Choosing the best 1 ct Super-ideal

[Wallyhenry]

After much thought and deliberation and a lot of reading on this forum I decided to upgrade my budget to buy a super-ideal stone for an engagement ring. This will be my first ever diamond purchase and I'm both anxious and excited about this project. I am working with a local jeweller on the band design but will buy the stone online. I shortlisted the candidates to these ones based on my criteria (1+ ct, G+, SI1+). Looking for your thoughts on these super ideals with the big 3:

GOG
1.04 G SI1 https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...S-G-SI1-diamond-stock-15929-cert-104093288002 - good value. worried about twinning wisps affecting performance/durability

CBI:
1.03 G SI1 https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8792
1.03 G SI1 https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8796 - nice spread
1.05 G SI1 https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8983 - love the large spread

WF:
1.04 G SI1 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3802924.htm - scuff marks on hearts image a concern? light leakage at 10 and 2.
1.038 G VS2 https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3893609.htm - scuff marks on hearts image and light leak at 4 and 5 (looks worse than SI1)

 

[Wallyhenry]

I just realized that the GOG link went dead as I placed it on hold. Here are the images for the GOG 1.04 G SI1. I asked them to send me another picture of the crown to check if the light leakage at 9 o'clock is consistent

 

[Matthews1127]

I'm team CBI. #1 is my top pick, without viewing a video. All 3 should be examined with video to determine if any of the inclusions rest against the table, or obstruct under the table. The IS & ASET for #1 are quite clear, and I love the patterns. There seems to be even distribution across the stone, so I don't believe there is any imbalance of symmetry, nor darker areas on one side than on the other. I have a feeling it will be a very good performer. Only way to know for certain is to request the video. All 3 CBI's may be close contenders; videos are necessary to know for sure.
I'd* eliminate GOG & WF; CBI, in this case, is my top choice.

After seeing your update of the GOG diamond, I take that back. GOG is in the running. It may even beat CBI #1!!

 

[Wallyhenry]

@Matthews1127 Thanks for the input!

For CBI 1 - I noticed a slight inconsistency in the centre star on the IS image at 7 o'clock. Would that be a concern for light leakage?

For the GOG diamond - should i be worried about the twinning wisps going across the diamond and to the sides? i.e. will it affect performance or durability of the stone?

 

[gm89uk]

Don't see light leakage at 9oclock. GOG will answer that for you better than anyone here, ask them, they will tell you honestly, they can provide you with videos next to VS/VVS stones.

No will not affect durability, performance probably not, but ask. Twinning wisps are some of the best inclusions for SI. Some trade members have stated you can get 'snow globe' phenomenon at certain angles with twinning wisps. Wouldn't expect it in this stone with hardly being under the table

Buy on price, and upgrade policy that suits you, all will have good performance.

 

[rockysalamander]

HighPerformanceDiamonds has the best buyback guarantee of the three (guarantee for life at 80%). I also just slightly prefer the look of CBI over WF with all else being equal, although there will be just as many here who prefer a different super-ideal over another. If you can drop to an H color (which I find imperceptible to most), this would get a larger spread with VS2 clarity.

6.64 mm, https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7828

Since all these companies have very generous policies, there is far less risk at lowering color than from other vendors IMHO. Because if you or your GF end up being sensitive, you can just swap the stone with the seller without any fuss.

GOG on left (6.48 mm), my suggested CBI on right (6.64 mm).

 

[cflutist]

HighPerformanceDiamonds has the best buyback guarantee of the three (guarantee for life at 80%). I also just slightly prefer the look of CBI over WF with all else being equal, although there will be just as many here who prefer a different super-ideal over another. If you can drop to an H color (which I find imperceptible to most), this would get a larger spread with VS2 clarity.

6.64 mm, https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7828

Since all these companies have very generous policies, there is far less risk at lowering color than from other vendors IMHO. Because if you or your GF end up being sensitive, you can just swap the stone with the seller without any fuss.

GOG on left (6.48 mm), my suggested CBI on right (6.64 mm).

