Considering buying Diamond without Certificate

[plexus21]

Hey everyone! I'm new here but great forum.

I am considering buying a diamond for an engagement ring from the friend of a relative. He says it is a 1.45 VS2 F and quoted me about $9K. However, he cannot produce a certificate. He claims it exists but the wholesaler will not allow him to make a copy. I have not seen the stone (we are doing everything long distance) but a friend of mine has and thought it was nice.

I know this sounds like an easy answer but just wanted to get your thoughts. He has sold a couple stones to friends and relatives.

Thanks!

 

[Christina...]

Hey everyone! I'm new here but great forum.

I am considering buying a diamond for an engagement ring from the friend of a relative. He says it is a 1.45 VS2 F and quoted me about $9K. However, he cannot produce a certificate. He claims it exists but the wholesaler will not allow him to make a copy. I have not seen the stone (we are doing everything long distance) but a friend of mine has and thought it was nice.

I know this sounds like an easy answer but just wanted to get your thoughts. He has sold a couple stones to friends and relatives.

Thanks!

The bolded areas are all areas of concern. If the stone was graded by a reputable lab then there would be no issue of obtaining a copy of the certification or being able to verify it online. An appraisal done by the jeweler who sold the stone means nothing. And the fact that the original jeweler refuses to produce a copy is concerning. Grading is subjective and we can call a stone any color or clarity that we want but it doesn't make it true. We only recommend purchasing stones that have been graded by GIA or AGS because they are the most reputable consistent and accurate labs in the world, and the only way to know exactly what you are purchasing. If you really and truly interested in pursuing this stone I would insist that an independent third party appraisal be performed.

We have heard very few positive experiences when a person purchased from a friend, friend of a friend, or friend of the family. I wouldn't consider this stone based on this alone. It sounds like this person knows very little about diamonds, likely the friend that viewed it on behalf knows very little about diamonds, so to take anything they tell you at face value would be a mistake. This stone needs to either have a report by a reputable lab or an independent third party appraiser before you should even think of considering it.

 

[kenny]

Nope, don't do it.
Buying a diamond from friends or family is usually a bad idea.
For it to be a large, important engagement diamond and for it to have a "lost" report, but "Oh, just trust me that it's F VS1" ... FORGET IT!

Call the lab and tell them the report is lost.
IF they are even able to replace it they most likely will want to examine the diamond.

A NEW report can be obtained from GIA for only $100.
It will take a few weeks, but you can get a rush job for double the fee.
You do not need to be in the industry to get a diamond graded by GIA.
They have locations in NY NY, and Carlsbad CA, and other locations around the world.

http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/LAB_feeschedule_Diamond_07012012_USD.pdf

 

[Christina...]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1539708.asp $9387 with PS discount, it's not an F or a VS1, but likely your friends isn't either and this is graded by GIA. This isn't a recommendation just an example of what you can get new, with lab report and upgrade, trade in, and buy back policies if you wanted. They also come with no questions asked 30-60 day return periods, giving you the opportunity to view the stone in many different environments without commitment. If you would like recommendation on stones we can help you with that too.

 

[kenny]

Here is why you should never buy a diamond without a lab report.
I just did a search over at Bluenile.com for rounds of all of their colors, clarities and cut grades between 1.3 and 1.6 ct. (you are not certain of weight either)
Keep in mind Bluenile doesn't sell junk; J SI2 is the least-expensvie grades they carry, and there are MUCH cheaper grades.



These two diamonds probably look similar to 90% of the public, but differences in the specs results in one costing over ten times the other, $4,728 and $57,763.
A lab report from an independent reputable lab like GIA or AGS is essential to be sure of what you are getting.
It justifies the price.
If it was my money I'd insist on a report from one of those two labs and NOT an appraisal from anyone, because a good lab report carries more weight, and may even cost less.

 

[plexus21]

Thanks guys. This is great info. I was leaning towards passing on the diamond and will definitely do that unless he produces a certificate. I have another option on a good deal- however with an EGL certificate.

 

[denverappraiser]

Don't do it.

If he/she (the wholesaler) is unwilling to back up his grading claims he has a reason. It doesn't matter what the reason is.

There's no shortage of 'wholesalers' out there who would love to sell you a diamond who will treat you and your friend in a more upfront way.

The usual reason, by the way, is that he doesn't own the stone and it's available through other sources. He fears that if you have a copy of the report, you'll shop around for another dealer who will offer you that exact same stone for less money.

 

[04diamond<3]

Yeah I wouldn't do it either. But if you want, I'd send it to GIA for grading. If not, the stone Christina recommended is absolutely stunning!

 

[kenny]

I have another option on a good deal- however with an EGL certificate.

Again don't do it.
It is NOT a good deal.
It's a rip off.

EGL, and several other labs, lies about grades.
The same diamond that EGL grades as F VS1 may get I SI2 from GIA or AGS, or worse.

That's why EGL diamonds SEEM to be such a good deal.

IMHO what EGL (and the vendors who sell such diamonds) does borders on fraud.
I'm astonished in this day and age they still get away with it in the USA.
You may as well buy a diamond with NO report; that's how much I disrespect EGL and those other off-labs.

Only consider diamonds graded by GIA or AGS.
They are not more expensive.
They are just graded more accurately.
In fact we've seen many examples of EGL diamonds getting priced HIGHER than they would have been if graded by GIA.

 

[swingirl]

Hey everyone! I'm new here but great forum.

I am considering buying a diamond for an engagement ring from the friend of a relative. He says it is a 1.45 VS2 F and quoted me about $9K. However, he cannot produce a certificate. He claims it exists but the wholesaler will not allow him to make a copy. I have not seen the stone (we are doing everything long distance) but a friend of mine has and thought it was nice.

I know this sounds like an easy answer but just wanted to get your thoughts. He has sold a couple stones to friends and relatives.

Thanks!

Sounds like he's in it for profit.

 

[kenny]

Hey everyone! I'm new here but great forum.

I am considering buying a diamond for an engagement ring from the friend of a relative. He says it is a 1.45 VS2 F and quoted me about $9K. However, he cannot produce a certificate. He claims it exists but the wholesaler will not allow him to make a copy. I have not seen the stone (we are doing everything long distance) but a friend of mine has and thought it was nice.

I know this sounds like an easy answer but just wanted to get your thoughts. He has sold a couple stones to friends and relatives.

Thanks!

Sounds like he's in it for profit.

Nothing wrong with that.
Everyone selling diamonds is in it for profit.

That's not the problem here.

 

[ame]

I wouldn't buy from this individual, cert or not, frankly. What if something goes wrong? What recourse will you have? Better off avoiding this situation altogether.

 

[denverappraiser]

Supporting your friends businesses is a GOOD thing. Even if they’re making a profit. Actually it’s much more of a concern if they’re not, or even if they’re just claiming they’re not.

Leading your friend to choose their suppliers and run their businesses in a way that delivers high quality goods and services for fair prices to their clients is also a GOOD thing, even if it means taking your business elsewhere. It’ll make their business better than their competitors, and it’ll INCREASE their profits. Bully for them. Maybe they’ll spend even some of that profit at your business. I do willingly pay extra to shop with my friends and neighbors but I go into it with both eyes open. I want to know the facts and I want to make an informed decision. Perhaps I’m biased but I think professional appraisal services play a role in that process. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.