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Color vs. Holloway Cut?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by JayLR, May 19, 2017 at 11:26 AM.

  1. JayLR
    Rough_Rock

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    by JayLR » May 19, 2017 at 11:26 AM
    Hello Everyone!

    I'm new here and excited to see if people with more knowledge and experience can help me out a bit with my first diamond purchase.

    I am looking for a center stone for an E. Ring and I found one 1.9 carat SI1 (eye clean) stone that is color I which scores a 2.3 on Holloway and I found another 2.04 carat VS2 that is color J, which scores .8 on Holloway. The certs for the two stones can be found here: http://www.levycreations.com/diaCertificates/2151481348.jpg and http://www.levycreations.com/diaCertificates/5236184760.jpg.

    I'm don't really care about the value or rarity of the stone, I just want the best looking/most sparkly stone to the casual/untrained viewer. So, are either of these stones good? And, is the better Holloway score more significant than the 1 color grade difference?

    I greatly appreciate any assistance!
     
  2. OoohShiny
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 19, 2017 at 11:51 AM
    As long as a stone is under 2 on the HCA score, it's considered a viable contender for further investigation. The 2.3 is probably close enough that it warrants a look as well.

    You will pay a premium for breaking the 2.0ct psychological barrier but the SI1 will need careful checking to make sure the inclusions do not impact on light performance. 'Additional Clouds not shown' on the 2.04 paperwork is a potential red flag.

    You need ASET and IdealScope images to understand light performance properly, otherwise you are buying blind.


    Colour is just that - it's personal choice what you like. It's like choosing from the million different shades of 'magnolia' in a DIY store's paint section - some like colourless stones, some like warmer/tinted stones. An I and a J will look tinted from the side to a greater or lesser degree, but they will look white from the top if they are cut well - cut is king, it is what makes a diamond do what it's supposed to do.

    For example - the glass in your windows is colourless but does it sparkle? No, it's 'cut' to be see-through. A poorly cut diamond won't internally refract/reflect light, therefore you want AGS 'triple zero' (Ideal) cut or a PriceScope-vetted GIA 'triple excellent' so that it reflects as much light as possible back to the viewer.


    Oh, and is there a reason you are looking at only these two stones? Does a jeweller have them in hand for you? (And is promising they will be 'amaaaaazing'?)

    Post your budget and preferred specs with regards to Cut/Colour/Clarity/Carat size, and I'm sure we'll find something that blows them out of the water.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 11:57 AM
    JayLR and Wholovesskunks like this.
  3. OoohShiny
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 19, 2017 at 11:59 AM
    Oh, and make sure you read all the information under the 'Knowledge' tab at the top of the forum.
     
    JayLR likes this.
  4. JayLR
    Rough_Rock

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    by JayLR » May 19, 2017 at 1:39 PM
    Thank you so much for the reply and assistance!

    As for why I'm looking at these stones and jeweler -- the jeweler, which is family run, has a good relationship with my family, has sold a lot of diamonds to my family, is very trustworthy and has a great reputation in the community (Chicago) (and they are just all around great people). Everyone one in my family and community says that this jeweler only sells "amazing/great" diamonds and they all love what they get from them. Granted, my family are not made up of diamond connoisseurs or experts (though, they have a good amount of nice looking diamonds), but neither am I or my girlfriend. So, while I trust this jeweler and would prefer to give them my business as long as the stones are fairly priced and competitive with other excellent (even if not the verrry best) diamonds, I'd like to buy from them (even though, I can probably find a better diamond (but hopefully, not wayyy better) from a super huge online retailer). I don't live in the same town as the jeweler anymore, so I'm trying to narrow down stones before I look in person, based on size/specs and the jeweler's advice.

    My stone budget is probably around $13k, but I might be willing to go to $16.5k for a bigger and nicer looking stone.

    I'm trying to get a stone around 2 carats, and once again, I'm not necessarily concerned with how the diamond looks under magnification, I just want it to be very sparkly and look good to the average person. Also, the setting that we're designing will expose the pavilion and probably even the very bottom point of the stone, so I don't know if that will increase light performance or mitigate leakage (though, I know it will make the color more noticeable).

    I don't want to get a 2 carat stone, only to have it look cheap or dull upon casual inspection by the average person.

    Sorry for so many words, but once again, and help is tremendously appreciated :)

    EDIT: As for clarity, I just care that it's eye clean and doesn't noticeably/significantly hurt the light performance/sparkle. I used to think I wanted F color, but after looking at H and F next to each other and not being able to tell the difference at all, even from the side (and both looking amazing to me), I'm willing to consider I or even J color if it will help be get a larger and better cut stone. Also, I'm only considering round cut stones.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 1:47 PM
  5. OoohShiny
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 19, 2017 at 2:57 PM
    Excellent stuff - so we're looking for a ~2ct stone that's anywhere from D to J in colour and FL to eyeclean SI2 in clarity - that's a usefully wide range that allows maximum flexibility to find something :) It's a realistic budget as well, which is always a bonus lol

    It's good that you've seen stones in person, that's a real help in determining what you're comfortable with. Many posters on the forum recommend aiming for H-J to get the most size, recognising that we won't usually wear a J and a D next to each other, so the J can stand on its own two feet in beauty terms :)


    With regards to using a family friend / jeweller... it is worth noting that a great many people have joined and posted in a similar situation, and I believe the general consensus is that perhaps only a few times have the members secured a stone that was better in quality and/or value. It is therefore likely that any replies will exhibit some scepticism towards the notion, but we appreciate that being able to see stones with your own eyes is a lot less scary than buying off some random site on the internet.