Excellent advice Rockysalamander, I concur.

 

[Dancing Fire]

6.64 mm, https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7828

I'll take it!.Mine kind of stone!...

 

[Wallyhenry]

Thank you all for the help so far...

I got a new ASET and a video from GOG for the 1.04 G SI1 with the twinning wisps.. I though under the first lighting it didn't sparkle too much, and had a yellowish color (is that fire or yellow tint?). Thoughts? does this sway your opinion one way or another?

@gm89uk doesn't look like there is light leakage at 9 o'clock which I thought was the case from the original clarity image. GOG also mentioned that twinning wisps appears to be by far the cleanest SI1 they have seen.

@rockysalamander thanks for the recommendation on the larger spread diamond! I love the spread! Now my biggest concern is a yellow tint with an H, which I know for sure that my fiancé-to-be doesn't like. Also this stone is on hold (not by me). I asked CBI if they can compare it to the other candidates shortlisted if it doesn't sell.

I live in Canada I would like to avoid returns like the plague.. because courier cost and customs can be a major pain and above all, time consuming and won't meet my timeline to have a diamond and a custom ring put together in the next 3-4 weeks...

Which diamond would be more fiery? Can you help me rank/short list 3 stones from best to "least best" so I have a backup in case one of them doesn't pan out? So far based on your comments it looks like WF stones are out of the running, and the HPD7828 rockysalamander suggested gets the best recommendation, would GOG be a close second? or another one?

 

[Matthews1127]

Thank you all for the help so far...

I got a new ASET and a video from GOG for the 1.04 G SI1 with the twinning wisps.. I though under the first lighting it didn't sparkle too much, and had a yellowish color (is that fire or yellow tint?). Thoughts? does this sway your opinion one way or another?

@gm89uk doesn't look like there is light leakage at 9 o'clock which I thought was the case from the original clarity image. GOG also mentioned that twinning wisps appears to be by far the cleanest SI1 they have seen.

@rockysalamander thanks for the recommendation on the larger spread diamond! I love the spread! Now my biggest concern is a yellow tint with an H, which I know for sure that my fiancé-to-be doesn't like. Also this stone is on hold (not by me). I asked CBI if they can compare it to the other candidates shortlisted if it doesn't sell.

I live in Canada I would like to avoid returns like the plague.. because courier cost and customs can be a major pain and above all, time consuming and won't meet my timeline to have a diamond and a custom ring put together in the next 3-4 weeks...

Which diamond would be more fiery? Can you help me rank/short list 3 stones from best to "least best" so I have a backup in case one of them doesn't pan out? So far based on your comments it looks like WF stones are out of the running, and the HPD7828 rockysalamander suggested gets the best recommendation, would GOG be a close second? or another one?

The yellow tint you see is the diamond picking up a tone in the lighting in the video. As the video continues, and you see the stone in different light environments, that tint disappears. Diamonds are reflective, and that is what you saw in the early part of the video. G color is in nearly colorless range. Typically, G stones face up bright white, and variable tint is usually only seen from the bottom
Or side, once it's set. How you set the stone will determine how much or little of the tint will be noticeable.
GOG is a strong contender for ME. SI1 eye clean & damn beautiful!!!

 

[LLJsmom]

I like the GOG in the video too. The tint is probably the environment. It's a G so it won't look yellow. Very lively and I'm not seeing any dark areas so far. Super safe bet.

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you all for the help so far...

I got a new ASET and a video from GOG for the 1.04 G SI1 with the twinning wisps.. I though under the first lighting it didn't sparkle too much, and had a yellowish color (is that fire or yellow tint?). Thoughts? does this sway your opinion one way or another?

@gm89uk doesn't look like there is light leakage at 9 o'clock which I thought was the case from the original clarity image. GOG also mentioned that twinning wisps appears to be by far the cleanest SI1 they have seen.

@rockysalamander thanks for the recommendation on the larger spread diamond! I love the spread! Now my biggest concern is a yellow tint with an H, which I know for sure that my fiancé-to-be doesn't like. Also this stone is on hold (not by me). I asked CBI if they can compare it to the other candidates shortlisted if it doesn't sell.

