chubb vs. jewelers mutual?

[reds]

I had jewelers mutual on my current diamond which I let go because I had to go to original jewler and get an appraisal every year and they moved. Will insure my new diamond and current diamond again when I make my purchase. Who is better to deal with? Was going to do it on homeowners but after reading some posts do not think this is wise. Any advice? Thank you in advance. Reds

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
I had jewelers mutual on my current diamond which I
let go because I had to go to original jewler and
get an appraisal every year and they moved.
-----------

An appraisal every year? I didn't realize Jewelers Mutual required that. It seems like overkill. Most insurance companies suggest a new appraisal be done every 3 years, with some making it mandatory every 5 years.

-----------
Who is better to deal with? Was going to do it on
homeowners but after reading some posts do not think
this is wise. Any advice?
-----------

Well for starters, I'd drop Jewelers Mutual from the list. The cost of a yearly appraisal is going to make them far less cost effective than a company more reasonable in their requirements.

What turned you off on homeowners? Most my clients have been very happy with theirs. Did you hear a bad report?

 

[reds]

Thanks for responding. After reading a few posts I may have been mistaken, but I had the impression that when an owner went to redeem the insurance on their ring that they did not get same ring that they previously had. That they had a replacement value of say 15,000 and only received 12-13k. I am not sure what type of insurance to buy. Say I pay 13,000(very good price for the diamond) the diamond apraises for 20,000 which maybe it would cost me 15-16k to get same quality etc. what insurance should I get. Sorry for long post but want to be careful.I am a little confused. Thank you. Reds

 

[Richard Sherwood]

The fine print in most insurance policies (except for Chubb) will say that they have the option of replacing the lost diamond with an equivalent one instead of paying you cash.

That's the reason a comprehensive appraisal will save you money in the long run instead of costing you money. If you have a vague appraisal, the insurance company can replace your lost diamond with another that ranks at the lowest parameter of that vague appraisal.

On the other hand, if your diamond is comprehensively described with all the details and some (or all) of the ancillary tests like IdealScope photos, H&A photos, BrillianceScope results, DiamCalc Light Return Analysis, etc, then the insurance company can't get away with replacing it with an inferior stone. You would just reject anything which didn't come up to par, and you would have the data to show the insurance company that this was the case.

The only thing you need to make sure of is to have an appraisal which will allow enough money for the diamond to be replaced with one as good as you've got. As long as that amount is covered you are assured of getting another stone as good as you had, or if the insurance company can't find it, they'll cash you out and you can search on your own for another one.

That's why a high insurance appraisal doesn't do you any good, and just causes you to pay extra premiums on a value which you won't receive anyway. The only amount you should be paying on is an amount which will assure you get an equivalent diamond in the event your's is lost.

 

[reds]

Your reply really helped alot! Thank you. Two more questions. Is the replacement figure best determined by pricescope and being David Atlas is very close to me, when I receive my diamond does he do some or all of the above that you recommend. You have been a big help! Thanks Reds

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Dave would do a great job of not only evaluating your diamond but making sure you're adequately covered with a reasonable replacement value.

 

[reds]

Thank you. Reds

 

[RockDoc]

In many instances Chubb doesn't require an appraisal.... This is based on the amount of the insured value.

They will use your receipts, and the method of payment if you have a loss is far superior than a replacement type policy.

Call Dave Stone ( Chubb agent ) .... He is very helpful.
800-473-6603

Rockdoc

 

[JC]

Well, I can say that this question drew concern to me. I got my fiance's ring insured through Jewelers Mutual. Was this a bad idea? I had no idea that I was going to have to get her ring appraised every year just to keep my insurance valid. Is this the case? Will I now have to take her ring each year to be appraised all over again? That seems like a headache.....

 

[newenglandgemlab]

Hi,
It is my understanding that Jewelers Mutual requires regular inspections including checking for wear and maintaining current values. It doesn't necessarily require a full appraisal every year, just someone to sign off that they have looked over the information and everything is fine. Cindy

 

[JC]

newenglandgemlab,

Thank you for your response. That makes me feel a lot better.

 

[reds]

Your right it wasn't a full blown inspection but I did need to have it checked by the place where my fiance bought it to sign off on it. If you get it from someone not in the area, who would be willing to do it for you, if you did not purchase the ring from them?

 

[JMIC]

Allow me to clear up some misunderstanding with Jewelers Mutual's Personal Jewelry Insurance policy.

On an every three year basis, policyholders are required to have their jewelry inspected by their preferred jeweler. It doesn't even have to be the original jeweler. We provide customers with a form that the jeweler would sign at the time of the inspection. A new appraisal is not required by us.

