Cleaning of Diamonds: Frequency in the Context of Cut Quality

[headlight]

Hi, Everyone!
I would appreciate some feedback regarding the issue of cleaning your diamond and how it possibly relates to cut.
I understand that diamonds are grease "magnets" (so much so that a grease belt is used to separate rough from other minerals in the diamond mining process).
There are many, many posts here about recommended methods for cleaning diamonds.
There are often posts by diamond owners expressing their disappointment at how their diamond appears/doesn't seem like it was when they first got it, etc., and then once they get feedback here about cleaning it and various methods to use, they report back that it must've just been dirty because after following the advice of PS posters, they have once again fallen in love with their diamond.
Many people here report that they clean their diamonds daily (like before going to bed, etc.).
YET, I then have read on some places on the internet that if you have a really well-cut diamond, it should still perform even if dirty. I have even read something about a "vaseline test" where if you have a really well-cut diamond even if it has vaseline placed on the pavilion, it should still perform.
I have read on GIA the whole thing about diamonds' propensity to attract grease and that grease has a higher RI than air so it will change the critical angle causing light leakage. So this sounds scientifically legit. However, then I question this whole concept after I read these claims about how if you have a well-cut stone it should sparkle no matter how dirty. Also, based on the issues with GIA 3X not usually being the best cut diamonds, the whole explanation I just referenced from GIA would seem to be a way to "defend" in a sense the GIA 3X stones that are so often rejected here (as in it's not that they are poorly cut, it's all due to the grease issue!).
I know that for my diamond, if it isn't super clean its appearance is impaired (totally bums me out!)... But I am also one of those "unsuspecting" people who thought GIA3X meant I was getting a high quality diamond
So maybe the fact that it is probably amongst the majority of GIA 3X that are sub-par, explains the reason why it just doesn't look/perform its best?... or are these claims that if it is well-cut it doesn't matter how dirty it gets??? I guess my point is I am not sure if my expectations are too high/unrealistic?
Don't worry about hurting my feelings!
(Also want to mention that my mounting is a traditional 6 prong type without an open bottom under the culet and there is not a lot of space between the culet and the bottom of the mounting... it was set quite low, if that makes a difference with regard to the "dirt collecting" issue.)
Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Wewechew]

My CBI doesn't look great after I sleep in bed all night with it on. It still reflects light, but not like it does when it's clean.

How was your diamonds HCA and light images?

 

[Starfacet]

"YET, I then have read on some places on the internet that if you have a really well-cut diamond, it should still perform even if dirty."
TRUE. All my "ideal cut" diamonds still perform well even when dirty.

"I know that for my diamond, if it isn't super clean its appearance is impaired (totally bums me out!)... But I am also one of those "unsuspecting" people who thought GIA3X meant I was getting a high quality diamond "
I'm sorry this happened to you!

"So maybe the fact that it is probably amongst the majority of GIA 3X that are sub-par, explains the reason why it just doesn't look/perform its best?"
Yes.

You said not to worry about hurting your feelings, so I'm just going to put this out there. I think that while you love your current diamond, your want a better cut. A lot of us have bought diamonds that ultimately disappointed us for whatever reason. The question is, what are you going to do?
You could:
1) have your stone recut to improve cut quality (Ashley at Southwest Diamond Cutters can advise you on that).
2) trade up with HPD to get in the CBI loop, then trade up incrementally until your reach your desired size.
3) love your current diamond and stop worrying about the cert and clean it often.

 

[Bron357]

Diamond performance ie sparkle can be relative, if you’ve never seen a well cut diamond, how would you know yours isn’t sparkling as much?
One comment I’m familiar with is “it doesn’t look as sparkly as it did in the shop”.
This is true. Consumers don’t realize that stores spend literally thousands of dollars on specialized lighting to ensure their wastes are displaying at their very best. Unfortunately office lighting, home lighting and even natural light can’t compete. Unfortunately no amount of “cleaning” turns a diamonds sparkle back into the sparkle it had in the jewellers showroom but certainly oils, dust, fingerprints affect the sparkle just as a dirty glass window reduces visibility.

 

[distracts]

My SIL has a GOG ideal cut. It still looks good when it's dirty. White, brilliant, still better than other diamonds in the room. BUT when it is clean it is a real firecracker. It's not a dud when it's dirty, but it's a standout when it's clean. If that makes sense. ime dirt seems to impair fire more than it does brilliance.

I think claims that it doesn't matter how dirty a diamond gets if it well-cut it will still sparkle are BS. Especially if the dirt/grease is on top of the diamond... some times I have taken and cleaned my SIL's diamond and it was like I had to take off a layer of gray muck before the diamond was revealed... anyone who thinks something could sparkle through caked-on lotion with grime embedded in it is smoking something reaaaallly powerful.

