Clouds only shown under halogens

[ShariMichele]

Is it possible for clouds to be so visible under halogen lighting that the stone looks like a cloudy dull I3, but totally undetected under flourescent or natural light? This SI 1 stone rates an excellent for cut and clarity according to GIA, 1.4 HCA. Thanks!

 

[stone-cold11]

Possible. Most near tolk cut proportion look darker under spot lighting anyway.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/18/2009 1:45:18 AM
Author:ShariMichele
Is it possible for clouds to be so visible under halogen lighting that the stone looks like a cloudy dull I3, but totally undetected under flourescent or natural light? This SI 1 stone rates an excellent for cut and clarity according to GIA, 1.4 HCA. Thanks!

I would think it is possible, have you bought this diamond yet?

 

[ShariMichele]

Unfortunately yes, hence why I am up at 4am. Does the definition of SI 1 having flaws undetectable to the naked eye mean "undetectable in all lighting"?

 

[FB.]

I think that the darkness is mostly because that''s what diamonds often do in bright spotlights; they turn much darker, but with more flashes of coloured light.
That dark appearance is especially true of stones with more "fiery" proportions; small tables, large crowns, shallow pavilions.

Although the clouds might be causing a problem, it would be quite rare in a properly graded SI1.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Clouds generally make a colorless diamond appear matt white - just like a burmese ruby (red on red) or a Kashmir sapphire (blue on blue) appears the mass basic body color because the stone has silky cloudy inclsions.
Clouds will usually still look whitish cloudy in strong concentrated lights like halogens.

 

[Laila619]

Shari, I''m so sorry to hear about your cloudy stone.

Is the vendor willing to take it back?

 

[ShariMichele]

No, the vendor is now out of business. Gary, could a matte white appearance under halogens still get a triple ex SI 1 grading from GIA? I didn''t notice this at all when I purchased the stone, but since a new jeweler has tried to set it into platinum, it''s quite noticable.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have seen a GIA SI1 that was so cloudy I would have considered it unsuitable for sale.
It had maybe 1/2 the sparkle you would expect.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This video shows the normal darkness that happens under halogens for ideal diamonds that people are talking about. I believe it is the second lighting environment they show.

http://www.vimeo.com/8204154

 

[ShariMichele]

Dreamer, do you mind posting that video again...the link is not working. Sorry I didn''t see this sooner if I''ve waited too long to view. Thanks!

 

[oldminer]

If you arew already wearing the diamond, it could just be a soapy film on the back of the diamond. Diamonds collect this kind of cloudy junk on their pavilions. It could be something very simple to remove if it is not really a visible cloud. I doubt you''d see such a cloud in an SI1 undert most circumstances.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 12/23/2009 12:36:52 PM
Author: oldminer
If you arew already wearing the diamond, it could just be a soapy film on the back of the diamond. Diamonds collect this kind of cloudy junk on their pavilions. It could be something very simple to remove if it is not really a visible cloud. I doubt you''d see such a cloud in an SI1 undert most circumstances.

David, OP is referring to this.

From this thread.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-my-diamond-looks-different-after-being-set.131974/page-2

 

[ShariMichele]

Yes, only my keen eye can find the worst looking cloud possible for an SI 1,(so bad a couple professional apprasiers say there''s no way it could be SI1) and then not wear it for a year, only to discover it just as the company I bought it from is going out of business. I think it''s my punishment for loosing my 100 year old family heriloom wedding ring.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 12/23/2009 11:43:00 AM
Author: ShariMichele
Dreamer, do you mind posting that video again...the link is not working. Sorry I didn''t see this sooner if I''ve waited too long to view. Thanks!

Hmmm. I didn''t know they disappear like that. Maybe it was taken down for a reason.

Here is another one. Look at it under spot lighting which is the second of third lighting environment.

http://www.vimeo.com/7943811

 

[ShariMichele]

Thanks for reposting. I am still having trouble with the video being jumpy, but will try again later.

Just for curiosity sake, here is a pic of my ring in daylight. Now that I know the cloud is there, I notice it more, (especially when seated next to two non cloudy stones) but it doesn't look nearly as bad as under halogen.

 

[ShariMichele]

And another:

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/24/2009 1:04:54 AM
Author: ShariMichele
Thanks for reposting. I am still having trouble with the video being jumpy, but will try again later.

Just for curiosity sake, here is a pic of my ring in daylight. Now that I know the cloud is there, I notice it more, (especially when seated next to two non cloudy stones) but it doesn''t look nearly as bad as under halogen.

I am afraid that what I see in that photo is what I feared.
GIA actually consder a diamond like that to be SI1. the one I saw 9 months ago was far worse, and the Lab Director looked it up and told me it was a SI1 SI2 border call (given SI1).