I live in Canada I would like to avoid returns like the plague.. because courier cost and customs can be a major pain and above all, time consuming and won't meet my timeline to have a diamond and a custom ring put together in the next 3-4 weeks...

Which diamond would be more fiery? Can you help me rank/short list 3 stones from best to "least best" so I have a backup in case one of them doesn't pan out? So far based on your comments it looks like WF stones are out of the running, and the HPD7828 rockysalamander suggested gets the best recommendation, would GOG be a close second? or another one?

Working on this. How much is the GOG stone? I can't see the price.

 

[rockysalamander]

Because you have some choices, I'm going to be ultra picky and eliminate anything with a crystal in the central portion of the table.

So, here in my list. 1,2, and 3 are all equally good (but I give CBI the edge because I just like them a hair more). After that, I ranked mostly by size. We'll need to see videos of the CBI stones to be sure.

 

[rockysalamander]

p.s. color is very personal. If you've taken her to see diamonds and anything under a G bothered her, then stick with G. We are talking about only 0.1 mm difference between the largest and next size down. Be comfortable with your choice.

What kind of setting are you considering?

 

[Wallyhenry]

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. @rockysalamander I like how you laid out the options in a table. I rebuilt your table with some more detail and updates.

GOG stone wins best value for color & weight. However it does score 1.7 on HCA score with only "v.good" scintillation and spread. I have a 360 of the stone that I'm not able to attach, on it you can see the twinning wisps face-up on the stone.. they're very faint and white that I wouldn't have noticed them if I wasn't looking for them... on second review of the dark clarity image from my second post though there is a horizontal white line at 8 o'clock that seems a bit wider than the rest (should I be concerned with cracking in the future or am I just overthinking it?).

I eliminated a couple of CBI stones after noticing a light leak on their hearts image (did I make the right judgement by eliminating the bottom 2?.

I'm stuck on these ranks... what are your thoughts on the CBI 1.07 H-VS2 which by far has the best spread? I still prefer a G color unless the H performs better on video next to G without a perceivable color difference....

we are getting closer... I can feel it...

 

[Wallyhenry]

For the setting I'm looking at a custom platinum solitaire with a "kick" which is collar underneath the crown. Here is an initial render. I think I might change the crown to a 6 prong though....

 

[rockysalamander]

Good summary. First, eliminate any use or consideration of the HCA tool. The only purpose of that tool is to narrow down from a massive pool of diamonds (ideal) to a narrower pool of those with predicted performance. You have ASET and IS. They trump the HCA. You are trying to use a coarse filter as a fine filter.

Second, the Hearts Image is illuminated only to allow you to view the hearts and arrows. I also find it helpful with looking at inclusions. It shows you nothing about light performance or leakage, only the pattern of the cutting. Use the ASET for light return.

Third, you will see zero performance difference between any stone within a CBI rating (same as within ACA). The tolerance for these stones are incredibly tight. You will maybe see a differnce in the type of performance, if you are crazy observant, between super-ideal brands. When selecting non-super ideal, you worry about performance between stones....not necessary once within super-ideal. So, the question to focus on is how best to balance the color, cost and clarity.

BGD - Cracking in the future is 100% overthinking/over worrying . It would get an I1 or I2 rating if it was structural. No chance or risk of that at all. But, if you can see them and it bothers you visually, then that stone is not for you.

If it were me, I would ask HPD to look at the stones in your budget and talk with them about your clarity and color concerns. You are at the point where you need human eyes to evaluate these diamonds in person. If you eliminate the BGD (not saying you should), then its all HPD. I 150% trust Wink's eye. He will not up sell you. He's gonna tell you the truth about each stone. So, just send them an email asking for help.Decide what is more important size or color or clarity. My read of your analysis is that G is safe, H is a maybe (raises mind-clean issues for you). You want mind-clean clarity.