 

[Starfacet]

My SIL has a GOG ideal cut. It still looks good when it's dirty. White, brilliant, still better than other diamonds in the room. BUT when it is clean it is a real firecracker. It's not a dud when it's dirty, but it's a standout when it's clean. If that makes sense. ime dirt seems to impair fire more than it does brilliance.

I think claims that it doesn't matter how dirty a diamond gets if it well-cut it will still sparkle are BS. Especially if the dirt/grease is on top of the diamond... some times I have taken and cleaned my SIL's diamond and it was like I had to take off a layer of gray muck before the diamond was revealed... anyone who thinks something could sparkle through caked-on lotion with grime embedded in it is smoking something reaaaallly powerful.

LOL, I guess mine don't get that dirty!! But then, I am enamored with the power of Mr. Clean non-ammonia and some warm water on my diamonds.

 

[headlight]

My CBI doesn't look great after I sleep in bed all night with it on. It still reflects light, but not like it does when it's clean.

How was your diamonds HCA and light images?

HCA was 1.6... got Excellent for Light Return, Fire, & Scintillation. Only got Good for Spread as it is cut deeper than what would be optimal (yet still squeaked by to achieve GIA Ex).
I honestly do not remember what the images looked like. I don't have photos. The jeweler had the viewers but I think I was so overwhelmed with the process I guess it just was lost on me (sadly).

 

[headlight]

"YET, I then have read on some places on the internet that if you have a really well-cut diamond, it should still perform even if dirty."
TRUE. All my "ideal cut" diamonds still perform well even when dirty.

"I know that for my diamond, if it isn't super clean its appearance is impaired (totally bums me out!)... But I am also one of those "unsuspecting" people who thought GIA3X meant I was getting a high quality diamond "
I'm sorry this happened to you!

"So maybe the fact that it is probably amongst the majority of GIA 3X that are sub-par, explains the reason why it just doesn't look/perform its best?"
Yes.

You said not to worry about hurting your feelings, so I'm just going to put this out there. I think that while you love your current diamond, your want a better cut. A lot of us have bought diamonds that ultimately disappointed us for whatever reason. The question is, what are you going to do?
You could:
1) have your stone recut to improve cut quality (Ashley at Southwest Diamond Cutters can advise you on that).
2) trade up with HPD to get in the CBI loop, then trade up incrementally until your reach your desired size.
3) love your current diamond and stop worrying about the cert and clean it often.

You have not hurt my feelings - I respect your honestly, your info, and your suggestions

 

[Starfacet]

You have not hurt my feelings - I respect your honestly, your info, and your suggestions

We are here for you!

 

[headlight]

Diamond performance ie sparkle can be relative, if you’ve never seen a well cut diamond, how would you know yours isn’t sparkling as much?
One comment I’m familiar with is “it doesn’t look as sparkly as it did in the shop”.
This is true. Consumers don’t realize that stores spend literally thousands of dollars on specialized lighting to ensure their wastes are displaying at their very best. Unfortunately office lighting, home lighting and even natural light can’t compete. Unfortunately no amount of “cleaning” turns a diamonds sparkle back into the sparkle it had in the jewellers showroom but certainly oils, dust, fingerprints affect the sparkle just as a dirty glass window reduces visibility.

There are a number of lighting situations where it is beyond what I hoped for (as in a positive context). But there are also a couple environments where it bums me out. I will need to make a point of noticing what the difference is in the lighting that is usually favorable for my stone when it is dirty.
This is good info - thank you!

 

[distracts]

LOL, I guess mine don't get that dirty!! But then, I am enamored with the power of Mr. Clean non-ammonia and some warm water on my diamonds.

Haha, yes, it only gets cleaned when she comes over to my house! My friends/family seem to think I run a jewelry-cleaning outfit because they will always hand me their rings and ask me to clean them.

 

[headlight]

We are here for you!

THANK YOU!

 

[headlight]

LOL, I guess mine don't get that dirty!! But then, I am enamored with the power of Mr. Clean non-ammonia and some warm water on my diamonds.

Note to Self: Make date with Mr. Clean LOL!!!

 

[Wewechew]

HCA was 1.6... got Excellent for Light Return, Fire, & Scintillation. Only got Good for Spread as it is cut deeper than what would be optimal (yet still squeaked by to achieve GIA Ex).
I honestly do not remember what the images looked like. I don't have photos. The jeweler had the viewers but I think I was so overwhelmed with the process I guess it just was lost on me (sadly).

