Clarification on AGS 0 vs. AGS 000 vs. AGS Super Ideal

[Kaycee2018]

Can someone please provide some clarification on this. I seem to see a lot of conflicting information posted about these references and I think reference to AGS 000 diamonds is often confused with AGS Super Ideal cut diamonds.

My understanding is:

AGS 0 = Stones with an AGS Cut Grade of 0 (Ideal), but have Color and/or Clarity grades higher than 0. So this designation relates strictly to cut grade.

AGS 000 = Stones with an AGS Cut Grade of 0 (Ideal), Color Grade of 0 and Clarity Grade of 0. So essentially, an AGS 000 stone is strictly reserved for diamonds with a grade of 0 for Cut, Color (meaning D), and Clarity (meaning F or IF) and does not necessarily make it a "Super Ideal" stone. Therefore this designation relates to cut grade, color grade and clarity grade.

AGS Super Ideal = Branded stones from certain AGS vendors with strict cut parameters (within AGS 0/Ideal Cut Grade), but can have Color and Clarity grades higher than 0 (so not necessarily AGS 000). Therefore this designation generally relates to cut grade only, although an AGS 000 can also be designated as a "Super Ideal".

Is this correct?

If so, then to say that "Good = GIA XXX, Better = AGS 0, Best = AGS 000" is a bit misleading. For Cut, AGS Super Ideals and stones with an AGS 0 Cut Grade are readily regarded as superior in terms of performance. However, you can find (with a lot of searching and proper scope images) GIA XXX stones that would have cut grades equivalent to AGS 0 (and thus AGS 000 if they are graded D in color and IF or F in clarity) or AGS Super Ideal.

I understand that the labs use different grading measures and that GIA's rounding can be problematic in estimating how a GIA graded stone would grade with AGS, but this is the gist of my understanding of these references. Can any experts clarify? Thanks!

 

[BlingDreams]

Here’s a great explanation from Whiteflash:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/what-is-an-ags-000.htm

 

[Kaycee2018]

Here’s a great explanation from Whiteflash:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/what-is-an-ags-000.htm

Thanks. So essentially, my description above of AGS 000 was correct until sellers began using the term AGS 000 or Triple Zero to reference cut only, which ultimately led these terms being used to reference cut only, without regard to color or clarity? Therefore, an AGS 0 and an AGS 000 designation are the same now and both only reference cut?

 

[BlingDreams]

Thanks. So essentially, my description above of AGS 000 was correct until sellers began using the term AGS 000 or Triple Zero to reference cut only, which ultimately led these terms being used to reference cut only, without regard to color or clarity? Therefore, an AGS 0 and an AGS 000 designation are the same now and both only reference cut?

Correct

 

[ringo865]

AGS 0 = ideal cut
The other three 000 designate:
ideal light performance,
Ideal polish,
Ideal symmetry
So if you had all of the above, technically it'd be AGS0000

There are two other 0s you could get for color and clarity

So maybe a DIF ideal could be called AGSsix0

 

[Kaycee2018]

AGS 0 = ideal cut
The other three 000 designate:
ideal light performance,
Ideal polish,
Ideal symmetry
So if you had all of the above, technically it'd be AGS0000

There are two other 0s you could get for color and clarity

So maybe a DIF ideal could be called AGSsix0

 

[WinkHPD]

AGS 0 = ideal cut
The other three 000 designate:
ideal light performance,
Ideal polish,
Ideal symmetry
So if you had all of the above, technically it'd be AGS0000

There are two other 0s you could get for color and clarity

So maybe a DIF ideal could be called AGSsix0

It can be confusing at times, and even then there will be differences in appearance between AGS 0 cut grades depending on the precision with which the diamonds are cut. So, while an AGS 0 cut grade is composed of the Light Performance, Polish and Symmetry grades, the fact that a diamond receives the AGS 0 cut grade does not mean that it will have a Hearts and Arrows pattern nor that it will have that extra dazzle that would have that diamond being considered by knowledgeable sellers and buyers as "Super Ideal".

That is why, even with an AGS 0 cut grade, it is important to see the reflector images such as ASET and Ideal-Scope.

Wink

 

[sledge]

It can be confusing at times, and even then there will be differences in appearance between AGS 0 cut grades depending on the precision with which the diamonds are cut. So, while an AGS 0 cut grade is composed of the Light Performance, Polish and Symmetry grades, the fact that a diamond receives the AGS 0 cut grade does not mean that it will have a Hearts and Arrows pattern nor that it will have that extra dazzle that would have that diamond being considered by knowledgeable sellers and buyers as "Super Ideal".

That is why, even with an AGS 0 cut grade, it is important to see the reflector images such as ASET and Ideal-Scope.

Wink

Thank you for clarifying @Wink.

Below was my understanding, which seems very similar to yours:

• AGS0 = ideal cut
• AGS000 = ideal cut, polish & symmetry
• SuperIdeal = AGS000 + true H&A symmetry + proprietary cut techniques

Unfortunately I think I may have been the cause for this thread as I used the good/better/best comment in a few other threads. I do not want to debate the statement but would like to apologize if others found this offensive. That was not the intent.

