Confused!!!

[tflm]

Hi,

I have been reading the forums for a while as I''m trying to choose an engagement ring. However the more I read the more confused I seem to get. Essentially I was hoping for advice...

I know my GF would prefer a RB cut, she has quite small hands so 1 carat should be ok (I wouldn''t want to go much over 1.2 as I think it might be a little bling). I''m happy to spend up to 8500GBP inc VAT and ring (although I do wonder if it''s worth it as neither I nor my GF care very much for rings). The main things that are confusing me are:

1. Where would people recommend buying? I''ve been down Hatton Cross - it was ok seeing someone in person but I suspect I came across knowing nothing (which is accurate) so I was thinking the internet may be a wiser choice. Some people seem to think the US is great, whereas others feel UK suppliers are as cheap and have better customer services. The names that seem to be mentioned on here are Bestdiamonds, Diamondgeezer, BlueNile, Abazias, Whiteflash and Adiamor. Do people have preferences amongst these or can recommend alternatives.

2. Which labs are best and how important are they? It seem AGS is slightly preferred to GIA due to cut. There are a few other names that seem to have cropped up like HAD and IGI but I''m not sure if they are reliable. Also craftedbyinfinity seem to be recommended but I couldn''t quite work out why.

3. 4Cs. I have to say apart from colour and carat I''m not sure how noticeable these other features are. The shininess or fire of a stone is probably it''s most appealling aspect to my GF (which is why I assume she prefers RBs). I''ve been looking round and I have to say I''ve been screening mainly on ''excellent'' or ''flawless'' simply because I don''t know very much and I don''t want to appear ''cheap'' on the certificate. The following are examples of what I''ve found (priceded without ring and without VAT).

1. 6929 ex VAT
Shape: Round
Carat Weight: 1.15
Color: F
Clarity: IF
Graded By: GIA
Cut Grade: Affinity Ideal
Detailed Diamond Information:
Depth: 61.9%
Table: 55%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.71 x 6.73 x 4.16

2. Price: £7,473 ex VAT
Graded By: GIA
Carat weight:
1.16
Cut: Ideal
Colour: F
Clarity: IF
Depth %:
60.0%
Table %:
58%
Symmetry:
Excellent
Polish:
Excellent
Girdle:
Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet:
None
Fluorescence:
None
Measurements: 6.83 x 6.87 x 4.11 mm

3. Price: £6,920 ex VAT
Graded By: GIA
Carat weight:
1.07
Cut: Ideal
Colour: F
Clarity: IF
Depth %:
61.8%
Table %:
56%
Symmetry:
Excellent
Polish:
Excellent
Girdle:
Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet:
Very Small
Fluorescence:
None
Measurements: 6.53 x 6.60 x 4.06 mm

4. Price : 6910 ex VAT
Shape: Round brilliant-cut
Weight: 1.06cts.
Colour: F - Colourless
Clarity: IF
Fluorescence: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Size: 6.51-6.55x4.06mm
Certificated by: IGI

5. Price: 6552 ex VAT
Shape: Round brilliant-cut
Weight: 1.04cts.
Colour: F - Colourless
Clarity: IF - Best a girl can get
Fluorescence: Moderate Blue
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Size: 6.46-6.48x4.05mm
Certificated by: IGI

4. Choice of ring - My GF would like something quite ''classic''. I was thinking of a Tiffany ring or similar. Are there any real differences (eg are some markedly less secure than others eg 4 prong vs 6 prong) or is it just a matter of taste. She does quite like a ring that her granny had which had 3 stones but I''m not too keen as I think I''d get substantially worse stones in the secondary stones or have to get a worse main stone. Also she thinks she''d like a traditional gold weeding band -> am I right in thinking that means I should avoid platinum as an engagement ring? Also Bluenile seem to have the largest range of diamonds but sadly the worst range in rings, do females think this is true or is it my personal (?poor) taste.

Thanks for all your help in advance!!! I really hate rings now but I know they''re important to girls so I don''t want to make any awful mistakes.

 

[oneandahalfrock]

You''re going to either spend a lot more or get a much smaller stone by going F and flawless; drop down to at least a G or H (still looks colorless) and Vs1 or Vs2 (still should be totally eye clean and even look pretty darn good under a 10x loupe).
Platinum is fine for a wedding set- but it depends on what she likes- from what I hear, now is a great time to buy in platinum since the price of gold is way up anyways.
I like 6 prongs myself- I feel the stone is more protected and with the number and placement of prongs, the stone more round when set.
I know this doesn''t answer everything- I''ll let the experts do that, but hope it helps a smidge

 

[FB.]

