Concerns Over Whitflash ACA Certification (UK)

[craiguk]

Hi all, first post but I've been a long time reader.

I've been researching what I'm looking for for many months now and pretty much everything has come from reading PS.

I'm in the UK so currently weighing up my buying options. The 'ultimate' ring would be the Tiffany with Channel Set Band and I've seen a few alternatives. I'm currently in talks with Whiteflash over having their Bead Set adapted so that could be a contender.

Anyways, I spoke to a local bespoke jeweller here yesterday and sent him a link to a Whiteflash ACA - this one to be precise. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3400955.htm

It was more an example of the type of stone I'm looking for as he was going to price up a bespoke setting for me. His response was, in basic terms, that he's never heard of Whiteflash and that he would never encourage anyone to buy a diamond without a recognised certificate. Despite me trying to explain that it was AGS Ideal he basically stopped the conversation and suggested he's not interested. He questioned the certification process and said if it isn't GIA or HRD (and some others) then he wouldn't touch it. Also that I can do better for the money.

I'm now concerned about what he has said to me. I was going to have the setting and side stones made here in the UK but people here seem reluctant to touch anything that they think has been bought blindly from the US. Does he have some valid points or is he, as I suspect, trying to protect his income stream by rubbishing alternatives?

 

[chrono]

I have purchased from WF and have no issues doing so again. AGS is well respected here but isn't as well known in Europe, where GIA and HRD are more popular. A way to get around the setting issue is to tell the jeweller that it is a family stone. Either that, or find a new jeweller or have WF handle the ring as well (which is best because they will guarantee/insure the stone during the setting process).

 

[rubybeth]

I would just have Whiteflash make the setting you want. If it has any smaller diamonds in it, they will be the best cut and you'll get a complete ring and not have to worry about a local jeweler messing with a stone from somewhere else (complicated in terms of insurance and liability). I'm not surprised your jeweler has never heard of Whiteflash and that a jeweler in the UK hasn't heard of an American certification, but I assure you that Whiteflash is top notch (my ring is from there and I have referred several friends and family members to them, as well) and AGS is absolutely fine as a certification.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="craiguk|

It was more an example of the type of stone I'm looking for as he was going to price up a bespoke setting for me. His response was, in basic terms, that he's never heard of Whiteflash and that he would never encourage anyone to buy a diamond without a recognised certificate. Despite me trying to explain that it was AGS Ideal he basically stopped the conversation and suggested he's not interested. He questioned the certification process and said if it isn't GIA or HRD (and some others) then he wouldn't touch it. Also that I can do better for the money.

[/quote]
That's OK, I'm sure WF have never heard of them either.. GIA and AGS are the top two trusted grading labs here in the U.S.

 

[denverappraiser]

Whiteflash is a single location store half way around the world. There's a LOT of those he's never heard of. That's ok. He's right that you should use due diligence in choosing your jeweler. This applies to his store too by the way. A convenient local address is a good thing but it doesn't answer all of the questions about whether you want to do business with them. Their address isn't why most people shop with Whiteflash.

AGS is a lab that doesn't do a lot of business in the UK. The same holds true for HRD in the US. As with a store, it's good to look into any lab you're considering relying on. It's correct that there are lot of poser labs out there and if he's never heard of them, he's wise to not rely on them. The default anwer is no. On the other hand, they are in the top half dozen volume labs in the world and their reputation is sterling among people who HAVE heard of them. If he's a diamond pro who has never even heard of them, he isn't being all that attentive.

 

[Zizzy]

I'm in the UK and I'd deal with Whiteflash in a heartbeat. I can forgive him not knowing who they are, but dismissing ACA certification without bothering to do any research is poor. As a professional he should have heard of them.

 

[craiguk]

Thanks for all the replies. I've researched AGS and GIA and now understand the differences. I think when I sent him the link to the WF stone he was either lazy or just outright dismissive considering it to be another 'internet stone'.

I have a very specific idea in mind as to what I want and reading into the WF stones I know I can get exactly what I want. Whilst he may be able to source stones I'm not sure I would have the confidence to sit in a small room looking at diamonds and being able to pick. At least WF you know what you're getting.

I think the answer is to forget the UK jeweler and proceed with Whiteflash who, so far, have been incredible. I didn't really like the local guys attitude in all honesty.