I was simply trying to provide a simplistic, broad category summary. While many of us would agree a majority of GIA stones would not meet the AGS0 criteria, it certainly does not encompass every GIA stone. So in that regards, it's an unfair statement to those particular GIA stones that would meet the AGS0 criteria and which many PS'ers may own -- which is why it may have ruffled some feathers. Again, my apologies as that was never the intent.

 

[Dancing Fire]

That is why, even with an AGS 0 cut grade, it is important to see the reflector images such as ASET and Ideal-Scope.

Wink

Indeed! ...USDA choice = ideal cuts, USDA Prime = perfect H&A ideal cuts and Kobe beef = CBI!

 

[sledge]

Indeed! ...USDA choice = ideal cuts, USDA Prime = perfect H&A ideal cuts and Kobe beef = CBI!

 

[Kaycee2018]

No offense at all, @sledge please don’t take my post personally. I have just seen the references used in a conflicting manner on several occasions and was looking for clarification as a newbie and hopefully for other newbies that may have also been confused. I believe that’s what this site is for...making the diamond buying experience less confusing to help people make more educated decisions It certainly helped me and I appreciate everyone’s contributions and opinions.

 

[Kaycee2018]

Indeed! ...USDA choice = ideal cuts, USDA Prime = perfect H&A ideal cuts and Kobe beef = CBI!

As a vegetarian for more nearly 25 years, this analogy falls on deaf ears with me

 

[whitewave]

I can’t stand Kobe beef. I actually said, “I can taste the suffering”

 

[sledge]

No offense at all, @sledge please don’t take my post personally. I have just seen the references used in a conflicting manner on several occasions and was looking for clarification as a newbie and hopefully for other newbies that may have also been confused. I believe that’s what this site is for...making the diamond buying experience less confusing to help people make more educated decisions It certainly helped me and I appreciate everyone’s contributions and opinions.

No worries. I have much tougher skin and didn't take it personally. I was more worried that my comments offended you or others. That is the last thing I want to do, as I like this forum and community as a whole.

And yes, questions like these are great and helps fuel the knowledge of others. I actually noticed a few other posts that was improperly using the terms. I didn't correct them but was hoping they'd find this thread eventually.

As a vegetarian for more nearly 25 years, this analogy falls on deaf ears with me

I can’t stand Kobe beef. I actually said, “I can taste the suffering”

Ah, ladies. I don't know how you can't get do beef. It's what's for dinner!

 

[Kaycee2018]

No worries. I have much tougher skin and didn't take it personally. I was more worried that my comments offended you or others. That is the last thing I want to do, as I like this forum and community as a whole.

And yes, questions like these are great and helps fuel the knowledge of others. I actually noticed a few other posts that was improperly using the terms. I didn't correct them but was hoping they'd find this thread eventually.





Ah, ladies. I don't know how you can't get do beef. It's what's for dinner!

No offense taken on my end, @sledge . My skin is plenty thick as well. *cheers*

 

[WinkHPD]

I can’t stand Kobe beef. I actually said, “I can taste the suffering”

I have to admit I am not a fan either. I do, however, love a good Rib Eye and I took one out to thaw this morning and will be throwing it on the Traeger when I get home this evening. I am going to pair it with a quarter of a great Honeydew Mellon that I ate over the last three days and an ear of corn on the cob.

My wife is out of town, so I will eat her half of the Rib Eye...

But not until tomorrow night.

Wink

 

[whitewave]

I have to admit I am not a fan either. I do, however, love a good Rib Eye and I took one out to thaw this morning and will be throwing it on the Traeger when I get home this evening. I am going to pair it with a quarter of a great Honeydew Mellon that I ate over the last three days and an ear of corn on the cob.

My wife is out of town, so I will eat her half of the Rib Eye...

But not until tomorrow night.

Wink

That sounds nice, Wink.

 

[sledge]

I have to admit I am not a fan either. I do, however, love a good Rib Eye and I took one out to thaw this morning and will be throwing it on the Traeger when I get home this evening. I am going to pair it with a quarter of a great Honeydew Mellon that I ate over the last three days and an ear of corn on the cob.

My wife is out of town, so I will eat her half of the Rib Eye...

But not until tomorrow night.

Wink

My future FIL invited us up for dinner a few weekends back. He had gotten a Traeger and was all anxious about how good or bad the ribs might be. Holy smokes -- they were F-R-E-A-K-I-N' amazing! Very little effort on his part to boot.

Hands down, my next purchase for me will be one of those Traeger's! Now if I can only stop bleeding money on wedding deposits. Man, what a racket! I've talked that grill up enough maybe my honey will surprise me with one.

 

[WinkHPD]

My wife resisted the Traeger for some time, but our old grill was beginning to die. In the meantime a friend had bought one and I thought I should call him and ask him what he thought. He said it was the best investment in cooking that he had ever made, and to top it off his wife had virtually taken over the cooking on the Traeger.

They invited us over to dinner and the deal was done.

We went to one of the local Traeger dealers the next day, just in time for the Father's Day sale. This was a little over three years ago. I now use it about two hundred nights a year. Like my friend, I think it was the best cooking investment I have ever made. Unlike my friend, my wife is totally happy to let me do all of the outdoor cooking.

I am pretty sure that when/if you get one, you will be glad you did!

Wink