Inspections provide the jeweler with an opportunity to identify small problems like loose stones, worn prongs, faulty clasps, etc., before they turn into bigger problems. It also allows the jeweler to check the current value and recommend adjustments so that there is sufficient coverage.

While we only require an inspection every three years, items that are worn on a regular basis should be inspected by a jeweler at least annually. These items are more prone to loss or damage.

Thanks!

Tom Adelmann
Jewelers Mutual Ins. Co.

 

[sylvesterii]

wow. good to know. Hopefully you will stick around and help out with the insurance side of these questions. that is if you can be objective

. All kidding aside though, thank you for the input. puts a lot of us at ease.

 

[reds]

Thank you so much Tom. My previous policy, the ring had to be inspected every yeay for the policy to remain in effect but that was a few years ago. Nice to know it has changed. One more question, if I buy my ring out of state, would a local jewelry store mind doing the inspection on a ring not bought there or what would you recommend? REDS

 

[JMIC]

"If I buy my ring out of state, would a local jewelry store mind doing the inspection on a ring not bought there or what would you recommend? REDS"

Hi REDS,

It all depends on the jeweler you select and what type of service you are asking for.

If you are looking to have jewelry inspected to see if it is good condition, our experience is that most jewelers will do this for no charge even if you didn't purchase it at their store.

If you are looking to have the jewelry re-evaluated for current replacement cost and you go to a jeweler who did not sell or appraise the jewelry, they may have to do a new appraisal which most likely will result in a charge. For our policyholders who return to the original jeweler or appraiser, our experience is that most of them still do the re-evaluation for no charge.

When our policyholders are looking for a different jeweler to inspect their jewelry, our recommendation to them is to call ahead and explain what they are looking for, and to ask the jeweler what charge, if any, will be made.

By changing the inspection frequency to every 3 years, we hope that we have made it easier for our Personal Jewelry policyholders to continue to do business with Jewelers Mutual.

Tom Adelmann
Jewelers Mutual Ins. Co.

 

[dcraig]

My appraiser, the Jewelry Judge in Garden City, charges $30 for the inspection.

 

[ame]

I went with Chubb because I want to have an option of whether to replace it or have it cashed out so I can do what I want. I was really really disappointed when reading through a JM policy my parents had. They actually just cancelled theirs because they read my Chubb. For the same price they have more coverage and better options.

I believe with Chubb you only need an appraisal if its over 10K or 20K.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

What if you purchased it for a lot less than it was worth? For example, my ring was approximately 5500 dollars, but has been appraised at over 10K. If Chubb goes by receipts and such, then I''m not insured for the actual value of the ring. Can someone explain this to me?

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/15/2005 6:56:25 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae
What if you purchased it for a lot less than it was worth? For example, my ring was approximately 5500 dollars, but has been appraised at over 10K. If Chubb goes by receipts and such, then I''m not insured for the actual value of the ring. Can someone explain this to me?

Sounds like the appraisal you have isn''t worth the paper it''s writen on.

If YOU as a consumer were able to buy it for $ 5500.00 - what do you think an insurance company would have to pay to replace it? They are big purchasers of jewelry and diamond items.

So if you have a replacement policy and choose not to get the replacement stone, then all they will pay is what their suppliers quote them for the replacement. Depending on where you bought the stone, the replacement cost to the insurance company might be close or far less. If the stone costs more to replace than your coverage, then you will only get the insured amount.

With Chubb they only require an appraisal over $ 25,000. Plus they will pay up to 50 % more if the replacement cost should be more than the stated, insured amount on the policy.

Then, read your policy.... it probably says somewhere in it that you have disclosed any material facts that affects their risk.

Then put yourself in the place of the insurance company. Don''t you think that accepting a potential claim for $ 10,000 ( the amount on your appraisal) affects their risk? This is why in a replacement type policy, they limit what they pay, and because most appraisal values are excessive, they get premiums based on the higher amount, knowing they probably won''t have to pay that amount to actually replace it, and then only for the small percentage of insured that actually do have a cliam.

In the event of them discovering that you didn''t dislose a material fact they have the OPTION of vacating the claim. This means they refund the premiums you paid and deny payment of the claim. However, it is not the general practice to do this, but it''s the insurance companies option to do so, and on some claims they have.

Overvalued appraisals cost not only more premiums, but put the consumer at risk, if : a) the appraisal is done by an interested,biased party ( such as a seller) or b) the customer possibly gets their claim vacated.

Another fact is that insurance companies replace items similar to what you bought, so they know almost as well as the appraiser what the value is.

