color discrepancy help please!

[bride2006]

Hi everyone,

My fiance purchased a diamond for me last year and it came with an independent laboratory report. Recently, I had to take it to a certified appraiser for insurance purposes. This appraiser uses GIA grading. Anyhow, to make a long story short the original appraisal said it was VVS1 with a G color on a 1.16 round brilliant stone. However, when I got it appraised this highly accredited appraiser said it was in fact a VVS1 but graded it an O color. Keep in mind this loose stone was purchased in the wholesale market. I do realize that grading can be off 1 or 2 steps but 8 seems to be so far apart. I have a platinum setting. Would putting it in a setting and apprasing it that way make the appraisal that different. This is my first post so I don''t know if I should put anything else here. Also, I was thinking of having one more person appraise my ring just to see what they would say. I called the original people I bought the diamond from and they refuse to believe the diamond is an O and that the grader is just being very strict to cover themselves. I don''t know what to think.

Thanks in advance!

 

[FireGoddess]

There is SUCH a huge difference between a G stone and an O....something isn''t right! Which company is the original grading report from? There''s no way a platinum setting would affect the true grading color THAT much...I''d go for a 2nd opinion. Any of us would be able to see the difference between a G and an O!!!

It is possible that the first report isn''t worth the paper it''s printed on, but we can''t say, not knowing anything about it.

 

[decodelighted]

What''s your question? Would a stone graded loose grade 8 levels higher than one graded in a platinum setting? No.

Do you know what lab graded the stone originally? Are you happy with the stone/ring as is? Does the vendor have a trade-in or trade-up policy that would allow you to exchange that stone for a GIA or AGS graded stone?

 

[bride2006]

I am very happy with the ring/stone as is. I would of never known of the discrepancy had I not taken it in the this independent appraiser. My mom even looked at the ring herself and said she can not believe it is an O (of course keep in mind she is not a certified diamond appraiser). My mom says it would be very obvious it is an O and she thinks the appraiser must of graded it too hard. I don''t even know if the original lab report is worth the paper it''s written on though it appears to be real but I can''t seem to find any info on it when I google it. Are small independent labs common? Is it possible the wholesale dealer graded it too high and the CGA appraised it to low? Is this common.... I called the original place of purchase and they are saying I can''t compare an independent lab report to a GIA report because it''s an entire different market and a GIA diamond is going to cost twice as much. Am I making sense? Overall, when I punched in the new grading values we still got a good deal just not the greatest deal we thought we originally had. Thanks in advance again...

 

[DiamondExpert]

I think it''s more correct to say that the stone''s color did not grade G, but was represented (misrepresented?) as being G. That''s how a lot of folks can get diamonds very cheap at "wholesale"...caveat emptor!

Get it graded properly, and make your payment based on the results from a strict lab...GIA/AGS/PGS.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

can we see a picture?

 

[valeria101]

If the second appraisal is ok, that diamond should be about the color of ... lemon zest. G should look no-excuse colorless. With the stone set, it is easiest to look for color placing the ring against white paper. C'mon... it doesn't take any GIA paper to tell O-P from G.

Grading in setting is not precise, but not this imprecise either.


Prices would be very different - hopefully you didn't pay for G/VVS, even if you have not got the 'bargain' advertised. This sort of thing is really common

My 2c

 

[Richard Sherwood]

What''s the name of the appraiser who graded it an "O"?

CGA''s (an AGS Certified Gemologist Appraiser) tend to be well trained.

Are you saying the diamond was originally "certed" by the GIA (Gemological Institute of America)?

 

[valeria101]

Btw, Richard...

how does one grade ''O'' w/o reference in the color grading set, GIA giving ''O-P'' & all

 

[Gonzodogg]

I am very far from an expert but it sounds to me like the only way there could be THAT MUCH difference is if they are both wrong and the real color is somewhere in the middle. I would guess that this latest appraisal isa little bit closer to the truth but I find it very hard to believe that you have been wearing an O thinking it was a G - they look completely different!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 3/3/2006 11:12:45 PM
Author: valeria101

Btw, Richard...

how does one grade ''O'' w/o reference in the color grading set, GIA giving ''O-P'' all

It''s an extrapolated judgement call.

That''s one thing I really like about the SAS-2000. It really helps differentiate between the "cape" grades.