    That said, a great deal more people have bought stones that have been recommended by the 'prosumers' on here, usually off the recommended PS forum sponsors and other well regarded vendors, and have come back to say that the quality far exceeds anything they'd seen locally, so do have faith :D lol.

    Not only that, the recommended vendors have great return policies, which means that you can order, review it in your own home in a variety of lighting, and then decide to keep it or send it back (at the cost of an insured package, usually). Having done this process myself, and been worried I was going to get something that didn't knock my socks off, I couldn't be more pleased with the purchase - I think I lost hours just staring at it and playing with it before I got it set :lol: lol

    The recommended vendors include:

    Good Old Gold (GOG) - who have a range of shapes cut to the highest quality
    High Performance Diamonds (HPD) - who sell Crafted by Infinity (CBI) diamonds
    Whiteflash - who have their 'A Cut Above' top-quality line and some options below that level
    Brian Gavin Diamonds - who have 'Brian Gavin Black' and other options below it
    Blue Nile - who have their 'signature' stones IIRC
    JewelsByGrace - who deals more in old-style, secondhand stones
    IDJewelry - who are well rated as being very good value while retaining PS standards
    James Allen - who have an excellent website for comparing videos of stones

    and, er... I'm sure I've forgotten some :( Other members will correct me, I'm sure!


    Anyway, what I'm thinking is that you have a couple of options:
    - buy one of the 'branded' stones from one of the vendors above, each of whom have various 'product lines' targeting different value ranges; or
    - find a stone that is held in virtual inventory somewhere in the world (which all sellers should be able to call in) and then have your guy call it in for inspection.

    The former might cost you a few hundred in shipping costs if you send any stones back, the latter might cost you a similar amount if the jeweller wants you to pay the costs of bringing them in upfront.


    We will do our best to persuade you towards the first option, I think it's fair to say :D but please do let us know what you're thinking about the process and the stones put forward.

    I'm off to eat dinner here but if you're online, have a look round some of the vendors to see what's available, check out the search tool accessed at the top of the forum to check out a list of a large majority of the stones available worldwide at the moment (AIUI), and then I or others will start posting suggestions in due course! :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 3:10 PM
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  6. OoohShiny
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 19, 2017 at 3:09 PM
    Hopefully this link will work - this should be all the AGS000 stones with top-notch symmetry and polish (which can be changed in the Advanced filters section) coming in under about 17k:

    https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...box_panel2=&sort=&page=1&pageview=24&adv=true

    Not many, as you can see!


    Change the search to GIAXXX and you get a lot more:

    https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...box_panel2=&sort=&page=1&pageview=24&adv=true

    but that's because apparently 60% of stones graded by GIA come back as 'triple-excellent', which is pretty much indicative of the fact that their 'excellent' parameters are a lot wider than the AGS 'Ideal' parameters.... lol
     
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  7. alene
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by alene » May 19, 2017 at 3:12 PM
    The J definitely has potential. If the jeweler is local, i think this one is worth looking at in person. It's also really the best way to see if you're okay with a J.
     
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  8. JayLR
    Rough_Rock

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    by JayLR » May 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM
    Thank you so much for your input! I will check those sources out.

    Also, are you of the opinion that one or both of the stones mentioned in my original post are subpar or not worth buying if competitively priced, or do you just think I can get a bit more bang for my buck or a little bit higher in quality buying online?

    Enjoy dinner, and thanks again!
     
  9. OoohShiny
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 19, 2017 at 3:26 PM
    I think you should explore all your options :) lol, but I would agree that the J does have a lot of potential. Not many stones get an HCA under 2 (and it's likely your jeweller is not even aware of the HCA tool) so your chap has done well!


    How about this? 2.0ct, I, VS1 - looks crystal clear to me, I can't see any inclusions in it, even at 20x zoom! And it has an HCA score of under 2.

    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2850291

    It has Strong Blue fluorescence, though, so you and your other half have to be happy with that - it will make it look whiter outdoors and when UV light is present, but it will also glow bright blue in nightclubs with blacklights!

    I'm wondering if it's a little deep at 62.5 - you would need to ask James Allen for an ASET and IdealScope image. IIRC they limit you to three, so if you did want to go with them, you should identify three you're interested in.


    You could always buy an ASET or IdealScope yourself and then use them to view stones brought in locally - that would help give peace of mind if nothing else, and they're pretty cheap to buy :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 3:32 PM
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