I had a GIA XXX that scored well on HCA; in a past life it supposedly had been a Tiffany diamond (I purchased it second hand from someone who had unset it). It was a beautiful diamond, but it was always in the back of my mind that it wasn’t super ideal. It wasn’t until I got a super ideal that I realized the GIA diamond was still top tier. Was it cut as precise as my ACAs and CBI? No, the arrows weren’t as crisp. But it was a BEAUTIFUL DIAMOND. I took it to a local jeweler to have it set and they even commented how beautiful it was.

That said- do I prefer my super ideals? Yes, but it may be a “mind clean” issue for me too. I also don’t think I appreciated my GIA XXX until I was able to compare it to a super ideal, if that makes sense? Diamonds get dirty. All diamonds, no matter how well cut. Like @distracts said- super ideals, unfortunately, do not defy the laws of physics.

My best advice to you would be to compare your diamond against a super ideal in person. I think that will be the only way you will be able to put your mind at ease. Or maybe you will see that your diamond *is* lacking. Who knows. But you are driving yourself crazy wondering.

 

[headlight]

I had a GIA XXX that scored well on HCA; in a past life it supposedly had been a Tiffany diamond (I purchased it second hand from someone who had unset it). It was a beautiful diamond, but it was always in the back of my mind that it wasn’t super ideal. It wasn’t until I got a super ideal that I realized the GIA diamond was still top tier. Was it cut as precise as my ACAs and CBI? No, the arrows weren’t as crisp. But it was a BEAUTIFUL DIAMOND. I took it to a local jeweler to have it set and they even commented how beautiful it was.

That said- do I prefer my super ideals? Yes, but it may be a “mind clean” issue for me too. I also don’t think I appreciated my GIA XXX until I was able to compare it to a super ideal, if that makes sense? Diamonds get dirty. All diamonds, no matter how well cut. Like @distracts said- super ideals, unfortunately, do not defy the laws of physics.

My best advice to you would be to compare your diamond against a super ideal in person. I think that will be the only way you will be able to put your mind at ease. Or maybe you will see that your diamond *is* lacking. Who knows. But you are driving yourself crazy wondering.

This is so helpful! Yes, driving myself crazy, my husband crazy, my PS community crazy...!

 

[Wewechew]

This is so helpful! Yes, driving myself crazy, my husband crazy, my PS community crazy...!

Most of us do this. Just look at my thread about E vs G

 

[headlight]

Most of us do this. Just look at my thread about E vs G

Gotcha

 

[Starfacet]

This is so helpful! Yes, driving myself crazy, my husband crazy, my PS community crazy...!

Good news is, you have options!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Note to Self: Make date with Mr. Clean LOL!!!

Must buy yourself a cleaning toy...



For a quick and fast cleaning..

 

[headlight]

LOVE THIS!!!

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think this is a topic where it first might help to step outside ourselves from the perspective of ‘being PSers’ who tend to be a bit. more discerning about our diamonds than most consumers. (And I don’t mean that to sound as snobby as it probably reads). I just know - long before PS - I probably didn’t clean my jewelry hardly ever (translation: never). It just wasn’t something I thought or spent time worrying about; it wasn’t a priority or a passion, the latter of which I think is what brought/keeps many of us now frequenting this community. Consequently, now it is a priority for me to keep my diamond ‘truly’ clean because now I appreciate my pieces; I notice when my diamond is ‘dirty’, which ‘average consumers’ probably think is beyond OCD. But I see and appreciate the cut on my diamonds, what they are ‘made’ to do, how they are supposed to look, etc. and understand that in order to maximize that beauty, regular cleaning must be a priority. People who aren’t as passionate about diamonds probably think we’re nuts getting the ‘cleaning twitch’ when there is a finger print on the table of a diamond.

So when you read and think about some of the articles out there about diamonds, oil, etc., I think they are helpful, but perhaps intended more for as general information or education because they only cover a fraction of the equation. IMO, a ‘clean’ diamond is only part of being a good diamond owner; but it takes more than just regular cleaning for a diamond to look great. Cut is equally if not more critical to that equation, and I imagine a few of those articles leave out that fact. Let’s face it, if you put an ACA, CBI, BGD diamond beside 95% of what is ‘out there’ - and both are properly cleaned via the same means - I’m pretty sure those with the outstanding cut are going to knock the socks off the competition.

 

[Johnbt]

I think I should clean my wife's ring today. We've been at the beach since Saturday and the sunscreen, hand lotion, body lotion and fresh seafood have taken a toll on the shine. Or maybe it was the fried seafood or even the wonderful garden pizza last night with an appetizer of shrimp & artichoke cheese dip.