Stones like this can be cloudy from fluoro, but coludy inclusions seem to be the worst type.
I would
1. seek a replacement if possible?
2. find a good independant appraiser to advise you.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Shari I am so sorry that your diamond turned out to be such a dissappointment. I am very thankful that you shared the experience with us though. I never would have thought that an SI1 GIA graded Excellent cut could face up like this. Thanks again for sharing.

Lisa

 

[ShariMichele]

I honestly still can't believe I didn't notice the cloud at all while I was inspecting it...I know I looked at it under bright lighting and the white seems so obvious to me now. I guess I was only looking for obvious inclusions such as cracks and crystals and trusted the color and cut to the GIA cert and the excellent HCA score. A couple more questions for anyone still left listening:

Is there something a jeweler could do to make such a cloud look better (before I purchased), or worse (maybe accidentally by the jeweler setting the stone)? I know it was impeccably clean, which I'm sure helped it's appearance and sparkle when I bought it.

Also, I don't suppose there is, but is there any way I'd have recourse against GIA for grading it an SI1? I feel so blind for buying it, but I also feel so mislead by GIA and my jeweler.

Thank you all and Merry Christmas!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/24/2009 4:43:02 PM
Author: ShariMichele
I honestly still can''t believe I didn''t notice the cloud at all while I was inspecting it...I know I looked at it under bright lighting and the white seems so obvious to me now. I guess I was only looking for obvious inclusions such as cracks and crystals and trusted the color and cut to the GIA cert and the excellent HCA score. A couple more questions for anyone still left listening:

Is there something a jeweler could do to make such a cloud look better (before I purchased), or worse (maybe accidentally by the jeweler setting the stone)? I know it was impeccably clean, which I''m sure helped it''s appearance and sparkle when I bought it.

Also, I don''t suppose there is, but is there any way I''d have recourse against GIA for grading it an SI1? I feel so blind for buying it, but I also feel so mislead by GIA and my jeweler.

Thank you all and Merry Christmas!

It is possible to burn the diamond during repitting or soldering and heating the stone absent Borax or some other coating anti oxidizing cover. I strongly recomend you see an appraiser.

GIA''s policy is their policy - but tell us what it says on the inclusion comments and better still post the report - that will help a lot.

 

[FB.]

Garry, I thought that the diamond was independently appraised a few days ago?
Maybe someone will correct me, if I''m wrong.
Therefore, if it''s been through an appraiser, it would appear that the stone is the correct one, with the correct grade (subject to individual interpretation and borderline calls), without obvious signs of damage.

 

[ShariMichele]

I did see an appraiser recommended by PS on Monday and he thought it was a beautiful stone. He didn''t even notice the cloud (and associated cloudiness) until I pointed it out to him! Think I should see another appraiser?

The cert says under comments "clarity grade based on clouds not shown". I can''t post the cert right now, but I can give you the number if that would help. I know it says it''s a clarity based cloud, but doesn''t that still mean is should be unnoticable to the naked eye to get SI1?

 

[FB.]

Here''s a quote from another thread:

"......So the results are in, and it was in fact the stone I purchased. Ugh! The good news is I don''t have to wonder who stole my diamond, the bad news is it looks terrible with my two other stones. I did not have my side stones at the time, and only looked at the center stone alone, so did not notice how milky it was under certain lighting. I still wonder if the jeweler did anything to make it look better when I bought it, but it''s mainly yellow type light that bring out the cloud, and the jewelry store was extremely well lit with natural light from the windows.

The thing that made me feel better at the appraisal was that he said it was a very nice stone, Ideal/AGS0 cut, high H color etc, and I paid about $2000 less than that average retail for such a stone. He also thought I''d have no problem selling it for somewhere around what I paid for it, so I plan to do that in a few months and get a better looking stone to match my two sides. In the meantime, I plan to wear it and finally have a ring again after 1.5 years. Thanks to all for your input and support. ......."

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

SM see my comments about a really bad stone worse than yours graded GIA SI1

Also see the tutorial here about clarity and links to topics on eye visibility.

I suspect your stone report has little or no marked or other inclusions = the cloud is the major grade maker.
Get rid of it if you can.

I don''t think you should name the appraiser - but i would suggest some of those who post here a lot.
You may need to ship it.

 

[Lynn B]

I don''t have much of substance to add here except that I am sorry this stone has disappointed you so.

I would be bummed, too.

Since you didn''t notice it at first, maybe it''s not really *that* noticeable to the casual observer? Perhaps the fact that it''s in between two clearer stones is making it even more obvious. What do you think about resetting it into a pendant or some other piece of jewelry where it is set by itself, and not "competing" with other stones?

Please keep us posted.