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Choosing between: 3.4ct in-house vs overseas stone

HockeyChick

Rough_Rock
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Nov 6, 2015
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I've opted to go custom and will be going with Leon Mege for my ring. We are currently looking for the right RB stone.

The two lead contenders are 1 - Overseas stone I found online and 2 - Stone located by a cutter LM works with.

The online stone is located overseas has a great HCA score and all the stats look perfect. It does have strong flour (which I like) and when I inquired, they didn't have additional pics for me but said it isn't milky or oily and the fluor doesn't affect the stone negatively.
Stats:
3.4ct G VVS1 - "internal graining is not shown" note
Flour: Very Strong Blue
9.55-9.62x5.96
Table: 57%
Depth: 62.1%
Crown: 35.5
Pav: 40.6
GIA X X X
HCA score 1.9 - Slightly steep crown angle but the pav angle seems to balance it out, if I've read everything correctly.
Price: ~5% cheaper than the other stone under consideration

The other stone is the one from a cutter LM works with, thus the "safer" choice. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyMeARaCKSo&feature=youtu.be
Stats:
3.41ct G VS1 - "pinpoints not shown" note
Fluor: Strong Blue
9.61-9.67x5.94
Table: 58%
Depth: 61.6%
Crown: 36.5
Pav: 40.6
GIA X X X
HCA score 2.6 - The steep crown angle is what makes me nervous and falls outside of what I've read online to be ideal.

On paper, the overseas stone (I believe from b2c) seems to be the better choice, both in price and stats. But I'm not very familiar with the effect a steep crown angle has on a stone and have read that some people like steep crown angles, although I'm not sure HOW steep is appropriate. The overseas stone I'd probably have to take a little bit more of a leap of faith when buying, and there's the possibility that the very strong fluor does something weird under some lighting conditions.

Advice? Both are ideal when it comes to clarity, color, and size. Both are in budget (slight price discount on the overseas stone). Go with the safe choice or take a risk on the overseas?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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58,547
With no idealscope or ASET images, the B2C stone is safer from the cut aspect. We normally like to see no higher than 35 crown angle with a 40.6 pavilion angle, but a 35.5 can be okay. I think the other one is more likely to have leakage. But as John Pollard always says, with the rounding of numbers that GIA does, you have no guarantees from the numbers alone. I'd have B2C bring in that stone, do the ASET images, and check the VSBF to make sure it doesn't have negative effects. I like fluoro, too, and I think it has a better chance of being okay since it has great clarity, but I would want them to check it in various lighting to be certain. I would not consider paying that much for a stone with an HCA score of 2.6. It falls out of the category that we usually recommend especially if you can't get an ASET image to see the light return or leakage. The video is pretty worthless considering they don't even show the facet pattern head on.
 

HockeyChick

Rough_Rock
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Nov 6, 2015
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Here's the idealscope for the stone with the steep crown (the 2.6)

I'm afraid I'm not too great at reading these. Do you see the expected amount of leakage here?

_35921.jpg
 

JDDN

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 2, 2015
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2,339
That doesn't look like an IS image, looks more like an image through an H&A viewer.

Can they get an actual IS or a better one if they are saying that's an IS photo? Or an ASET would be even better.

I would be hesitant about a CA of 36.5. Can they look for another with a smaller CA?
 

HockeyChick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
45
Here's what I have on the overseas stone (attached), aside from the GIA report.

It looks like we'll have the opportunity to see this overseas one in person next week without having to pay up front for it, so we're going to go that direction.

I'm going to eliminate the in-house stone with the steep crown and cross my fingers that the G/VVS1 works out when it shows up next week. If it doesn't...I guess I'll just need to keep looking!

I think you're right JDDN about that photo.

indiastonedna.png
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
3,770
HockeyChick,
As a member of the trade I cannot recommend or criticize particular stones. However, I can comment on general aspects of your post. I note that strong fluorescence is a conscious preference in your search. Many people like it, but since it is an attribute that has mixed impacts, is important that consumers be clear on the pros and cons, especially on big expensive stones. In case you haven't already come across it in your research, there is an overview article here in the pricescope knowlege base that covers the various issues involved.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence
 

HockeyChick

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Texas Leaguer|1452204802|3972326 said:
HockeyChick,
As a member of the trade I cannot recommend or criticize particular stones. However, I can comment on general aspects of your post. I note that strong fluorescence is a conscious preference in your search. Many people like it, but since it is an attribute that has mixed impacts, is important that consumers be clear on the pros and cons, especially on big expensive stones. In case you haven't already come across it in your research, there is an overview article here in the pricescope knowlege base that covers the various issues involved.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

Thank you Texas Leaguer! (BTW, hello from Dallas!)

