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"Clarity Grade is Based on Clouds That are Not Shown"

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diddy

Rough_Rock
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Mar 28, 2009
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Hi All,

I''m new to the forum. I have found some great info on this site though, so thank you all for that.

However, I need HELP!!!!!!

I found a diamond for an engagement ring at Union Diamond. They are being super helpful so far but I need other opinions before spending around $5K!!!!

It is a GIA certified ideal princess cut, 1.09ct, G, VVS1, excellent polish, very good symmetry, no fluorescense.

The salesman says that it has tons of sparkle, is a great deal and truely a "perfect" diamond.

My concern..... on the report under comments it says "clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown"

Does this mean that there could be a huge cloud in the diamond that would affect the sparkle? Could someone elaborate a little for me please?

Also, they have anothe diamond for about the same price, same stats but is a 1.01ct without the clouds comment...which would you choose?

Thank you SO MUCH in advance for your responses!
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
no problem if it''s VVS1. The comment is only worrying at the SI grades and lower.
 

diddy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
49
forgot to mention:

75% Depth
75% Table
No Culet
Medium to Thick Girdle
5.44 x 5.36 x 4.02mm.


Thank you!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
I think you have the wrong concern.

I agree with Julie...no problem with clouds in a VVS stone.

But, I'd question in advance the performance of anyone's classification of a princess as Ideal, if it's not graded by AGS. That it's not seen by Union until they order it from another source is an additional complication...but their classification as ideal is based on a system of proportions that is not given much credibility on this board.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
I would question the credibility of a sales associate who calls a princess cut ideal without ever having seen it...I am assuming this is a drop shipped diamond - correct?
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Diddy, Neatfreak and I may be ill informed, and I may be jaded, but we''ve both been around here, and despite Union''s patter:


Date: 3/28/2009 8:18:15 PM
Author:diddy

I found a diamond for an engagement ring at Union Diamond. They are being super helpful so far but I need other opinions before spending around $5K!!!!

It is a GIA certified ideal princess cut, 1.09ct, G, VVS1, excellent polish, very good symmetry, no fluorescense.

The salesman says that it has tons of sparkle, is a great deal and truely a ''perfect'' diamond.
...we understand most or all options at Union Diamond are what we call "virtual," sold off lists, and not in house. Only a few vendors we know on this board have a reputation for a different business model.

So, for example, I was sorry not to see many options for you, but this is one you might consider. Since you included VVS1, the SI may freak you out, but if you ask G0G if it''s eye clean (you should), they should tell you honestly...

General shopping tips, btw, below my signature.

P.S. Do use the search bar, and include terms like Princess/ideal/AGS/proportions/necessity for reflector images, and see what kinds of other advice comes up...


Regards,
 

diddy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
49
Date: 3/28/2009 8:44:05 PM
Author: Regular Guy
I think you have the wrong concern.

I agree with Julie...no problem with clouds in a VVS stone.

But, I''d question in advance the performance of anyone''s classification of a princess as Ideal, if it''s not graded by AGS. That it''s not seen by Union until they order it from another source is an additional complication...but their classification as ideal is based on a system of proportions that is not given much credibility on this board.
Julie and Regular, thank you for your responses... I appreciate them. OK, so the clouds that are not shown are not that big of a deal since it is a VVS1 right?

This was the jewelers response to the clouds:
"On the GIA when they say ''clouds are not shown'' means that under 10X magnification which is standard in our industry on grading diamonds you will not be able to locate the pinpoints, under much higher magnification then there are pinpoints, as they cannot be located under 10X magnification then they do not have to be plotted."

And Regular Guy, just to clarify what I was told by the jeweler about the ideal princess. They said the following: "The diamond is an ideal cut princess cut diamond that has pure brilliance and scintillation, it really does not get any better ... The diamond really is a flawless diamond as there are no inclusions, super white, bright and clean, the diamond has ideal proportions and measurements, a great choice." The diamond is classified as "Select Ideal" according to Union''s standards.

The price is pretty fair compared to the rings I have been looking at at brick stores. But like you said Regular Guy, I am hesitant to pull the trigger b/c the Union salesperson who is saying that this is a "great" deal and great diamond is only looking at it on paper. Plus, I want a custom setting and I''m guessing that that will void the 30-day return policy ..... oh man .......
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Diddy-please listen to us. You CANNOT tell if a princess is ideal on paper. It could totally be a dud. Please think long and hard before purchasing something that is so important sight unseen to both you and the vendor.

I personally would call GOG, Whiteflash, and Mark at Engagement Rings Direct and see what they can find for you. THEY all will look at the stones with their eyes before telling you what they think and they all do awesome custom work too.
 

diddy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
49
Thank you all for your responses! Definitely appreciate them all!

I am going to research more of the links that everyone has provided to me in this thread on Monday (the future bride-to-be is too close for comfort!).

Again, I appreciate the excellent opinions so far, and any to come.
 

girlie-girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
819
Some of the comments from the vendor make me a bit uneasy. I never like it much when salespeople tell me what a great deal something is. Nor do I like them claiming something is flawless or perfect when it clearly wasn't graded as such by GIA.

I have to ditto the others when they say to go with one of the vendors who has princess cut stones in stock. They can definitively tell you how much it DOES sparkle or whatever, instead of how much it SHOULD, because they'll be looking at the stone with their own eyes.


Good luck in your quest!
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,324
I think it''s pretty ... you know... a little bit "sales-y" to say a diamond is flawless unless you are buying an IF clarity stone.
 

oldmancoyote

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
755
Date: 3/28/2009 9:18:39 PM
Author: diddy

Julie and Regular, thank you for your responses... I appreciate them. OK, so the clouds that are not shown are not that big of a deal since it is a VVS1 right?

This was the jewelers response to the clouds:
'On the GIA when they say 'clouds are not shown' means that under 10X magnification which is standard in our industry on grading diamonds you will not be able to locate the pinpoints, under much higher magnification then there are pinpoints, as they cannot be located under 10X magnification then they do not have to be plotted.'
[snip]
Taurine excrement. If the cloud is the grading inclusion (i.e. the most visible characteristic) and that were the case, then the stone would be graded IF or possibly FL if without blemishes on the external surface. Having said that, on a VVS1 any inclusion won't be a problem.

BTW - on a brilliant cut (round, princess, modern cushion, radiant), and a relatively small stone, I think you are going overboard with a VVS clarity. VS is plenty enough, and SI is even better value, although it will mean some legwork making sure it is eye-clean.

Others have already warned you about cut - particularly in non-rounds. Please heed them and ask for more info.
 
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