Smaller than some, but mind clean in color at G and clarity.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7973

Gain back some size mind clean, but more expensive.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8386

The H's in your table are all worth consideration.

 

[rockysalamander]

The setting. Color can typically only be detected in near colorless stones from the side for the highly color observant. If you change your 4-prong for a 6-prong, that will greatly eliminate the side view. See #3 below. Really nice profile.

If you are going for a collar, I'd suggest one with a bit more flow with the setting. I like the idea of the ring you showed, but the collar could be more fluid with the design. If you go with the straight collar, just have them make it a big wider like #4 and allow the prongs to raise from a slightly wider base. The collar just look too tight.

Harry Winston

Mazal Diamonds
http://www.mazaldiamond.com/round-b...dded-band,art,en,701,537,522,546,539,7457.htm

MCD Diamonds - Not this large, but see the flow that works better?
http://mdcdiamonds.com/engagementdetails.cfm?Stock=ES1812RGBS&Country=US#

Raven Fine Jewelers on Etsy

(A Jaffe Single Collar)

 

[OoohShiny]

That sort of setting is great for maximising light entering the stone from all angles, and it also makes it a breeze to clean, therefore ensuring best performance!

 

[cflutist]

You really can't go wrong with any of the super ideals, but this is what I would do.
First, ask @Wink to make you a video comparing the G HPD8792 and the 1.09 H-VS2 side by side showing both the pavilions and the table-up views. Then you may see a subtle difference, or may may not. If not, go for the larger H.
Assuming that the H is still in the running, then ask Wink to send you the 1.09 H-VS2 on his dime with all the tools, ASETscope, H&A viewer, etc. so that you can see it with your own eyes. Ask your future wife to view it also, but don't tell her it is an H. Guage her reaction and make a decision. If you need mind clean, then go with rockysalamander 's choice of G-VS2.

Looking at diamonds for more than 30 years, I can tell you that my F-SI1 CBI faces up a lot whiter than my F-SI1 pear when viewed side by side on overcast days.

Take a CBI for a test drive and see it for yourself. I know I was sold which is why I recently bought a 2nd CBI diamond.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-home
There is a tab at the top about the See It to Believe It program.
Good luck with your search.

 

[gm89uk]

You can see the twinning wisps with a naked eye?

I'd really choose the best value one, GOG has a pretty decent upgrade policy too.

 

[whitewave]

CBI. I have an incredible stone. You should try it.

 

[Wallyhenry]

Thanks all.

@rockysalamander I knew I was overtaking the twinning wisps as cracks or potential cracks. I just had to hear it from an expert that my concerns are invalid. So far GOG stone sits fairly high on my list because of its value (it is $450 less than CBI for the same color/clarity). The stone is eye clean and dazzling as far as I can tell from the video. The wisps are only visible in magnified view.

It appears that the majority here recommend CBI, and their return/trade in policy and the "see it to believe it" program goes to show how confident HPD's confidence in their product, which could sway my decision...

From chatting with a sales rep with HPD, she believes that she can change my mind about my color preference of D and is suggesting I consider going down to an I. I couldn't believe that this stone was an I. Absolutely stunning! http://handshake2.jivesystems.com/videos/05nysr1l90

She made a compelling argument that the cut makes the color appear grades higher than spec'd on certificates. I'm still skeptical about the appearance of the stone from the side especially when I'm considering a minimalistic band design that will reveal a fair share of the diamond's side. That being said, I am willing to entertain a side by side comparison of a G-H-I set.

 

[Wallyhenry]

Here are some updates and a summary of my thought process with some videos.. I'm breaking down the choices into groups based on the color/clarity combos. From the 2 videos I've seen so far it still is a close call...