GIA and AGS have roughly equivalent grading of clour/clarity. AGS have a better cut grading system, which has a much stricter set of proportions than GIA''s system.
Most other labs have a less strict grading system in all aspects; cut, colour and clarity. A stone certified as "excellent cut", F colur and VS clarity may only grade as "good" cut, H colour and SI clarity if sent to AGS or GIA - and that is why you will find AGS or GIA stones to usually be more expensive; because they are graded much more strictly.

All four C''s are important.
Even a 2ct Flawless D will be like a lifeless lump of glass if it is not well cut.

You will find many different opinions as to the best balance of size, cut, colour and clarity, but most will state that cut should be your number one consideration. I''d rather have a well-cut J SI2 than a poorly cut D Flawless.

The most important numbers to consider are:
Pavilion angle.
Crown angle.
Table %.
Total depth %.

Without knowing the angles and other data on the stones, I wouldn''t consider a stone.

My picture (if you can make it out) is showing the vital stats of an exceptionally well cut variant of a GIA-Excellent stone.
34.5 crown angle, 40.8 pavilion angle, 56% table, 61.5% total depth, 55% star facet, 75% lower girdle half facet, medium girdle, 15.5% crown height, 43.0% pavilion depth.

Far too many stones (even some of the highest cut grades) have poor crown and pavilion angles that don''t reflect the light properly; the facets act like a series of mirrors. Well-aligned mirrors give the best result.

.

Next consider your colour tolerance. Some people can see colour very easily. Others don''t, or can tolerate a hint of "antique white" or "slightly-golden autumn sunshine". I have sharp eyes and can easily tell F from H but not D from F - the colour bands get smaller as the colour approaches D.
F is a very safe bet and that''s my preferred cut-off point for colourless. You could probably push to a G colour and still not notice any tint. I would not go lower than G unless in yellow gold (where the yellow drowns out any yellow tint in H-J colour stones).

Then consider the clarity.
Flawless sounds fantastic (perhaps even necessary if some websites are to be believed), but if I put a Flawless and a VS clarity round diamond in front of you, you would not be able tell the difference with your naked eyes. The price difference between FL and VS is very large and most people should seriously consider dropping to VS clarity (or even SI1 clarity) to get a bigger stone, or higher cut grade or higher colour.

.

Regarding the ring; four prong is fine for most people - especailly if platinum.

Regarding side-stones in a three-stone ring; some sellers will allow you to choose your sidestones. But you are correct; many pre-set sidestones are of H-I colour, SI clarity and "good" to "very good" but not excellent cut.

 

[FB.]

Plug your proportion numbers into these (very strict) cut quality estimators:

http://gemappraisers.com/oldcutgrade.asp

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

 

[tyty333]

Date: 11/29/2009 5:13:31 PM
Author: oneandahalfrock
You''re going to either spend a lot more or get a much smaller stone by going F and flawless; drop down to at least a G or H (still looks colorless) and Vs1 or Vs2 (still should be totally eye clean and even look pretty darn good under a 10x loupe).
Platinum is fine for a wedding set- but it depends on what she likes- from what I hear, now is a great time to buy in platinum since the price of gold is way up anyways.
I like 6 prongs myself- I feel the stone is more protected and with the number and placement of prongs, the stone more round when set.
I know this doesn''t answer everything- I''ll let the experts do that, but hope it helps a smidge

Ditto oneandahalfrock...the most important C is cut. You need to find a stone that GIA/AGS certified. Use the HCA tool to evalute stones.
Stones that score 2 and under are worth further consideration. Above 2, not worth looking at. Here is the HCA tool
https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

You will not be able to see the difference of an IF or a VS1/2. So we generally say why spend the extra money if you cant see it.
Also well cuts stone show up really white so you should be able to go down to G/H color without a problem. I can recommend a
few stones but not sure about your budget (I work in US dollars). Here are a few stones you might consider...
https://www.pricescope.com/origin.asp?id=634&sh=88&prc=6953.0000
https://www.pricescope.com/origin.asp?id=771&sh=88&prc=6510.0000
https://www.pricescope.com/origin.asp?id=1196&sh=88&prc=6040.0000

Use the cut quality search to find stones...you will find a good selection...
https://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx

 

[yssie]

Ditto, go with an AGS/GIA stone, or be prepared that the colour and clarity gradings from other labs will most likely be inflated, and an EGL/IGI F will not match an AGS/GIA F, for example.

IF clarity is obviously important to you, and it's a great choice - as long as you're going IF because it's important, and not because you're worried you'll see inclusions in anything less. Same with colour - if staying in the colourless range is important for "mind clean" great, but don't worry that a properly graded G will look tinted when set.

We can't evaluate cut quality without crown and pavilion angles. You can find a beautifully cut stone from either lab, if you evaluate by the numbers. If you buy by just the labs' gradings, though, it's true that AGS's ID parametres are stricter than GIA's Ex.