Since I learned about fluor, I've thought that I would want at least some in my stone. Now I certainly never set out to have very strong fluor but I've considered it to be a positive attribute. When I was younger, I had it in my head that I would get a blue diamond ring. I've since decided that was silly and want a classic white stone, but the idea that it'll sometimes have a blue tint in certain lights is appealing. I definitely will want to see it in sunlight before I commit so I'm glad it looks like I'll have the opportunity to see it that way next week (well at least via video).


On a side note, I have a third stone as a backup, in case the stone next week doesn't pan out.
3.5ct H VS1
9.62-9.66x6.03
X X X
Strong Blue
Table: 57%
Depth: 62.5%
CA: 36
PA: 40.6

I suppose I'm running into the steep crown angle again here although HCA is 1.9.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
3,770
HockeyChick|1452207107|3972340 said:
Texas Leaguer|1452204802|3972326 said:
HockeyChick,
As a member of the trade I cannot recommend or criticize particular stones. However, I can comment on general aspects of your post. I note that strong fluorescence is a conscious preference in your search. Many people like it, but since it is an attribute that has mixed impacts, is important that consumers be clear on the pros and cons, especially on big expensive stones. In case you haven't already come across it in your research, there is an overview article here in the pricescope knowlege base that covers the various issues involved.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

Thank you Texas Leaguer! (BTW, hello from Dallas!)

Since I learned about fluor, I've thought that I would want at least some in my stone. Now I certainly never set out to have very strong fluor but I've considered it to be a positive attribute. When I was younger, I had it in my head that I would get a blue diamond ring. I've since decided that was silly and want a classic white stone, but the idea that it'll sometimes have a blue tint in certain lights is appealing. I definitely will want to see it in sunlight before I commit so I'm glad it looks like I'll have the opportunity to see it that way next week (well at least via video).


On a side note, I have a third stone as a backup, in case the stone next week doesn't pan out.
3.5ct H VS1
9.62-9.66x6.03
X X X
Strong Blue
Table: 57%
Depth: 62.5%
CA: 36
PA: 40.6

I suppose I'm running into the steep crown angle again here although HCA is 1.9.
I won't hold it against you that you are from Dallas, if you won't hold it against me that I'm from Houston. I never could quite figure out that rivalry. Maybe Houston has a chip on it's shoulder because of all the success the Cowboys had. Oops, sore subject. sorry :wink2:

You will probably see that blue tint if you look at the stones in direct sunlight. You also may see it if you examine the stones very close to a fluorescent table light such as most jewelers have in their offices. Strong fluorescence also has the effect of making the stones significantly more affordable, which is a good thing!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I don't like the third one, so here's hoping that you'll love the G VVS! The images look promising on that one, although it doesn't show perfect hearts (but I assume you aren't looking for perfect H&A anyway). The first image does appear to be from a hearts and arrows viewer and not an Idealscope. I have to say to them, good grief, an Idealscope and ASET scope are not expensive, so why pass off a H&A viewer image to someone who has asked for IS/ASET?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Texas Leaguer|1452204802|3972326 said:
HockeyChick,
As a member of the trade I cannot recommend or criticize particular stones. However, I can comment on general aspects of your post. I note that strong fluorescence is a conscious preference in your search. Many people like it, but since it is an attribute that has mixed impacts, is important that consumers be clear on the pros and cons, especially on big expensive stones. In case you haven't already come across it in your research, there is an overview article here in the pricescope knowlege base that covers the various issues involved.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

Really excellent article, Bryan!
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 2, 2013
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3,413
diamondseeker2006|1452221007|3972421 said:
I don't like the third one, so here's hoping that you'll love the G VVS! The images look promising on that one, although it doesn't show perfect hearts (but I assume you aren't looking for perfect H&A anyway). The first image does appear to be from a hearts and arrows viewer and not an Idealscope. I have to say to them, good grief, an Idealscope and ASET scope are not expensive, so why pass off a H&A viewer image to someone who has asked for IS/ASET?
Think the H&A viewer image is the stone with HCA score of 2.6 that Leon Mege has proposed. And here's his take on the ASET "gizmo", as he calls it ;))
https://leonmege.com/articles/item/278-aset-angular-spectrum-evaluation-technology
 

HockeyChick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
45
diamondseeker2006|1452221007|3972421 said:
I don't like the third one, so here's hoping that you'll love the G VVS! The images look promising on that one, although it doesn't show perfect hearts (but I assume you aren't looking for perfect H&A anyway). The first image does appear to be from a hearts and arrows viewer and not an Idealscope. I have to say to them, good grief, an Idealscope and ASET scope are not expensive, so why pass off a H&A viewer image to someone who has asked for IS/ASET?

Out of curiosity, what is it that you see wrong with the 3rd?

The fourth backup I have is http://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/Results/D30786048 an H VS1 at 3.5ct. After that, I'm running out of stones that I see as options unless I rearrange my budget or requirements!

I suppose I could always go white flash ACA maybe this one http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3604617.htm They have a few I stones as well but I've been hesitant to go down to I since I saw a 3ct J in person and did not like the color.
 
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