Don't get me wrong, it still sparkles but I think it's beginning to look like a ring from the mall and not like what it is - a 1.5 carat ACA. And now it's starting to look like an H or an I or maybe an ungraded greasy rock instead of an F.

I thought I'd wait until we got home to run the cheap ultrasonic, but I think I'd better hit it with the toothbrush and Dawn immediately.

Hmmm, I wonder if the one tackle shop on the island has an ultrasonic for cleaning fishing reels.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Hmmm, I wonder if the one tackle shop on the island has an ultrasonic for cleaning fishing reels.

I’ve discovered you can kinda ‘fake’ an ultrasonic if you have an electric toothbrush by just holding the head of the brush (while it’s ‘on’) in the bowl with the water/dawn.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to dash off to my ‘Jewelry Cleaners Anonymous’ meeting.

 

[motownmama]

I’m running upstairs to use my ultrasonic!!

 

[Jsand]

Would be interesting to see some before and after cleaning pics. I wonder if cameras can pick up a difference though.

 

[headlight]

I think I should clean my wife's ring today. We've been at the beach since Saturday and the sunscreen, hand lotion, body lotion and fresh seafood have taken a toll on the shine. Or maybe it was the fried seafood or even the wonderful garden pizza last night with an appetizer of shrimp & artichoke cheese dip.

Don't get me wrong, it still sparkles but I think it's beginning to look like a ring from the mall and not like what it is - a 1.5 carat ACA. And now it's starting to look like an H or an I or maybe an ungraded greasy rock instead of an F.

I thought I'd wait until we got home to run the cheap ultrasonic, but I think I'd better hit it with the toothbrush and Dawn immediately.

Hmmm, I wonder if the one tackle shop on the island has an ultrasonic for cleaning fishing reels.

Surely there's the distinction between super ideal and average 3X... there's no way my diamond could endure all that and still look decent!!!

It would never occur to my husband to clean my ring, whether it needed cleaning, or anything along those lines!

Sounds like you've had a great vacation!

 

[WinkHPD]

I have even read something about a "vaseline test" where if you have a really well-cut diamond even if it has vaseline placed on the pavilion, it should still perform.

When I was a young boy, my friends used to tell me that if you found a diamond and hit it with a hammer, it would remain undamaged.

Thank goodness I found out differently before I found a diamond and destroyed it trying to prove it was a diamond.

I do not know who wrote something about the "vaseline test" and put it up on the net for you to read, but I do know that it ranks right up there with the bad advice about hitting a diamond with a hammer to prove it is a diamond.

The refractive index of a substance is described as the speed of light in a vacuum divided by the speed of light in the medium being measured. Knowing the RI of diamond is 2.417 allows cutters to cut diamonds within a range of angles that result in the sparkle and dispersion that we like. Knowing how the light enters and leaves a clean diamond, also allows really great cutters to cut the diamonds to incredible precision to create the larger internal mirrors that create larger flashes of white and colored light. Throw in a layer of finger gookie, skin cream, soap scum and all of the math that it took to create perfection is tossed out the window.

Why? Because the refractive index between the speed of light in a diamond, and the speed of light in a layer of finger gookie, skin cream, soap scum is different than it is between a diamond and air. Light enters and leaves the diamond at different angles than it does when the diamond is clean, and no cutter can plan for and cut for those angles.

Granted, a dirty "really well cut" diamond might look somewhat better than a "really poor cut" diamond that did not look all that good to begin with, but both will be so far from what they should be that it will hardly matter...

Wink, who is going to have nightmares from reading about the Vaseline test.

 

[Dancing Fire]

When I was a young boy, my friends used to tell me that if you found a diamond and hit it with a hammer, it would remain undamaged.

I did the hammer test on my CBI. the stone remains undamaged so it must be a real diamond?

 

[sledge]

Granted, a dirty "really well cut" diamond might look somewhat better than a "really poor cut" diamond that did not look all that good to begin with, but both will be so far from what they should be that it will hardly matter...

Exactly. Short version -- keep your diamonds squeaky clean.

By the way @Wink, when is CBI introducing the super duper deluxe ideal cut model stones with auto cleaning and internal lighting so we don't have these issues?

Until then I guess we will just have to imagine what Kate Walsh might say about the current CBI diamonds. I'm envisioning a spin off this commercial.

 

[motownmama]

i got inspired. Actually cleaned my ultrasonic, then used new cleaning product and hot water - OMG - Why oh why don't I do this more ofter?! I've been married almost 25 years and my ER looks like you just took it out of a jeweler's case!