Rockdoc

 

[denverappraiser]

I think the Jewelers Mutual and other companies that offer replacement type policies are being undervalued here. For the record, I’m a Jewelers Mutual client.

Inspections:
Any piece of jewelry that is being worn should be inspected by a professional regularly. Gold and platinum are not very good structural materials and many peoples hands are subjected to quite a bit of wear. Prongs bend, channels wear, stones chip. Certain kinds of damage can increase the risk of other problems considerably and catching and repairing the problems early can save significant future difficulties. Requiring an inspection every 3 years by a qualified professional is NOT an unreasonable request from the people who are assuming the liability for the problems. You should do this anyway, no matter what company issues your policy and even if you choose to self-insure. Especially if you self-insure. I usually recommend having someone look at it every 6 months if the piece is worn continuously. As was pointed out above, these inspections are usually free and can normally be done while you wait and while you watch.
Payments:
This is really the issue. What happens if you have a loss and they have to pay?

Replacement policies will pay cash if you request it. The difference is that they will pay cash based on the amount of the expected replacement cost, not on the bottom line value of the appraisal. If you appraisal was done in a reasonable fashion, this is going to be fairly close to the number being used by the company to set your rates.
Let’s make up an example:
You buy a ring with a ‘retail’ value of $15,000 and you actually pay $5,000. Let’s further assume that your insurer can replace it for that same $5,000 that you paid (which is likely). You get it appraised from a competent appraiser for $6K, which is 20% over cost and go with Jewelers Mutual. Two years later you file a claim and it has increased in value to $5,500. You want cash. Here’s what happens.

They send you to a replacement company who estimates out the cost to the company to replace the piece at the then current market rate - $5,500. The store offers you a ring and charges you the deductible. Let’s use $500. You decline and say that you want the money. JM will cut you a check for $5000 ($5,500 minus the deductible). You take the money and do with it as you wish.

Let’s look at the same scenario with Chubb. They will cut you a check up front for $4,500 ($5k original purchase price minus your $500 deductible) with no questions. If you go to the store and they say that replacement will now cost $5,500, Chubb will pay you $5000 (again $5,500 minus the deductible). If you had based your Chubb policy on the same $6k appraisal, they would pay you $5,500. As with the above, you can do with the money as you see fit.

You can tweak these numbers and compare different variations of the program. Try it with larger and smaller deductibles, cost, replacement prices etc. The only times that the JM approach comes out unsatisfactory is when you have a great disparity between the actual cost, the replacement cost and the stated appraisal value. Insuring something based on a $15k appraisal for which you paid $5k and that could be replaced for $2k will not look good in the end but it wasn’t the insurance company that caused the problem.

Price:
In most markets, a JM policy is less than half the price of a comparable Chubb policy.
Chubb, by the way, is not the only company that offers defined value policies. Firemans’ Fund, Lloyds of London, and several others also offer this type of coverage.

Consumers should use good shopping skills for your insurance products just like they are using when they shop for diamonds, for jewelry or for an appraiser. Both companies here are fine outfits and offer a quality service for their clients. It''s not a ''one size fits all'' type of question.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[aphisiglovessae]

I was under the impression (from reading the policies of jeweler''s mutual and chubb) that there is no deductible. I''m a little confused about that. A $500 deductible seems awfully high.

Also, both the ring and the diamond were purchased straight from the dealers (no middle-man), which makes the appraisal seem not so unreasonable to me considering how much normal retailers mark up jewelry. I''m going to have an additional appraisal that''s more in detail than the original anyway. I''m just concerned about getting covered for the ring''s actual value and not the amount we paid for it. We got a really good deal and I don''t know if that''s going to happen again.

 

[rosy]

Have you checked out Jewelers Mutual website? You can get rate quotes online based on the state you live in & also there are different deductions or no deduction options. Maybe you should call their toll free number & talk to someone that works there that can better answer your questions. I have done so & they are very helpful.

 

[denverappraiser]

Aphisiglovessae,

The dealer my very well have sold you the ring for less than they would have charged an insurance company but this strikes me as unlikely. Insurance companies are very large clients and they are pretty savvy shoppers. The prices being asked by ‘normal retailers’ is usually not relevant to the insurance question since that is neither where you made your purchase nor will it be where the insurance company will make theirs in the case of a claim.

If you got an unusually good deal, this should be reflected in the appraisal. For insurance purposes, the appraisal should show a value at which the insurance company can be able to replace the item with another of like kind and quality in the case of a loss. Less than that will leave you underinsured and greater than that will have you paying too much in premiums for the coverage you’re receiving.

