happy as well. I recommend to anyone who is less than happy to look inside and be grateful for all you do have. Not directing this at any specific person. Just the general you.

 

[telephone89]

Not american, but many of those top countries have strong social systems where the govt takes care of citizens. The top 10 all include paid mat leave, sweden topping the list at a whopping 480 days! They have health care covered, they are not worried about going bankrupt by getting into an accident. Perhaps they aren't as greedy/demanding because they are providing each other as a country. It's interesting to me that they are (mainly) COLD places too!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Yeah, our government does not take care about us IMO, Maybe if money and power weren’t priorities, things would be different.
I have zero trust in any politician or government official.

Despite that, I still consider myself patriotic and do love my country and especially those who serve in the military and give up their lives for us.

July 4th was bittersweet this year because I had to work, I would have rather been home with DH and the kids. Money may not be the key to happiness, but I would argue that if I had the money to not have to work on a holiday and could instead spend it with my family, I would have been a whole lot happier. Money gives people the option to prioritize what is truly important and IMO having that freedom leads to greater happiness.

 

[Matata]

I'm contemplating that the 4th was yesterday and no fires were caused by dumbclucks setting them off in a drought stricken state.

 

[Avondale]

I definitely feel in America one has the greatest chance of soaring to whatever heights they desire if one puts in the hard work, time and energy.

I'm afraid I feel quite the opposite, looking at things from the outside in.

I didn't have a happy childhood. I was raised in poverty by a single mom working three jobs just to make ends meet. I had a number of health issues and at a point I developed a serious autoimmune illness that I will live with for the rest of my life.

The country where I live in, which is most definitely not among the top European ones, or even among those considered decent, provided me with healthcare that allowed me to overcome my medical challenges, as best as possible. If I was living in the US today, I would've been either in crippling medical debt, or more likely wouldn't have had access to healthcare at all.

In my country I was able to attend a good school and later one of the best high schools in my town, based solely on my merits as a student. I received quality education of which I probably would've been deprived if I lived in the US today.

Later I was able to study in the best university in my country and acquire a masters degree. Again, solely thanks to my hard work and study. The university, just as the schools, is publicly funded, so my student fees were entirely manageable and I was able to pay for them by myself entirely just working internships and summer jobs. If I lived in the US today, I wouldn't have been able to even get close to your best universities and wouldn't have been able to attend university at all without crippling student debt.

Today I have a well respected profession, I work on my own and I own my, albeit small, home. I pulled myself out of the poverty I was born into. I never would've been able to do that if I lived in the US today because I wouldn't have had the social safety nets and opportunities for development which I was afforded in my small and very much not impressive country. No amount of hard work, time and energy would've been able to compensate for that.

Yes, the US definitely has everything necessary to allow a corporation to grow to soaring, dizzying heights. But an individual, faced with life's challenges, is more likely to be buried rather than walk and live a regular life, let alone take off and fly.

 

[missy]

@Avondale I am glad everything worked out well for you
just to add many still want to come here. In pursuit of the “American dream” and many find their paradise here. I wish for all the privilege to live in whatever country they wish. And to make their lives the best it can be. Isn’t that everyone’s dream after all

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

havn't read the whole thread yet
but
its a day i think of all my American friends and the American people in general, with good will and genuine love in my heart

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I'm contemplating that the 4th was yesterday and no fires were caused by dumbclucks setting them off in a drought stricken state.

great point
pity all the American animals, and it wont be just the 4th, it will go on for weeks
NZ animals know this too
or the firefighers who get called out when they could be at home with their family on the holiday
ban fireworks now

 

[Calliecake]

@Daisys and Diamonds, Please know you are a treasure on this forum.

 

[canuk-gal]

@Daisys and Diamonds, Please know you are a treasure on this forum.

+ a billion

 

[PastryGirl]

These studies are quite subjective. We all use different criteria with which we judge happiness. I do think in large part it comes down to expectations. Americans (many of us) tend to have high expectations and want more and more whereas others are happy with less.

https://thehabitat.com/life/what-are-the-ten-happiest-countries-in-the-world/

“Finish people also have lower expectations for happiness which makes them more content with less.”

As for money having money makes life easier but it doesn’t make one happier. As long as one has enough for shelter food and other basic needs and comfort studies have shown more money doesn’t equate to more happiness


Interestingly enough in 2019 Finland had a very high suicide rate. But that’s a discussion for another day

I wonder how these studies are operationalizing happiness.

 

[PastryGirl]

As long as one has sufficient (and that definition will vary depending on circumstances) money having more does not make one happier. Let me see if I can find a reference for that comment
Quick search...I am sure there are other articles referencing this because when I read these studies years ago it stayed with me. As long as one has enough money for basic needs and wants one having more money does not make one happier.



"Wellbeing expert Gethin Nadin tells us that “Money contributes to happiness when it helps us make basic needs but the research tells us that above a certain level more money doesn’t actually yield more happiness.”






Also, if you look at some of the "top happiness" countries not all of them have wealthy citizens. So that in and of itself indicates that money does not buy happiness. Not true happiness. IMO that comes from one's self and peace and contentment go a long way towards happiness. In my opinion.


And very interesting as this survey indicates the USA is in the top 15 of happiest countries

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/world-happiest-countries-2023-wellness/index.html

Food for thought indeed. But I stand by my initial comments that "happy" is very subjective and people vary across the world. Americans are demanding and expect a lot more than other people in other countries. Gratitude goes a LONG way i making one happy as well. I recommend to anyone who is less than happy to look inside and be grateful for all you do have. Not directing this at any specific person. Just the general you.

There are some ideas found in strain theory that talk about the "strain" felt by those who cross over into a different socioeconomic class--they can be unhappy or less happy now having to maintain their status. While those in the lower classes do not always feel the strain of needing more and more (sometimes due to greed.) Depends on the theorist.

More money has made me much, much happier. But as someone else pointed out, that is because I used to have nothing. I have struggled.

Edit after reading more posts:

I wanted to post a funny video about what the Bronx was like on the 4th of July. It was really, really bad. Crime is out of control. My mother-in-law lives in one of those really bad areas. She is not from this country originally, and to her, living in one of the worst areas in the Bronx is apparently a step up from her old life. I do not get it, I don't know if she is so used to what she sees that she thinks it is normal--or if this is really indeed a better life than she would have had.

 

[Calliecake]

@monarch64 clearly stated she was talking about people who struggled to pay their basic monthly necessities (food, electricity, water). It’s a bit of a stretch to assume someone struggling monthly to pay the bare bone basics is living a happy life. Stress filled would be a more realistic description of their life.