Group 1: (G-SI; smaller diameter of 6.50-6.56 mm):
HPD 8792 (1.03 G SI1 - 6.50mm),
HPD 8983(1.052 G SI1 6.56mm), http://handshake2.jivesystems.com/videos/339apxnshy?tag=121335
HPD7821(1.058 G SI1 6.56 mm)
GOG (1.04 G SI1 - 6.50 mm)

Group 2: (H-VS2, moderate diameter 6.65-6.67 mm):
HPD 7828 (1.093 H VS2 - 6.65mm),
HPD 7613 (1.071 H VS2 - 6.67mm)

Group 3: (I-VS1, large diameter 6.8 mm):
HPD 7837 (1.17 I VS1 - 6.8 mm)

I will be receiving a side by side comparison of the stones from each group pretty soon. Looking for your thoughts/impressions so far. Tough choices!! I want them all!!!

 

[Wallyhenry]

@rockysalamander regarding the band, I see your point about the collar being too tight. I'll make a note to the jeweller about this. I like the raven fine jewellers example you posted. I'm going more for a 'hidden collar design' that shouldn't be visible from the top down but will add sparkle from the side. Here is a video showing the end product that I would like to achieve (imagine a 6 claw design with it).

Do you have any thoughts for 4 vs. 6 prong design and the claw style/design?

 

[Wallyhenry]

You really can't go wrong with any of the super ideals, but this is what I would do.
First, ask @Wink to make you a video comparing the G HPD8792 and the 1.09 H-VS2 side by side showing both the pavilions and the table-up views. Then you may see a subtle difference, or may may not. If not, go for the larger H.
Assuming that the H is still in the running, then ask Wink to send you the 1.09 H-VS2 on his dime with all the tools, ASETscope, H&A viewer, etc. so that you can see it with your own eyes. Ask your future wife to view it also, but don't tell her it is an H. Guage her reaction and make a decision. If you need mind clean, then go with rockysalamander 's choice of G-VS2.

Looking at diamonds for more than 30 years, I can tell you that my F-SI1 CBI faces up a lot whiter than my F-SI1 pear when viewed side by side on overcast days.

Take a CBI for a test drive and see it for yourself. I know I was sold which is why I recently bought a 2nd CBI diamond.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-home
There is a tab at the top about the See It to Believe It program.
Good luck with your search.

Good to know - wondering where your F-SI1 pear was from?

I like the test drive policy however I'm on a tight timeline so unfortunately I won't have time to go through the process.

 

[whitewave]

I briefly had a K HPD/CBI and it faced up white. I traded it in for larger and the new stone happened to be a G. But the ka faced up white. Be open to the I.

 

[cflutist]

Good to know - wondering where your F-SI1 pear was from?

I like the test drive policy however I'm on a tight timeline so I won't have time to go through the process.

I bought the pear locally in San Francisco back in 1996. It came with a GIA report.

Also remember that HPD has a lifetime tradeup policy, just buy a diamond that is $1 more. Wink told me that there is one client who has upgraded 4 or 5 tiimes but I don't know who she is, nor the specifics of her multiple upgrades. WF and GOG also have tradeup policies but I don't know the specifics of theirs.
HPD also has an 80% buyback for any reason policy. I already told my dear hubby that if I should die first, that he should give HPD a call and sell back my two CBI diamonds.
Good luck with your purchase. I am sure that your future wife will love whichever diamond you choose.

 

[rockysalamander]

I cannot find a single example of a 6-prong with a collar like you selected. But, I think you could use a head like the below example. Then have the collar float below that. I would want to see a bit of triangle under the N/S prong like the below.



Something like this offer a bit of flow and it avoid the empty space behind the halo that make it not flow to my eyes. This would still be invisible from above. I actually like the yellow gold and if your GF likes it, that collar in rose gold would be a really pretty addition. You could have a similar 6-prong head as above and have the paved between the stones as well.




Totally invisible from the top

RavenFineJewelers

EDITED TO ADD. The two toned version I posted is a 7 mm stone.

 

[rockysalamander]

If these are all in budget, I'd would go with #3 if you can get comfortable with an I. Its the biggest and has lovely clarity. But, you basically have all great options. The 1.17 I VS1 is on hold...by you I hope?

Just a note, for my personal stones, I usually land at G/H in non-super ideals, but I'll drop to an I comfortably in super ideals.