It''s interesting how the pricing takes place in these "cape" (yellow) stones as well. With no Rapaport price grids past "M" color, the cape stones take on a life of their own. A lot of it depends on their modifying hues, and faceup appearance. Very subjective, much like the wide ranging fancy color grades.

 

[bride2006]

**Sorry for all the revisions - I had typos/grammatical errors and it's just a pet peeve of mine to fix it**

Hi everyone..

Thanks for all the information and for bearing with me (I don't know much about diamonds except what I have recently read on the web). I wanted to make a correction and apologize for the confusion. I wanted to answer a question above. It was not originally GIA appraised. The loose stone was originally appraised from an independent diamond trade laboratory. It was recently appraised by a Master Gemologist Appraiser using a Master stone diamond grading set certified by GIA. Therefore it was not GIA certified but it was appraised using a grading set certified by GIA. I am thinking maybe the price was too good to be true in the first place and that since it was a VVS1 clarity and I didn't know anything about diamond colors until now, I couldn't tell. Most people who look at my ring always think its bigger than it is. I guess my concern now is if I get it insured as a VVS1/O color ring but really it's somewhere in between a G and O. If it were to ever get lost (**crossing fingers this would never happen**) that I would not get an equivalent ring back. But of course I also would not want to insure it for more than its real value.

Here is the report....

DIAMOND REPORT
Shape & cut: Modern Round brilliant
Weight: 1.16 Ct (reported & calculated)
Color: O
Clarity: VVS-1
Measurements: 6.98 x 6.93 x 4.10mm, (approximate)
Proportions Table %: 63.3 - 4.40mm Depth %: 58.95 - 4.10mm Crown Height%: 11.49 - 0.80mm Crown angle: 34o Pavilion depth %: 44.7 - 3.10mm
Girdle: Slightly Thin (faceted) 1.4%% (average) Inscribed: Yes
Culet: None Brilliance: Very Good Cut Grade: Very Good - Class II-A
Finish Polish: Very Good Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: (LW) Moderate blue
Legend: Extra Facet


What does this mean? Fluorescence: (LW) Moderate blue ? Is this good or bad?

I keep looking at my ring and according to the color scale I can't believe it would be an O myself but what would I know, I must be crazy to doubt such an accredited appraiser would be too strict on my ring. Even my mom refuses to believe its an O. Now, I know how to look for it againt a white piece of paper there is a very faint tint of light yellow though (In my eyes it looks like it would be a I possibly a J on the color chart). I guess the best thing I can do is fork out the $ again and pay another independent appraiser to look at my diamond ring. Sorry for rambling on... first time getting married, therefore first engagement ring owned.

 

[denverappraiser]

Ring up the appraiser and discuss the matter with them. Make sure you don't simply have an error. G and O are pretty different and this difference is pretty important. Master Gemologist Apperaiser is an ASA credential and they too are usually pretty well trained but it's always possible that they screwed up. If they stand by that grading, go back to the jewelry store where you bought it with the appraisers report in hand and complain to the management. The fact that the store describes themselves as a 'wholesaler' is completely irrelevant.

A few questions:
Did your appraiser get the opportunity to examine the stone unmounted?
Who issued the original grade that called it a G?
Was this deal done in the US? What state?
Does the jewelers receipt (not just the lab report) say on it that you bought a G?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If it''s not a typo, I would tend to think the MGA''s call is closer, if not dead-on.

It''s interesting the girdle is inscribed. I wonder who inscribed it, and what it says?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 3/4/2006 4:36:45 AM
Author: bride2006
I guess the best thing I can do is fork out the $ again and pay another independent appraiser to look at my diamond ring.

If you'd like to have a third opinion (on the color) from a machine which is considered impartial and accurate, I'm curious enough to run it through the SAS-2000 spectrophotometer at no charge (except for return shipping, $38 Fedex overnite & $3 per thousand insurance).

 

[ladykemma]

can you post a picture?

 

[AndyRosse]

Date: 3/4/2006 10:50:49 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 3/4/2006 4:36:45 AM
Author: bride2006
I guess the best thing I can do is fork out the $ again and pay another independent appraiser to look at my diamond ring.