 

[EvangelineG]

I think the answer is to forget the UK jeweler and proceed with Whiteflash who, so far, have been incredible. I didn't really like the local guys attitude in all honesty.

Sounds like a good choice.

My experience with the majority of local B&M jewelers is that they feel threatened by online vendors and will say anything possible to discredit them. These tactics work to scare customers into paying more for inferior goods locally, because it is the "safe" option. Obviously there are online scams and transactions can be risky if not properly vetted, but I feel far safer buying online with any of the PS vendors than I do taking my chances with the local jewelers employing outdated and disrespectful used car salesman type tactics!

 

[Christina...]

Ill just echo what the others have said and say that my experiences with WF have been too notch. I do not hesitate to recommend them to anyone. I can't wait to see your finished ring, it sounds like a beauty, and when you see your ACA for the first time, it's gonna knock your socks off!!

 

[WinkHPD]

Hi all, first post but I've been a long time reader.

I've been researching what I'm looking for for many months now and pretty much everything has come from reading PS.

I'm in the UK so currently weighing up my buying options. The 'ultimate' ring would be the Tiffany with Channel Set Band and I've seen a few alternatives. I'm currently in talks with Whiteflash over having their Bead Set adapted so that could be a contender.

Anyways, I spoke to a local bespoke jeweller here yesterday and sent him a link to a Whiteflash ACA - this one to be precise. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3400955.htm

It was more an example of the type of stone I'm looking for as he was going to price up a bespoke setting for me. His response was, in basic terms, that he's never heard of Whiteflash and that he would never encourage anyone to buy a diamond without a recognised certificate. Despite me trying to explain that it was AGS Ideal he basically stopped the conversation and suggested he's not interested. He questioned the certification process and said if it isn't GIA or HRD (and some others) then he wouldn't touch it. Also that I can do better for the money.

I'm now concerned about what he has said to me. I was going to have the setting and side stones made here in the UK but people here seem reluctant to touch anything that they think has been bought blindly from the US. Does he have some valid points or is he, as I suspect, trying to protect his income stream by rubbishing alternatives?

I am a competitor to WhiteFlash. Next month, I will see many of the people from there at the Vegas JCK show, we will sit down together, break bread, laugh, talk and enjoy each other's company, then go back to competing like heck with each other for another year.

Pretty sure your local jeweler has never heard of me either. Also pretty sure, if you told us who he was, that I have never heard of him. Don't know if he is a good guy, like the folks at WhiteFlash, or not. He is however, poorly educated for a professional. I may not generally use HRD reports, but I sure as heck know who they are. I too would recommend to you never to buy a diamond without a "recognized" diamond grading report (they are not really certificates, they are reports and he should know that too!), but AGSL is a recognized report, and he SHOULD know that.

Just my cranky opinion of a jeweler putting people down without knowing whether or not they need or deserve it. Of course, his friends are now welcome to say the same thing about me...

Wink

 

[CRYSTAL24K]

I have a BGD Blue Diamond from Brian Gavin Diamonds who branched out to start his own company after working at WF. When I went to have my diamond appraised here in the US, my jeweler had never heard of BGD and was not familiar with AGS Certification. After examining my stone he could not get stop gushing about how exceptional the cut of my diamond is. He also agreed with the grading of my stone as listed on the AGS Certificate. My stone is Ideal in Cut, Light Performance, Polish and Symmetry.

I also have a small diamond band from WF. The melee is bright and I can see the little arrows when I look through a loupe.

I am planning to order my 10th Anniversary band from WF also.

 

[denverappraiser]

I wouldn't condemn a jeweller for not trusting AGSL. Its a US facing lab that does little business elsewhere.

Not trusting AGSL is fine. They do have their issues. Not trusting GIA is even fine. Someone presenting themselves as an expert who has never even heard of them is the point of criticism. I agree that it isn't a deal killer, but it is a point of concern over the dealer's level of expertise. HRD, by the way, is also a fine lab. There are others, but I would be very curious who falls into that category of 'some others'.

 

[craiguk]

I haven't been back in touch with the jeweler. His attitude didn't really sit well with me and Whiteflash's customer service so far has been incredible. He didn't give me the impression he wanted my business and it felt almost like an inquiry when I first spoke with him.

My mind is made up and I'm going to proceed with Whiteflash so i'll be looking for some help when I come to choosing my stone. Thanks all.