Deductible amounts will vary from policy to policy, from company to company and even from state to state. I used the $500 number as an example only although it’s pretty typical. The same math works with a zero deductible. By all means, rely on the information supplied by the insurance company and feel free to ignore my advice in its entirety. Each policy is slightly different and the details are important.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Jimbo34]

Date: 4/16/2005 8:13

1 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae


Also, both the ring and the diamond were purchased straight from the dealers (no middle-man), which makes the appraisal seem not so unreasonable to me considering how much normal retailers mark up jewelry. I''m just concerned about getting covered for the ring''s actual value and not the amount we paid for it. We got a really good deal and I don''t know if that''s going to happen again.

We have the same concerns, just how much to insure it for since what we paid and the apprasial of the ring is quite different. If it was ever lost or stolen we would want as nice as ring in place of the one we have now. It might not be possible to find such a nice ring with the same money we actually paid for it.

Just not sure what an insurance company would judge the value of the ring at, what we paid or the apprasial sum? Never in my wildest dreams did I expect such a huge difference in both figures.

Jimbo34 < still confused

 

[aphisiglovessae]

This is what I read off of www.chubb.com:

Chubb understands that you''ve made an important emotional and financial decision by choosing an engagement ring. We also understand how important it is to protect this symbolic and significant purchase. When you have itemized coverage for your engagement ring with Chubb:

* It will be fully covered for the itemized amount shown on the policy.

* No deductible applies in the event of a claim.

* Broad coverage applies anywhere in the world. Your ring will be insured if it is lost or stolen wherever you go.

* You receive broader coverage than a standard homeowners policy offers. Many homeowners policies limit jewelry coverage to just $1,000 and will not cover lost or misplaced valuables.

* Unlike other insurance companies, Chubb does not require you to replace the ring and will offer you a prompt cash settlement for the itemized amount of coverage after a covered loss. However, if you decide to purchase a new ring, Chubb allows you to use the jeweler of your choice, instead of steering you towards an "approved list" of jewelers.

and in the section about the masterpiece coverage:

Hassle-free appraisal requirements. Unlike many other insurance companies, Chubb does not require an appraisal for every piece that you itemize. For most possessions, we simply need a description of the item and a value. We generally require an appraisal only for fine art worth more than $100,000, jewelry worth more than $50,000, and any other item valued over $25,000.

150% replacement cost. Chubb''s valuable articles policy provides safeguards for items that appreciate. If the market value (before the loss) of an item lost or damaged in a covered loss is greater than the itemized amount listed on the policy, we will pay the market value up to 150% of the itemized coverage amount for the item.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Jewelers Mutual is not very detailed on coverage, but lists the general requirements and what they do in case of loss. I''m leaning more towards Chubb, but I''m still a little afraid of the replacement stuff. I guess the only way I''m going to get a real answer is if I find a agent or broker in my area.

 

[JMIC]

There has been some ongoing discussion as to details regarding Jewelers Mutual’s Personal Jewelry Insurance program. Please allow me to provide you with some additional information to clarify our product and correct some of the statements made:

· We provide coverage for loss, theft, damage, and mysterious disappearance. About the only things we don’t cover are normal wear & tear, gradual deterioration, and intentional acts.

· While the policy is available to residents of the U.S., the coverage is worldwide. It follows you wherever you go.

· Most of our customers choose to insure their jewelry without a deductible. However, deductible options are available which can help lower the insurance premium. The rate calculator on our web site, www.InsureYourJewelry.com, allows you to obtain a quote with no deductible. If you actually apply for insurance using our online application, you can obtain quotes with different deductible options.

· Our policy is intended to replace or repair your jewelry with items of like kind and quality. We do not contract out with jewelry replacement companies. We allow our customers to use the jeweler of their choice, the one they already know and trust, for the repair or replacement.

· While we encourage regular visits to your jeweler to have your jewelry inspected, we require inspections every three years. Please note that an inspection is different than an appraisal. We only require appraisals when we first insure an item. Inspections provide an opportunity for your jeweler to professionally clean your jewelry, identify small problems before they turn into bigger ones, and adjust values to current replacement costs. Our experience has been that as long as you return to the original jeweler who made the sale or did the initial appraisal, most jewelers will complete the 3 year inspection free-of-charge.

You can reach a customer service representative at 1-888-884-2424 if you have specific questions. I also would be happy to answer any insurance questions you may have. Thanks.

Tom Adelmann
Jewelers Mutual Ins. Co.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

JMIC...I tried using the calculator, but I think there was something wrong with it...no matter what values I put in and totaled, the total premium came up to be $25...that can't be correct?! What is going on??

UPDATE: Never mind I figured it out!! Duh me!!