If you''d like to have a third opinion (on the color) from a machine which is considered impartial and accurate, I''m curious enough to run it through the SAS-2000 spectrophotometer at no charge (except for return shipping, $38 Fedex overnite & $3 per thousand insurance).

Bride2006, I would definitely consider taking Richard up on his offer! That is very generous of him

 

[AndyRosse]

Date: 3/4/2006 11:50:53 AM
Author: ladykemma
can you post a picture?

Oooh, and I love to see a pic too

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/4/2006 1:46:51 PM
Author: Rascal49

Date: 3/4/2006 10:50:49 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 3/4/2006 4:36:45 AM
Author: bride2006
I guess the best thing I can do is fork out the $ again and pay another independent appraiser to look at my diamond ring.

If you''d like to have a third opinion (on the color) from a machine which is considered impartial and accurate, I''m curious enough to run it through the SAS-2000 spectrophotometer at no charge (except for return shipping, $38 Fedex overnite & $3 per thousand insurance).

Bride2006, I would definitely consider taking Richard up on his offer! That is very generous of him

I agree...I''d send it to Richard and have him run it!

Sounds to me like the original appraisal was bogus at calling it a G and this more recent MGA one is accurate or very close to being accurate. However, seems like you would see a visual difference if it was really O. We had some N earrings for a while thinking they were H''s and once I found out they were N''s it all kind of made sense, but they were by no means YELLOW, just warm. But everyone''s eyes are different...good luck!!

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 3/4/2006 8:51:59 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Ring up the appraiser and discuss the matter with them. Make sure you don''t simply have an error. G and O are pretty different and this difference is pretty important. Master Gemologist Apperaiser is an ASA credential and they too are usually pretty well trained but it''s always possible that they screwed up. If they stand by that grading, go back to the jewelry store where you bought it with the appraisers report in hand and complain to the management. The fact that the store describes themselves as a ''wholesaler'' is completely irrelevant.

A few questions:
Did your appraiser get the opportunity to examine the stone unmounted?
Who issued the original grade that called it a G?
Was this deal done in the US? What state?
Does the jewelers receipt (not just the lab report) say on it that you bought a G?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Neil poses some important questions. This is an unusual circumstance and a "whose right vs. whose wrong" scenario. Personally, I really can''t imagine an "O" being mistaken for a "G" and vice versa. I would call the appraiser and ask him/her to take a second look. The M.G.A. is acting independently when appraising your diamond, so I can''t imagine why the color would be sooooo off from your original "G." Of course, this could be a typo. In any event, give the appraiser a call. We''ll all feel better knowing how this turns out.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[bride2006]

Hi again,

Thanks to everyone for all the information. This board is definitely very helpful and I am so glad to have found it (I just wish I had found it before my fiance purchased my diamond). Anyhow, I did not even have to call the appraiser. The appraiser just called me and wanted to make sure I was happy with the appraisal and recommended I send it in to GIA to know for sure and do the grading as a loose stone. I was quite happy of this and this showed the professionalism and care they put into their work. The appraiser is confident in the color grading of my diamond and after doing more research on the original wholesaler who sold my fiance the diamond and looking over the receipt and original lab report I also have confidence in the 2nd appraisal as well. Unfortunately, it seems the first appraisal is not worth the paper it is written on. I am bummed out that my stone is not what I originally assumed it to be (the two should not be confused). Also, I just wanted to clear up the fact that I was in fact happy with the appraisal but was unhappy to learn of the color news. I guess part of me was hoping my ring was not actually an O and I was just being a flustered bride to even doubt the 2nd appraisal in the first place. I apologize for any misinterpretations of MGA''s on my part and wanted to clear up the fact that the appraisal was very thorough, etc and anyone who uses an accredited Master Gemologist Appraiser should have confidence in their work. Once I get things cleared up with the original place of purchase I will post where or what lab it was from so no one has to go through this unfortunate scenario.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Bride2006,

I'm pleased that your appraiser did a thorough job and was kind enough to follow up and offer more advice. Most all
appraisers are on the side of the consumer and we really dislike misrepresentation and when diamonds are poorly graded.
But rest assured that most of us are constantly checking, reviewing, verifying and keeping everyone on the "up and up."
Best wishes and good luck on your upcoming wedding!

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[bride2006]

THANK YOU!!!